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Bernie Sanders

Droppersneck said:
I see it more like youth, lack of experience, delusion, feelings of being a victim, lack of ambition, addiction, poverty, desire for something for nothing, blaming the rich for ones problems, unemployment, etc etc is the reasoning. I know you at least have a decent job but the vast majority fit my model.
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I don't think anyone in this thread that supports bernie fits that model. I am familiar with a lot of the posters itt and most have jobs and personally i work hard for what i have. Some of us may be prone to some substance abuse but we are on bl. don't act like you are any better. sometimes i think you might have something useful to add if you werent trolling so hard all the time.
 
Droppersneck said:
Lol nobody said we run In a purest system. The stimulus was of the Keynesian train of thought. I despise pseudo intellectual babble it is what liberal ideologues use as barriers to entry thus making their opinions seem right and nondebatble. Sanders has a good heart but is a loon that has always been in the public sector and doesn't know how things work yet sees these shitty Scandinavian countries have a certain government structure and wants to mimick it ignoring our entire culture. Most of his supporters are people with little real knowledge/ life experience for a reason. Growing the public sector never works, but since they use devisive arguments to tug on the heart strings of fools the illogical is excepted as plausible IMHO
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What do you mean by this? Our entire culture in the states is many cultures, most of which are not represented by our current government. What Sanders intends to do is level the playing field so more people than the most wealthy will flourish.
 
GenericMind said:
I'm curious where you're getting this idea that that's how these people are. Because it sure doesn't seem to match what I see with my own eyes here in America.
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indeed.

i mean, how would you even begin to measure "but the vast majority fit my model". many statements that come out of droppers' mouth are pretty good examples of the 'no true scotsman' logical fallacy...

alasdair
 
Droppersneck said:
...these shitty Scandinavian countries...
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yep. it sucks living in a country where everybody is intelligent, there's health care for everybody, infant mortality is among the lowest in the world, homicide is low, and work/life balance is a cultural priority.

what a shitty place to live.

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
yep. it sucks living in a country where everybody is intelligent, there's health care for everybody, infant mortality is among the lowest in the world, homicide is low, and work/life balance is a cultural priority.

what a shitty place to live.

alasdair
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Yeah sometimes I think people like Droppy on the right who are working class and are in DIRE need of some help are against us turning into a Scandinavian system because they think one day they'll be billionaires and they don't want some stinky filthy irresponsible poor man (the subject himself at the present moment) to get their tax money.
 
To be completely honest, I think it's unfair for leftists to assume that any person who opposes higher taxes (or any tax at all) does so out of greed. Understand that Sanders' economics are utilitarian in spirit. And that's fine, but I don't think it's fair for leftists to claim that anyone who does not believe that utilitarianism, or really any form of collectivisim, is an adequate theory to use for economic policy necessarily must not have a good heart, or does not operate with good intentions. Do a lot of fiscal conservatives formulate their opinions based on the emotion of greed? Obviously. But not all...

I have tons of very intelligent and very gentle/nice/kind friends who reject utilitarianism, some because they don't think that consequences can be properly quantified, others because they see morality as intrinsic to individual actions. From this comes a lot of the "self-ownership" philosophies that you'll see made in libertarian/anarchist circles, leading into points like "taxation violates our non-aggression principle," "equality of opportunity is more important than equality of outcome" and so on. They have Aristotle defending them, Kant defending them, and plenty of others from more recent times. Right/wrong exist in actions themselves before the consequences of those actions... Point being, it is not an economic rejection to things like taxes driven by greed but an ethical one based on their understanding of morality.

I think you can have good-intending utilitarians (Sanders) and bad ones (Hitler), just like you can have good-intending deontologists (such as the spirit of the argument "I don't care of addiction goes up if drugs are legalised because letting people make that decision is most important" that you see all over BL) and bad-intending ones (looking at the Church here...). I just wish liberals would be a bit more open to philosophical relativism and how it can influence one's fiscal beliefs regardless of things like individual wealth, employment sector or opportunity.

Sorry for the rant. I'm not writing to any specific person around here, but just reacting to general sentiment I feel. I just think that if we're going to jump all over a guy for making assumptions around here ("Sanders supporters are lazy, young, etc"), then we should try and avoid making assumptions about Sanders rejectors ("he rejects Sanders economics because he is greedy").
 
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RedLeader, although you make some very good points and I have to say I agree with the vast majority of what you've said, I know from experience that a good slice of the poorer right wing supporters who support tax cuts to the wealthy etc ARE reacting out of greed, whether or not they are conscious of it.

There is also an element of racism to it. Although Caucasians make up the majority in numbers of welfare recipients (simply because of the math), right wingers on the lower economic brackets don't like to pay their taxes precisely because (and I'm quoting a drunken right winger I was arguing about this with at a bar not too long ago), "I don't want any goddamn n*ggers or sp*cks getting my tax money in welfare and spending it on drugs".

Its a real thing, and its out there. We're talking about a party that is brimming with both open and closeted racists, most of whom do not possess the faculties to make accurate judgments about good fiscal policy.

Edit: I don't intend to imply a false dilemma here that either they are out of greed or aren't; there is likely a gradient of many shades in between. But that is the ugly truth for a good number of the right wing population, and I know it from having heard it from their own mouths.
 
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Phil.McKeer said:
Yeah sometimes I think people like Droppy on the right who are working class and are in DIRE need of some help are against us turning into a Scandinavian system because they think one day they'll be billionaires and they don't want some stinky filthy irresponsible poor man (the subject himself at the present moment) to get their tax money.
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I think this is it, we one day want the opportunity to be great, and Anf get all the same not having had to work for it isn't the answer. I was in Canada for the small start up tech company I work for getting it off the ground. Well we are farther than that at this point. Anyway I could be sitting high up in this company with shares in the company. I don't want to be like in Canada where people are getting bent over by their massive government and asking for more bc they so not want to offend anyone. I was eating with this really smart guy up there that ran a small successful company he was a huge trump fan to my surprise but he whispered as he told me this. People that work hard and produce have a different mentality from the sheep and I'm not sure one group can recognize the others as a legitimate point of view tbh
 
GenericMind said:
I went door to door today with a local Bernie group here and one dude told me "I'm a Republican get the fuck off my property!" lmao
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Hillary's excellent work on New York gun laws just might have saved you from behind shot. #Hillary2016 =D

Phil.McKeer said:
There is also an element of racism to it. Although Caucasians make up the majority in numbers of welfare recipients (simply because of the math), right wingers on the lower economic brackets don't like to pay their taxes precisely because (and I'm quoting a drunken right winger I was arguing about this with at a bar not too long ago), "I don't want any goddamn n*ggers or sp*cks getting my tax money in welfare and spending it on drugs".
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Ya, I mean this is textbook divide and conquer. Has been fooling plebs for millennia, but has worked especially well on the American working and welfare classes over the past few decades. Republicans love it because it helps them retain fiscal dominance. A lot of democrats love it because they are closet Republicans and this keeps the people too distracted to see it.

Edit: I don't intend to imply a false dilemma here that either they are out of greed or aren't; there is likely a gradient of many shades in between. But that is the ugly truth for a good number of the right wing population, and I know it from having heard it from their own mouths.
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Ya, I think in a broader sense that human beings have both an innate sense of greed and of compassion. People go through life experiences and often one comes out more than the other as a result...
 
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For some reason, with such pivotal stuff with New York going on right now, a Jean Paul Marat quote came to mind:

“Don’t be deceived when they tell you things are better now. Even if there’s no poverty to be seen because the poverty’s been hidden. Even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which industries foist on you and even if it seems to you that you never had so much, that is only the slogan of those who still have much more than you. Don’t be taken in when they paternally pat you on the shoulder and say that there’s no inequality worth speaking of and no more reason to fight because if you believe them they will be completely in charge in their marble homes and granite banks from which they rob the people of the world under the pretence of bringing them culture. Watch out, for as soon as it pleases them they’ll send you out to protect their gold in wars whose weapons, rapidly developed by servile scientists, will become more and more deadly until they can with a flick of the finger tear a million of you to pieces.”


The Revolution never ends. Go Bernie!
 
You're such a goose, droppers.
Too butthurt to comment when Bernie's supporters are optimistic, first to jump on the bandwagon when people start feeling it could go the other way.

You have no class whatsoever.
 
It amazes me how Bernie has dick riders from other countries. That dude represents an entire entitlement seeking mooching class that is the result of a generation and not necessarily any one countries politics. Paid off my student loans last week. Feels good man and to boot Im using my degree at my job legitimately.
 
Droppersneck said:
It amazes me how Bernie has dick riders from other countries. That dude represents an entire entitlement seeking mooching class that is the result of a generation and not necessarily any one countries politics. Paid off my student loans last week. Feels good man and to boot Im using my degree at my job legitimately.
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whats ya major bro?
 
All you Bernie supporters realize that he wants to tax the "rich" at 90%, right? 90 fucking percent. Do you realize that if you tax the "rich" at 100%, meaning they give it all to you for you brain dead fucks, that it won't even cover ONE entitlement for 3 years? So please explain to me how taxing the job creators. to the point that they are in the welfare line, makes sense? You are damn right they are moving their $$ out of the country! Bernie supporters don't understand basic fucking economics, yep that's you, mr you know who.
Raise minimum wage to $15? Watch the jobs shrink and the businesses close. Of course, that is the goal isn't it? Less people working means more people are dependent on the government which is the ultimate goal of Bernie. Allow me to give a Sesame Street example. If you own a burger joint and everything stays consistent except payroll what will happen? Cost of goods sold are the same, utilities are the same, rent/ mortgage is the same. You are running on tight margines because owning a business is tough. You need to staff your burger joint with 6 employees plus yourself for lunch hour. $7.25 min wage X 6 employees= $43.50 for the hour. You charge $3.50 for a burger. That doesn't include the ADDITIONAL COST of payroll tax, workmans comp etc because I don't think many of you Bernie supporters could understand advanced math. Back to the burger joint. You have an operating expense of $43.50 for the hour and Bernie raises minimum wage to $15 an hour. You have 2 choices to keep your profit margins similar. You can cut the staff in half to 3 employees for the hour or you can charge $7 for your burger. Either 3 people lose their job or you have to price your burger out of reach of your target customer. Neither option is good.
The posters above are correct. Bernie supporters are either idiots or young kids that are idiots.
For the record. I have a BS in Accounting and I make $165,000 a year, my wife has a BS in nursing and also makes over $100 K a year.
 
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