N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
Best compound to abort an LSD experience
dbailey11
Bluelighter
I started a thread about benzos and tripping a while back. Benzos won't stop a trip but will dampen it if taken in a high enough dose. For a true trip abortion, you would have to take an anti-psychotic like risperdal or abilify.
johanneschimpo
Bluelighter
zophen said:
Agreed 100%. Being more educated and well-connected than most of my buddies, I would always roll with benzos, and when I didn't have those, anti-psychs, "just in case."
I never had to use them.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Anti-psychotics will stop a trip because they effectively replace the chemical psychedelic at the receptor site. Benzos will dampen the trip since they will (if in a large enough dose) take away ALL anxiety and decrease visual activity and body feeling to a large degree.
dbailey11 said:
I've seen this in action, its pretty amazing to see someone freaking out and then take 2 or 3 bars of xanax and everything is fine and dandy.
Jamshyd
Bluelight Crew
Antipsychotics are a very nasty bunch, but seroquel may have saved my life the second time I experienced amphetamine psychosis.
If it can abort psychotic breaks, then I'm pretty sure it can abort psychedelics.
Although I personally would prefer to use a dose of benzo just enough to take away the panic so that I could work through whatever it was that disturbed me. I do not find benzos change much of the trip besides making one less anxious, although I have never taken a high dose of benzos when tripping.
Chronik Fatigue
Ex-Bluelighter
TheLoveBandit said:
I know experienced users who have managed to get into psychotic and potentially violent states from LSD, it can be unpredictable, this sort of info is priceless.
fryingsquirrel
Bluelighter
Dunno, but I can personally attest it will abort an obscenely large dose of 2ce.
time traveler said:
dbailey11
Bluelighter
haribo1 said:
Risperidone is the generic name for Risperdal.
Jamshyd said:
I agree 100%. A moderate dose of a benzo will just take away any anxiety that could transform an otherwise positive experience into a unneccesarily negative one. I also don't think the visual or other mental effects are dampened as most people assume (unless it is a substantially large dose).
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
All antipsychotics should work (5HT2a antagonists should be best), but the only ones I've got first hand experience of seeing doing the job are thioridazine (Mellaril) & chlorpromazine (Largactil). Thioridazine worked very quickly and very effectively; got some prescribed many years ago (for any potential hypomania turning into full blown mania). Never used them for that, but hung onto the tablets just in case...
Matt the Raver
Bluelighter
fastandbulbous said:
So... if 5HT2A agonism causes hallucinations, then what happens if you just do antagonists......I'm presuming it has a sedating effect, but maybe without the tardive dyskinesia.
Also how do 5HT2A antagonists compare with ketamine, as I suspect both inhibit prefrontal cortical activity.
and what happens when you mix ketamine and acid?
MattPsy
Bluelighter
^ You just feel zombified and yuck.
Not fun at all.
Ketamine + LSD = madness. If you're looking for something strongly immersive well, this is the combo...
I have no idea how htr2A antagonists compare with ketamine in regards to the way you mention.
Reminisant B
Greenlighter
Has there ever been a selective 5ht2a antagonist in clinical practice or tested in humans?
Would be interesting to know the effects - am talking about purely 5ht2a - most atypical anti-psychotics also antagonise D2 receptors. The other ones I can think of have other non-5ht2a effects as well - mirtazapine, trazadone(?)
on reading up its seems they all have other properties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-HT2A_receptor
"Other antagonists are MDL-100907 (prototype of another new series of 5-HT2A antagonists) and Cyproheptadine. APD125, a new sleeping pill recently developed by Arena Pharmaceuticals and currently in Phase 2 trials, acts as a selective 5-HT2A antagonist."wikipedia
although was interesting to see cyproheptadine listed as 5ht2a antagonist - seeing as thats available OTC and risperidone etc isn't - wonder if that would abort an LSD experience - my guess its probably not strong enough.
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Splatt
Ex-Bluelighter
Risperdal would work. Zyprexa works too.
I think benzos are better though becausse when you want to abort a LSD trip its normally on the overwhelming come up or peak, then when you abort it you wish you didn't.. valium, xanax, clonazepam etc.. just smooth it out.
realm
Bluelighter
Alcohol has worked well for me in the past. Not to totally terminate the trip but just to make you more calm and relaxed. If you get scared just go watch some comedy and drink a few beers you should calm down. Just know before you take it that you may not be able to stop it, and always remember one rule. It's very simple in theory but not so easy in practice. DON'T PANIC. As long as you remember not to panic no matter how scary things get you should be safe. Hell you may even learn something about yourself. Don't fight it.
And to me the most important thing to remember when taking acid is: Don't take it just to have some fun. LSD is a tool to be respected. If you have fun great! But don't fight those moments of self-realization it will hurt you in the end.
Survived Abortion
Bluelighter
For some people (with anxiety disorders etc. who still wish to explore the realms which tryptamines open up for you) the 'Just try to stay calm, listen to some music' thing simply does not control a psychedelic panic attack. In this state it is essentially a panic attack with psychotic elements. Having a substance on hand which will either diminish the anxiety or provide the 'Emergency Exit' can be useful for a small proportion of people who have ill considered their decision to take the trip, and took it based purely on the desire to get f**ked up rather than explore the higher levels of ones own conciousness.
Olanzapine is excellent. The pharmacological profile says it all, and I have terminated a friends horrific and violent trip with this pharm. He was not ready, and therefore his base paranoia manifested as aggressiveness, which is good to no-one and must be stopped.
However, I do completely agree with Realm that for individuals exploring a trip for it's transcendent qualities on the teachings of links between conciousness and quantum mechanics etc. it can be a disastarous thing to abort a bad trip in this way. I myself have been to the ER on mushrooms and they gave me nothing, instead they chose to keep popping their head round the curtain and laugh at me for having no eyebrows:D ; and I am very glad for it, as the trip came to a resolution which, if aborted during the traumatic period, would probably have left me with severe PTSD. The afterglow from a bad trip can be fantastic, and the lessons learned can be extremely rewarding.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
LSD & other psychedelics are not the same as say amphetamine, morphine, barbiturates etc where you pretty much know what you're going to get after taking them. While neurotic side effects (anxiety etc) are best dealt with by either talking to the person or using an anxiolytic (eg diazepam) and letting the experience play itself out, psychotic breaks do need to be stopped in their tracks as generally, the longer they go on, the more long lasting psychological problems they cause.
I've seen plenty of people get horrible anxiety with psychedelics (had some myself, mostly with psilocybin if I'm honest) and I don't think I ever considered going for the antipsychotics like thioridazine or chlorpromazine; the couple of psychotic breaks I've seen though are something totally different - in one case I got the person to swallow some thioridazine (yes I know it's dangerous, but at the time the mental state was a greater danger) and it all worked out well. With the other full psychotic break, there was no such medication to hand and it went horribly wrong for everybody concerned (the other people involved - me included - suffered extreme acute anxiety from watching the person lose it and being unable to do anything to help ).
Knowing what's a neurotic symptom and what is floridly psychotic is difficult at the best of times, but is much more difficult if you're under the influence yourself. Once you've seen a psychotic break, you know the difference (although as I said, if you're tripping yourself the lines can get very blurred), but until then, you're basically just guessing and hoping you're right. Giving someone access to psychedelics is a fucking huge responsibility and can weigh heavy on your shoulders sometimes - which is why I shudder when I hear of irresponsible fuckwits with a load of psychedelics in their possession
I've seen people abort with trazodone and olanzapine (the first via oral route, the latter through sublingual administration). worked pretty well it seemed. and me... well i went through hell in some trips, but never aborted. strangely enough, when i had antipsychotics at hand i never felt the need to abort even if it was difficult. it only turnt out hellish when i was without potential relief in chemical form. that said, i think its a very bad idea to abort a trip because of anxiety, but in certain cases with psychotic reactions it might be the way to go. still, be prepared for the aftermath. often it might not even become apparent what damage was caused by the experience... im thinking of psychosomatic problems, depression, anxiety. psychedelics are not meant only for fun, eventhough this can work out for quite some time until the user finds himself in a place he doesnt wanna be in (metaphorically spoken).
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My personal preference (were it available and if I were to give a damn) would be to have an extra high dose of LSD with 2mg of xanax.
The purpose of LSD would be lost if you were to take a zyprexa or seroquel. Also, the long half lives of these drugs make them disagreeable.
I have taken 5-ht2a antagonists and the results are irritation and anger and sapped strength.
^^^ Actually, olanzapine (zyprexa) and seroquel both have somewhat short half-lives for anti-psychotics. Plus, both have been shown to raise blood serum prolactin levels much less than drugs like resperidone, haldol, etc. FYI, prolactin imbalances are the worst possible side-effect from short-term neuroleptic use in men (bitch-tits).
Also I might add, Zyprexa has been a real lifesaver before when I was having a horrible trip from psilocybin. I will never trip again without having some (or seroquel) on-hand, and preferably some benzos for simple anxiety.
