Best "upper" opiate

[Canis aureus]

Some would say that terming "upper" opiate is an oxymoron..

But in fact there are such molecules which truly contain both opiate activity and stimmulating (dopamine, norepinephrine or epinephrine reuptake inhibition). Lefetamine is one. I guess the drug was called santenol... I haven't tested it and have no idea how it works.

One of those commonly used little speedy opiates is oxycodone... but in my opinion it isn't any upper. The rush is bit speedbally, but not really.
Have to add tapentadol to the upper opiates, and drug that has T in it... is Nucynta

 

[kokaino]

I've never gotten a real rush from IV oxycodone, at least nothing like morphine, heroin, or hydromorphone.

 

[MgmtBlue]

I've had speedy effects from both Oxycodone (oral) and Hydromorphone (insufflated).

 

[masada]

Oxycodone for sure. So much so, that I use it to keep me up for work (12 hours security night-shifts.) 3 shots of 20mgs has me going through the night.
However, I have a really screwy metabolism, it's something in my genes. There really aren't any drugs out there that sedate me, even benzos make me more agitated. Only things that really get me drowsy are MASSIVE(as in dangerous) doses of alcohol or opiates.

 

[Pegasus]

kokaino, it is not a misnomer to say that opiates are speedy. Even morphine raises reaction times, which is considered to be a sedating opiate when compared to the thebaine derivitaves:

The cognitive and psychomotor effects of morphine in healthy subjects

Abstract

Ten healthy subjects (four male) of mean age 31 years (range 25-40) took part in a randomized double-blind four-way crossover study to examine the cognitive and psychomotor effects of repeated oral doses of dextropropoxyphene and morphine. Four treatments were compared: dextropropoxyphene napsylate 100 mg, morphine sulphate 10 mg, lorazepam 0.5 mg and placebo. Four doses of each drug were given at 4-h intervals to each subject on four separate study days at least 1 week apart. Cognitive function was assessed using choice reaction time, number vigilance, memory scanning, immediate and delayed word recall, word recognition, picture recognition, critical flicker fusion threshold (CFFT) and subjective measures of alertness, calmness and contentment. Lorazepam impaired the speed of responding on all tasks in which speed was recorded (except digit vigilance) and increased subjective ratings of calmness. Morphine had one major effect, which was to increase the accuracy of responding on the choice reaction time task, at every assessment. Morphine produced some sporadic effects in other tests and an increase in subjective calmness. Dextropropoxyphene impaired performance on choice reaction time and picture recognition. These data show that oral morphine may enhance performance in some measures of cognitive function, whereas dextropropoxyphene (in usual therapeutic doses) seems more likely to cause impairment. Neither opioid has substantial effects on cognition and psychomotor function compared with lorazepam.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10692620

 

[paperfett]

I take 4-6 Roxi 15mg 60% Nasal 40% Tummy. I find this mix of tummy and intranasal decently uplifting. I was also recently prescribed Tramadol and 150mg mixed in is quite nice.

I also noticed Tramadol on its own is better than nothing and is a mood booster for me.

 

[killabud]

low heroin doses give me a strange sorta engery

 

[kokaino]

kokaino, it is not a misnomer to say that opiates are speedy. Even morphine raises reaction times, which is considered to be a sedating opiate when compared to the thebaine derivitaves:

The cognitive and psychomotor effects of morphine in healthy subjects

Abstract

Ten healthy subjects (four male) of mean age 31 years (range 25-40) took part in a randomized double-blind four-way crossover study to examine the cognitive and psychomotor effects of repeated oral doses of dextropropoxyphene and morphine. Four treatments were compared: dextropropoxyphene napsylate 100 mg, morphine sulphate 10 mg, lorazepam 0.5 mg and placebo. Four doses of each drug were given at 4-h intervals to each subject on four separate study days at least 1 week apart. Cognitive function was assessed using choice reaction time, number vigilance, memory scanning, immediate and delayed word recall, word recognition, picture recognition, critical flicker fusion threshold (CFFT) and subjective measures of alertness, calmness and contentment. Lorazepam impaired the speed of responding on all tasks in which speed was recorded (except digit vigilance) and increased subjective ratings of calmness. Morphine had one major effect, which was to increase the accuracy of responding on the choice reaction time task, at every assessment. Morphine produced some sporadic effects in other tests and an increase in subjective calmness. Dextropropoxyphene impaired performance on choice reaction time and picture recognition. These data show that oral morphine may enhance performance in some measures of cognitive function, whereas dextropropoxyphene (in usual therapeutic doses) seems more likely to cause impairment. Neither opioid has substantial effects on cognition and psychomotor function compared with lorazepam.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10692620

Yes, but this is one study and it's flawed in several ways. Regardless, raising reaction time does not mean it has stimulatory effects or that it is somehow less sedating. This study also says that dextropropoxyphene (Darvon, Darvocet) - in therapeutic doses - is more likely to cause impairment than morphine. Do you believe that?

You can't just take a study and say bam here is the proof. You have to consider the conditions the study was done under, how it was conducted, the doses used (which in this case is 10 mg morphine orally, lmao), and through what route - which in this case is oral. Morphine 10 mg oral is NOTHING, I'm surprised placebo wasn't more impairing than the morphine in this case.

 

[SPC123]

Oxycodone is a very stimulating drug. Taken at the right dose it causes a euphoria that makes you more interested in anything you are doing, which is turn leads to more productivity. The mechanism might be different, but the result is the same. When I am on Oxy I am the most popular guy at the party. Full of confidence, talking to everyone, laughing... I have this amazing sense of connection to everyone and everything, like all is right and good in the world, and it shows. When I am not on Oxy, people ask me whats wrong, and wonder if I am depressed or something.

In fact, seeing as it is a CNS depressant if not for the obvious problems and pitfalls, it'd be the perfect drug to treat depression.

Now, if you go overboard with it, yeah, you'll be nodding on like nuts. But that's another issue.

 

[Pegasus]

Yes, but this is one study and it's flawed in several ways. Regardless, raising reaction time does not mean it has stimulatory effects or that it is somehow less sedating. This study also says that dextropropoxyphene (Darvon, Darvocet) - in therapeutic doses - is more likely to cause impairment than morphine. Do you believe that?

You can't just take a study and say bam here is the proof. You have to consider the conditions the study was done under, how it was conducted, the doses used (which in this case is 10 mg morphine orally, lmao), and through what route - which in this case is oral. Morphine 10 mg oral is NOTHING, I'm surprised placebo wasn't more impairing than the morphine in this case.

Fight studies with studies? I want to know where the flaw is, in the control, in the randomization, what?

 

[kokaino]

Fight studies with studies? I want to know where the flaw is, in the control, in the randomization, what?

It's not "flawed" per se, but the doses used and the ROA is problematic. 10 mg morphine orally is nothing, you know this and I know this. The study claims that dextropropoxyphene is more impairing than morphine, do you believe this?

 

[Pegasus]

^I do believe it because the dose of morphine used is low. We do both know that morphine is sedating at higher doses, but what about the less sedating opiates? Morphine is one of the most sedating opiates for sure. Other opiates like oxycodone or buprenorphine can be used at higher relative levels before the sedation occurs.

The fact is that 10mg is an active dose, and at the active dose increased performance at every assessment. I believe that with bupe, for example, a dose of even 2mg would not cause significant sedation but would cause all of the performance-enhancing effects. Basically, this study shows that this enhancement happens, not the exact doses at which it happens.

 

[kokaino]

^I do believe it because the dose of morphine used is low. We do both know that morphine is sedating at higher doses, but what about the less sedating opiates? Morphine is one of the most sedating opiates for sure. Other opiates like oxycodone or buprenorphine can be used at higher relative levels before the sedation occurs.

The fact is that 10mg is an active dose, and at the active dose increased performance at every assessment. I believe that with bupe, for example, a dose of even 2mg would not cause significant sedation but would cause all of the performance-enhancing effects. Basically, this study shows that this enhancement happens, not the exact doses at which it happens.

10 mg morphine orally is nothing. Morphine's oral BA ranges from 10-30%, let's say the subjects got 20% of the dose - so 2 mg of morphine crossed the BBB. The dose didn't increase performance at every assessment - it simply didn't have an effect (so there was no enhancement, there just was no effect from the morphine). Meanwhile, the 100 mg dextropropoxyphene N and the 0.5 mg lorazepam are highly active at those doses, while the morphine was severely underdosed. The doses were not equivalent.

A person who has never had opioids in his/her life wouldn't get 10 mg morphine orally. The starting dose is typically 30 mg PO. 2-10 mg IV/IM.