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Best thing to counteract ADH/water retention effects of MDMA- caffeine/alcohol?

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Harambulus

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Those seem the two obvious ones to prevent the piss jam associated with MDMA.

The trouble is each of those have their own undesirable side effects which may interfere with the 'roll'.

I find if I take caffeine when sober it makes me jittery and paranoid even just one cup of black coffee so I find it mostly unpleasant. I wonder if the mdma would overpower this and just give my roll a bit more perk? anyone know?

Also with alcohol it has the risk of 'fogging' up my roll though I don't intend to take alot so maybe wouldn't be an issue.

I was thinking of drinking maybe one vodka and red bull through the night which would give me a bit of both caffeine and alcohol and otherwise drinking fruit juices.

Would this be a good idea? What are other's experiences adding these related to how each affected your mdma buzz and in what amounts?

Plus any other easily obtained diuretics to counter the water retention effect I may not have thought of?

I am going to be going to a club and want this to be in check cos many times I've been out and the piss stiffness has ruined my night and caused me to come home early cos pissing in public (which is fine when I'm not buzzing) adds to the pressure (esp. with the paranoia of bouncers coming in every second to check if you;re taking drugs) causing me to not be able to urinate till I come home and run the tap and other elabourate techniques. So I don't want it to put a dampener on my night.

As I recall when I have drunk quite a bit then it has kept it in check but also fogged up the buzz so I don't want too much of anything which will wreck my buzz while still being able to piss.
 
Taken from the MDMA Essential Guide....

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79027

D. Why do I have trouble urinating?
MDMA promotes the release of anti-diuretic hormone (ADH). ADH is responsible for regulating urination. If more ADH is released, urination will not be as forthcoming. An excellent thread on this from Health Q&A:
Click to expand...

So it doesn't matter what you drink or how much you drink....MDMA will make it hard for you to piss.

you could take some form of diuretic to countercat the production of the ADH but aside from that you are out of luck if MDMA makes it hard to piss...I am sure you could drink enough to overcome the effects but that is dangerous in its own right. All you can do is keep trying to piss and eventually you will...or just wait until the comedown and piss like a race hourse.

caffine makes a roll jittery...if there is too much caffine it can be uncomfortable. Alcohol and MDMA is a tricky bit too because too much alcohol and you are risking blackouts...as well as many of the other issues associated with alcohol alone.
 
i made the thread precisely to talk about diuretics to counter the ADH effect.

So I think you are exaggerating by saying 'it doesn't matter what you drink or how much you drink'.

I'm sure it certainly would matter what you drank and how much if it were a diuretic.

I will try myself tonight and see.
 
Yeah...I just skimmed the thread and thought it was another "I can't piss while rolling" thread. I didn't know that caffine was a diuretic TBH. I wonder if there is maybe a suplement at GNC that would help.

Just be carefull about the alcohol...you want to be able to remeber what happened so you can tell us :)
 
I honestly like my rolls to have a bit more perk to em. So caffiene wouldn't bother me one bit... However, if you get jittery off 1 cup of coffee, then you might not like it as well.

As a rule, I never drink alcohol before/during a roll. But a single vodka/redbull should be fine. Most clubs seem to like to weakly mix their drinks anyways, so unless you are a total lightweight with alcohol, I don't see the harm in 1 drink. (especially if you're drinking way more water/juice afterwards)

However, I'm pretty sure that red bull relies more on b vitamins and other nutrients for energy rather than just caffiene.

I would be weary of taking an OTC diuretic pill, I've seen people get sick as can be off of them and it can really throw your fuilds out of whack.

With all that being said... I don't know what else to suggest, I don't really have a problem peeing whilst rolling!
 
matt2012 said:
Taken from the MDMA Essential Guide....

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79027

D. Why do I have trouble urinating?
MDMA promotes the release of anti-diuretic hormone (ADH). ADH is responsible for regulating urination. If more ADH is released, urination will not be as forthcoming.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

ADH reduces the amount of urine PRODUCED, but usually when people are asking about trouble urinating their bladder is full...they just can't get it to empty. In that case (where there's plenty of urine to pee, just trouble getting it out) the problem is over-stimulation of the muscles that normally hold back urine. If these muscles (urinary sphincters) won't relax, urine can't get out, and MDMA causes muscles (including these) to tense up.

Generally taking your time and relaxing will allow you to pee. (Try doing something boring in your head, like multiplying numbers.)
 
I found a semi solution to this (I think at least).

Taking a hearty dose of 5-htp on the comedown seems to stop the flood of urine.

Now I still need to piss and can find it hard but 5-htp seems to soak up the mdma somewhat.

It also seems to take off the 'mashy' effect of mdma when you've taken too much.

It also largly gets rid of the comedown for the large part in my experience.

So I say 5-htp is the wonder drug in that respect although some people poo poo it saying it doesn't do anything for them and I am just spouting placebo but that has been my consistent experience.

Like I'll still have to pee and not be able to sometimes (I think this is dose dependant- more mdma = harder to piss, not surprise there) but my bladder doesn't seem to flood to EXTREME discomfort as it would had I not taken the 5-htp perhaps cos it is having an effect at curbing mdma's effects and insodoing also slowly diminishing the anti urinating effect.

Speculative yes, but those have been my experiences.
 
Green tea is a natural diuretic but I dont know many bars clubs that sell it - I've never had it to the extent that it causes problems though. Maybe you should try to relax when your rolling at home so peeing doesnt become such a issue.
 
TheDEA.org said:
ADH reduces the amount of urine PRODUCED, but usually when people are asking about trouble urinating their bladder is full...they just can't get it to empty. In that case (where there's plenty of urine to pee, just trouble getting it out) the problem is over-stimulation of the muscles that normally hold back urine. If these muscles (urinary sphincters) won't relax, urine can't get out, and MDMA causes muscles (including these) to tense up.

Generally taking your time and relaxing will allow you to pee. (Try doing something boring in your head, like multiplying numbers.)
Click to expand...


^this!!
 
Drink cranberry juice. 100% pure (you can dilute it in 7up, sprite, or water if its too bitter), NOT FROM CONCENTRATE. Drink 2oz then 2oz 30 minutes later. You will be able to piss.
 
Care to indulge me on the science behind this cranberry theory?

I know my mum and grandma would take it for cystitis so dunno if it's related :)?
 
Last edited:
TheDEA.org said:
ADH reduces the amount of urine PRODUCED, but usually when people are asking about trouble urinating their bladder is full...they just can't get it to empty. In that case (where there's plenty of urine to pee, just trouble getting it out) the problem is over-stimulation of the muscles that normally hold back urine. If these muscles (urinary sphincters) won't relax, urine can't get out, and MDMA causes muscles (including these) to tense up.

Generally taking your time and relaxing will allow you to pee. (Try doing something boring in your head, like multiplying numbers.)
Click to expand...

Thank you TheDEA.org...

Filing this away so that I can plagerize you in the future :)
 
MagickalKat777 said:
Drink cranberry juice. 100% pure (you can dilute it in 7up, sprite, or water if its too bitter), NOT FROM CONCENTRATE. Drink 2oz then 2oz 30 minutes later. You will be able to piss.
Click to expand...

Hey man,

I looked all over town today, well in the supermarket and a couple health food shops, not EVERY shop.


The food stores only sold cranberry from concentrate. It would say like 5% concentrate for cheap ones up to 25% concentrate for the more expensive ones. The other ingredients seemed to just be water and sugar, no 'pure unconcentrated cranberry'.

So I go to the health food store and they had natural 100% concentrated cranberry will this still be ok? I thought although you said concentrate is no good it is pure 100%? so will it be ok? what is wrong with concentrate? As I said all the others were concentrate too but just mixed with sugar and water or other fruit juices so I thought as they were all concentrate that the 100% pure one would be the best of the bunch.

It notes -support of the urinary system as one of its effects so hopefully it will still do the job...
 
When I have a beach day planned and want to look the most shredded with my shirt off, I pre-load a few days in advance with dandelion root extract. It makes me piss a fuckton because it's reducing the subcutaneous layer of water.

I honestly don't think that fucking with diuretics while on MDMA is a good idea. Millions of people use ecstasy without worrying too much about pissing, they just regulate their water intake and have a just dandy time.
 
TheDEA.org said:
ADH reduces the amount of urine PRODUCED, but usually when people are asking about trouble urinating their bladder is full...they just can't get it to empty. In that case (where there's plenty of urine to pee, just trouble getting it out) the problem is over-stimulation of the muscles that normally hold back urine. If these muscles (urinary sphincters) won't relax, urine can't get out, and MDMA causes muscles (including these) to tense up.
Click to expand...

This stuck in my head last night when I had the same problem and it gave me a lightbulb moment that taking a large dose of magnesium may help this. I always take a gram of magnesium before rolling but likely it's effects would have diminished to a large degree by the time it comes that the piss buildup becomes a real issue- ie on the comedown.

Prior to that I had tried an elabourate 'routine' of flicking one hand of my fingers together rapidly while sticking my tongue out as far as it would reach (I read this once in some chinese sexual reflexology thing for growing your dick lol, but seems to help a little for this situ) although these techniques I found kind of effective; while helpful for mild piss jam effects they would not help that much when fully jammed.

Some people say just wait it out but the main nuisance is that when coming down, even if I take diazepam or zopiclone to help me sleep I'll be really mentally tired dozed out wanting to nod off but won't be able to get off cos every frigging second I have to piss and at that usually it's a real herculean effort to produce any urine. So every 10 minutes I have to return to the toilet usually in a futile attempt to release this buildup of liquid which continues unabated until the early hours of the morning til it finally starts to subside.

So being 'backed up' urine wise i find the main cause for me not being able to sleep after rolling even with the help of downers (rather than any residual 'headfuck' as my mind is really ready for sleep but my body is wanting to illuminate this foreign substance as it's main priority.

Anyway the lightbulb moment came related to aboveposters comment and remembering that magnesium, being a very effective solution for jaw grinding related issues, due to it's muscle relaxant issues might cause to be an effective remedy to this.

Also to note I always take 1 gram of magnesium before dosing and notice that I am usually able to piss without too much trouble at the start of my rolls. I previously put this down to it just being that the muscle tensing effect of the mdma hadn't taken effect so much yet but now I'm guessing it may be due to the magnesiums effects and later in the night, as i don't resupplement then those said effects may diminish. Also the dose may just not be high enough to diminish effects later on so a mega dose must be tested in a controlled manner to examine these issues.

So with that in mind I tried dosing another large dose of 1gram of magnesium during the peak of my pissjam episode last which seemed to help alot. This piss seemed to start flowing more naturally again after that. I can't say if this is placebo for certain yet as I would have to try it more on my next trips but suddenly pissing became freer rather than a tortuous struggle as it had been before.

That is also one of the bad things about this water retention thing I think. The body wants to piss it out to excrete the drug and thus comedown allowing sleep and normalcy to follow but the water retention is preventing it from being eliminated from the body so I think this a pertinent issue to find a remedy for.

I also read recently that high amounts of vitamin c will act as a natural diuretic (as well as the other pruported benefits of 'soaking up' mdma free radicals and such, but I had stopped preloading on vit c a while back thinking it was having no effect so I will also try that again.

I think magnesium is gonna be the big one cos it proved promising results last night but have to test it more in future to know for sure.
 
Scratch above idea. must have been a false positive as I took like 3 grams of it last night to no avail on the pissing front but rather greeted with extreme diarrhea through the next day.
 
100% pure not from concentrate cranberry juice definitely exists - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DU852...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0002DU852

I don't remember the brand I used to use when I was rolling - found it at the Vitamin Cottage here in CO... But every time I couldn't piss, I would make sure to drink it and it worked. I could handle it without diluting it. My grandmother of all people actually suggested this, full well knowing I was rolling (which she does NOT approve of) and it worked quite well.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
100% pure not from concentrate cranberry juice definitely exists - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DU852...e=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0002DU852

I don't remember the brand I used to use when I was rolling - found it at the Vitamin Cottage here in CO... But every time I couldn't piss, I would make sure to drink it and it worked. I could handle it without diluting it. My grandmother of all people actually suggested this, full well knowing I was rolling (which she does NOT approve of) and it worked quite well.
Click to expand...
I will have to look around for this. If it works for me when I'm having trouble peeing, it should work for anyone...I am notoriously the person in the group making several bathroom visits toward the end of the night, and not being able to pee in a single one.

So far the only remedy I have found is limiting water intake and lowering MDMA dosage. Of course, the latter will also diminish good effects, too. Calming/distraction techniques used to work, but lately it seems that my bladder has figured out all my tricks. Caffeine may or may not help the OP, but it's worth noting that I usually have caffeine when I roll, and its diuretic properties never seem to help me.
 
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