Benzos Benzos for anxiety?

[zagor]

If klonopin and ativan don't work any longer due to tolerance can any other benzos help for anxiety?

 

[zagor]

bump

 

[kokaino]

Try temazepam, triazolam or nitrazepam

 

[Anonymous Dissident]

I switched to alprazolam from klonopin years ago and my daily alprazolam still does the job. If possible, try to get on xr alprazolam. If you get on the xr, there's no issue with moving to a shorter acting benzodiazepine from a longer acting one.

Alprazolam has a marked antidepressant effect that I don't get from klonopin or valium. I also find it to be significantly less sedating overall, but just as effective as an anxiolytic.

 

[HoldBack]

It depends on your body chemistry but probably definitely no.

Chronic dosing of Benzos commonly leads to the paradoxical effect of anxiety. Benzos are not good for the treatment of anxiety long-term and when inappropriately rx’d for that purpose, kpin will yield the best results anecdotally.

you can switch to a new benzo and get a day or two of relief but it will not last more than a couple days before subsiding.

I believe a couple ssri’s are indicated for treatment of generalized anxiety disorder.

I would personally recommend moderate doses of gabapentin off label.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hi Zagor! I am sorry to hear you're in this situation. It can be a very difficult thing to remedy. The most responsible thing to do would be to not look for different/stronger drugs. You should think about how to work with what you've got.

When you become very tolerant to Benzodiazepines it's common for to report a variety of negative psychological symptoms, including just "not feeling it anymore". When this happens, you dont want to increase dosage, but find a way to get that one-half effectiveness back.

There are several options you can try, most of them will involve some pain. We can help you through it though. Im here, the community is here and we have a lot of helpful information based upon our shared experiences. We won't let you go unless you want us to. Even then, you will probably require a restraining order. I just care that much

The first step I think, is to experiment with some very, very small dose reductions. Pills only come in certain strengths, but you can use volumetric dosing methods to make the drops even smaller. A lot of people use this method to induct with Buprenorphine. The minuscule amounts taken allow the user to make decisions that aren't so scary or potentially wicked unpleasant.

I'm not saying you need to give up Benzo's, but I do believe that the key to a renewed benefit from these drugs will inevitably require a dose reduction, even just temporarily.

Could you please let us know your current dosing regimen, let us know what other drugs you use or have access to that can help mitigate the withdrawal symptoms and it would be helpful to know a little more about you.

Just let us know if you want to learn more. We can help literally every step of the way. It's not an awesome experience, but if we do it right, it doesn't need to be hellish.

 

[Synaps3]

Personally, when I tried benzos for a brief period, I hated them because they made me retarded and slow. I eventually used propranolol and 2m2b. A lower dose of each so it doesn't lower BP too much. I found this made me impervious to anxiety. After about a year my anxiety level went down on it's own. I don't think taking 2m2b for a very long period is very healthy, but if you're only taking like 1-2ml, it can't be too bad. If you think ur going to need it for years, then maybe only take the propranolol.

 

[zagor]

Hi Zagor! I am sorry to hear you're in this situation. It can be a very difficult thing to remedy. The most responsible thing to do would be to not look for different/stronger drugs. You should think about how to work with what you've got.

When you become very tolerant to Benzodiazepines it's common for to report a variety of negative psychological symptoms, including just "not feeling it anymore". When this happens, you dont want to increase dosage, but find a way to get that one-half effectiveness back.

There are several options you can try, most of them will involve some pain. We can help you through it though. Im here, the community is here and we have a lot of helpful information based upon our shared experiences. We won't let you go unless you want us to. Even then, you will probably require a restraining order. I just care that much

The first step I think, is to experiment with some very, very small dose reductions. Pills only come in certain strengths, but you can use volumetric dosing methods to make the drops even smaller. A lot of people use this method to induct with Buprenorphine. The minuscule amounts taken allow the user to make decisions that aren't so scary or potentially wicked unpleasant.

I'm not saying you need to give up Benzo's, but I do believe that the key to a renewed benefit from these drugs will inevitably require a dose reduction, even just temporarily.

Could you please let us know your current dosing regimen, let us know what other drugs you use or have access to that can help mitigate the withdrawal symptoms and it would be helpful to know a little more about you.

Just let us know if you want to learn more. We can help literally every step of the way. It's not an awesome experience, but if we do it right, it doesn't need to be hellish.

Hi KF. I will explain the situation to you. It is not about quitting klonopin but about sleep disorders. My brother has been on dexedrine and is weaning off. One of the major issues is that he can't get any restorative sleep. He can try to take stuff to help him fall asleep but he won't get enough sleep no matter how long he sleeps. That can be very dangerous. Ativan and klonopin stopped working for him long ago and benzos would help him the most in his current situation. We don't know is depression caused it or it caused depression but Im trying to help him find something to kill insomnia.

 

[rave23]

I eventually used propranolol and 2m2b.

I found propranolol to be excellent for physical anxiety and the symptoms thereof. It did very little to alleviate psychological anxiety however. Typical physical symptoms like tremors, sweating, racing heart, jumpy etc. were completely stopped by propranolol, which was nice. It didn't remove the mental anxiety however. It's just that I wasn't feeling it the way I would without it. Some people seek relief from psychological anxiety, and for that benzos work excellent (for a while, temporary in nature), until they eventually end up making it worse.

IMHO if you're suffering from anxiety, taking benzos long term is a self-defeating strategy. You'll wind up taking larger and larger doses, while you're going to feel worse and worse in between doses, creating a serious hen and egg situation. Probably best to slowly get off the benzos all together, and seek for alternate means to deal with the root of the cause. Benzos still have a place for things like accute panic attacks, but if you're suffering those several times a day every day, then taking a benzo is akin to putting a band-aid onto a gunshot wound

 

[d896629]

Chronic dosing of Benzos commonly leads to the paradoxical effect of anxiety. Benzos are not good for the treatment of anxiety long-term and when inappropriately rx’d for that purpose, kpin will yield the best results anecdotally.

Excellent post. Benzodiazepines are DEFINITELY to be used on as "AS NEEDED" basis.

I had 1mg of Xanax last Thursday night, and another ~0.7mg Xanax on Friday at 5:25pm.

I want to do five days in a row of Xanax to basically sleep through five days of P.A.W.S [post-acute withdrawal syndrome, from opiates], and I realize it is taking a small risk, but I strongly believe I am no longer addicted to opiates, because I took Suboxone after having previously only taken methadone and codeine [the latter, one time only] in the 10 or so days prior to Suboxone. Since the Suboxone did not precipitate withdrawal, I have good reason to believe I was not physically addicted to methadone or any other opiate/opioid at the time. I think I am willing to go five days in a row on Xanax, two days of LIGHT Suboxone use [<0.5mg Suboxone, for two days] after the Xanax, then another two days of Xanax without the Suboxone, then stop everything.

I have every reason to believe that I am not currently physically addicted to anything, and that even my mental addiction and my PAWS is at a low level. Sure, I will always have that craving to use, but that is like a nonsmoker smoking two cigarettes in a month, and then feeling like he is addicted the following month.

At some point, order and reason needs to dictate to me that I am no longer physically addicted.

Sort of off-topic, but as a former opiate addict, I want to allow myself to use opiates once a week at most, and likely at least once in a year. So 1-52 times in a year.

I was thinking - Oxycontin on Sunday night, then 1mg Suboxone the following Sunday, and rotate that way. Is there anything wrong with such a schedule? Is it true that former addicts can never use in moderation again? Because I used in moderation between 2007 and 2016 before things in my life took a turn, and I went downhill, and became a daily addict.

 

[zagor]

Xanax doesn't work. He cannot get any restorative sleep. Any suggestions?

 

[HoldBack]

Excellent post. Benzodiazepines are DEFINITELY to be used on as "AS NEEDED" basis.

I had 1mg of Xanax last Thursday night, and another ~0.7mg Xanax on Friday at 5:25pm.

I want to do five days in a row of Xanax to basically sleep through five days of P.A.W.S [post-acute withdrawal syndrome, from opiates], and I realize it is taking a small risk, but I strongly believe I am no longer addicted to opiates, because I took Suboxone after having previously only taken methadone and codeine [the latter, one time only] in the 10 or so days prior to Suboxone. Since the Suboxone did not precipitate withdrawal, I have good reason to believe I was not physically addicted to methadone or any other opiate/opioid at the time. I think I am willing to go five days in a row on Xanax, two days of LIGHT Suboxone use [<0.5mg Suboxone, for two days] after the Xanax, then another two days of Xanax without the Suboxone, then stop everything.

I have every reason to believe that I am not currently physically addicted to anything, and that even my mental addiction and my PAWS is at a low level. Sure, I will always have that craving to use, but that is like a nonsmoker smoking two cigarettes in a month, and then feeling like he is addicted the following month.

At some point, order and reason needs to dictate to me that I am no longer physically addicted.

Sort of off-topic, but as a former opiate addict, I want to allow myself to use opiates once a week at most, and likely at least once in a year. So 1-52 times in a year.

I was thinking - Oxycontin on Sunday night, then 1mg Suboxone the following Sunday, and rotate that way. Is there anything wrong with such a schedule? Is it true that former addicts can never use in moderation again? Because I used in moderation between 2007 and 2016 before things in my life took a turn, and I went downhill, and became a daily addict.

Based on my experience and that of others, no one can Repeatedly dose an opiate and not get addicted. Now it may take a week or it may take 2 decades but you will eventually raise your dose and frequency of intake to the point of dependence.

Addicts are especially predisposed to this behavior. You may have the will power to keep your schedule for years but eventually you’ll be right back to the point of addiction if not worse than before.

 

[readytoroam]

Excellent post. Benzodiazepines are DEFINITELY to be used on as "AS NEEDED" basis.

I had 1mg of Xanax last Thursday night, and another ~0.7mg Xanax on Friday at 5:25pm.

I want to do five days in a row of Xanax to basically sleep through five days of P.A.W.S [post-acute withdrawal syndrome, from opiates], and I realize it is taking a small risk, but I strongly believe I am no longer addicted to opiates, because I took Suboxone after having previously only taken methadone and codeine [the latter, one time only] in the 10 or so days prior to Suboxone. Since the Suboxone did not precipitate withdrawal, I have good reason to believe I was not physically addicted to methadone or any other opiate/opioid at the time. I think I am willing to go five days in a row on Xanax, two days of LIGHT Suboxone use [<0.5mg Suboxone, for two days] after the Xanax, then another two days of Xanax without the Suboxone, then stop everything.

I have every reason to believe that I am not currently physically addicted to anything, and that even my mental addiction and my PAWS is at a low level. Sure, I will always have that craving to use, but that is like a nonsmoker smoking two cigarettes in a month, and then feeling like he is addicted the following month.

At some point, order and reason needs to dictate to me that I am no longer physically addicted.

Sort of off-topic, but as a former opiate addict, I want to allow myself to use opiates once a week at most, and likely at least once in a year. So 1-52 times in a year.

I was thinking - Oxycontin on Sunday night, then 1mg Suboxone the following Sunday, and rotate that way. Is there anything wrong with such a schedule? Is it true that former addicts can never use in moderation again? Because I used in moderation between 2007 and 2016 before things in my life took a turn, and I went downhill, and became a daily addict.

Whilst I wish it were possible, my experience says it is not possible (for me) to use opiates in moderation.
I got clean in 1996, hurt my back in 2012 and turned to opiates out of desperation for pain relief.
The last eight years have seen me lose a number of jobs, attend multiple rehab s and achieve only a few months here and there of life free from daily dependence and misery.
I'm not saying you cannot achieve equilibrium but my experience shows that I cannot control my use regardless of the negatives consequences.

 

[Slater Says]

Have you tried a potent combination of CBD, CBG, CBN, CBC, CBDV, CBDA, other various miscellaneous cannabinoids and terpenes & Delta 8 THC?

 

[HoldBack]

Excellent post. Benzodiazepines are DEFINITELY to be used on as "AS NEEDED" basis.

I had 1mg of Xanax last Thursday night, and another ~0.7mg Xanax on Friday at 5:25pm.

I want to do five days in a row of Xanax to basically sleep through five days of P.A.W.S [post-acute withdrawal syndrome, from opiates], and I realize it is taking a small risk, but I strongly believe I am no longer addicted to opiates, because I took Suboxone after having previously only taken methadone and codeine [the latter, one time only] in the 10 or so days prior to Suboxone. Since the Suboxone did not precipitate withdrawal, I have good reason to believe I was not physically addicted to methadone or any other opiate/opioid at the time. I think I am willing to go five days in a row on Xanax, two days of LIGHT Suboxone use [<0.5mg Suboxone, for two days] after the Xanax, then another two days of Xanax without the Suboxone, then stop everything.

I have every reason to believe that I am not currently physically addicted to anything, and that even my mental addiction and my PAWS is at a low level. Sure, I will always have that craving to use, but that is like a nonsmoker smoking two cigarettes in a month, and then feeling like he is addicted the following month.

At some point, order and reason needs to dictate to me that I am no longer physically addicted.

Sort of off-topic, but as a former opiate addict, I want to allow myself to use opiates once a week at most, and likely at least once in a year. So 1-52 times in a year.

I was thinking - Oxycontin on Sunday night, then 1mg Suboxone the following Sunday, and rotate that way. Is there anything wrong with such a schedule? Is it true that former addicts can never use in moderation again? Because I used in moderation between 2007 and 2016 before things in my life took a turn, and I went downhill, and became a daily addict.

Based on my experience and that of others, no one can Repeatedly dose an opiate and not get addicted. Now it may take a week or it may take 2 decades but you will eventually raise your dose and frequency of intake to the point of dependence.

Addicts are especially predisposed to this behavior. You may have the will power to keep your schedule for years but eventually you’ll be right back to the point of addiction if not worse than before.

 

[d896629]

Based on my experience and that of others, no one can Repeatedly dose an opiate and not get addicted. Now it may take a week or it may take 2 decades but you will eventually raise your dose and frequency of intake to the point of dependence.

Addicts are especially predisposed to this behavior. You may have the will power to keep your schedule for years but eventually you’ll be right back to the point of addiction if not worse than before.

I've heard this many times. My solution ["solution"] is to buy one year's supply of opiates at a time, give them to a trusted friend to hold, and ONLY they can give any to me [I would cut off contact with my current two suppliers and let them BOTH know that I can only get more from them one day on the first week of the new year], and they can ONLY give me Xmg times 52. That would be enough to use once a week, and I would replenish them once a year.

However, more rules would be in place:

[1] If I skip a week, I CANNOT "bank" opiates for additional sessions, or do two sessions the following week. Once a session is elapsed, I can still only use max once a week for the rest of the year.
[2] While 52 weeks worth of "sessions" will be in storage with a friend, I will have goals to do LESS than that. OBJECTIVE standards. For example - I can do opiates four times in December since it's my birthday month [and people are winding down anyway], but only do them twice in January and twice in February. From March to August, I would reduce that to one time. My point is - I will have specific rules in place to follow informally, while explaining to my friends that I'm still "allowed" to use once weekly.

Why I think this will work is because, without my new consistent contacts, it will be a huge headache to find more, and with all the fakes going around, I simply don't want to take the risk.

I am writing a massive book of rules to govern my personal life. Things were going so well until age 34, when the rules of thumb that I had - which I COMPROMISED ON - in terms of generosity to friends, an other things - led to me using more and more, with 2017 and 2018 being bad years, but I've reduced, almost back to my 2007 to 2016 historic levels, within the [just under] 18 months.

Of course this is no guarantee! It's just that...I want to do opiates SOME times. Normally that would be once every two months. But as a recovering addict, I'm thinking...twice a month would be nice - but ONCE a month would be rare enough for me to still look forward to an opiate treat, without doing it frequently enough to risk relapse.

Even if I wanted to get the opiates from my friend, he wouldn't give me more than the requirements as stipulated in my life rule book I'm writing.

And I'll be honest - I LOATHE the idea of going out and asking random people if they know where to score.

And I've made it clear to all my friends that I don't want to know - that they are NEVER to tell me if they know how to get opiates, even if I ask.

I've gone so far out of my way to make this work, and to make changes in my life so that I don't relapse in a way that makes me feel that opiates are controlling me.

Of course the risk is ALWAYS there! Hence my extremely strict rules that will be in place before I use anything.

I wonder if using every two weeks, rotating oxycodone or hydromorphone with Suboxone would work? I would rotate it like this: O/S/H/S - that would I would only be doing a full opiate agonist once every four weeks, and be doing Suboxone every four weeks. Additionally, I would be rotating two different full opiate agonists, so I would be doing the SAME full opiate agonist once per EIGHT weeks.

I'm assuming if I do Suboxone, and then do hydromorphone two weeks later, that the minimal amount of Suboxone I use [0.5mg to 2mg] would have cleared my system after 14 days, allowing me to enjoy the hydromorphone?

But believe me - I am NOT taking this lightly. It's just that as an athlete, I do NOTHING [I seldom even eat fast food], and I DO want to do opiates...but do so under the strictest of conditions, responsibility, and with the people closest to me being aware of what I'm doing.

I know, I know - I'm rationalizing here. But very few people get to the low level of use I do without medical intervention, and I strongly believe I can do this.

I will also have rules in place in case I find myself relapsing. A relapse will be defined as 5-7 days of pill opiate use [this definition will be objective, and expanded on once I write my rules].

And what happens if I have a small relapse? I will self-isolate in my remote cottage for 30 DAYS! And during that time, I will ensure I give my parents or a loved one or trusted friend any money I have access to, just so there is NO WAY I can buy more opiates.

So trust me - I'm taking this VERY seriously!

I just...love opiates, lol!!! I mean, hey - if you're with your girl for 13 years, and had two bad years, two not so great years, and nine AMAZING years, and things are getting better and better each day...you wouldn't ditch her, would you? LOL.

I'm just saying, I think I can handle moderation, but only time will tell! And I very much appreciate the warnings, everyone! I love this board.

 

[d896629]

Whilst I wish it were possible, my experience says it is not possible (for me) to use opiates in moderation.
I got clean in 1996, hurt my back in 2012 and turned to opiates out of desperation for pain relief.
The last eight years have seen me lose a number of jobs, attend multiple rehab s and achieve only a few months here and there of life free from daily dependence and misery.
I'm not saying you cannot achieve equilibrium but my experience shows that I cannot control my use regardless of the negatives consequences.

Am I assuming too much to say that it seems you have [or at least, had] legitimate pain to deal with?

If so...what can you do? With me, I use opiates purely for recreational reasons, when I went through some hard times [no excuses, but...excuses]. In your case, it sounds like you had a legitimate basis for use for opiates. Am I wrong about that?

 

[readytoroam]

Am I assuming too much to say that it seems you have [or at least, had] legitimate pain to deal with?

If so...what can you do? With me, I use opiates purely for recreational reasons, when I went through some hard times [no excuses, but...excuses]. In your case, it sounds like you had a legitimate basis for use for opiates. Am I wrong about that?

Whilst it was the back pain which initially drove me to seek out opiates for the first time in many years - after trying Pilates, swimming, yoga, chiropractor, acupuncture, stretching, meditation, hypnotherapy .... - what I found was that once i d broken the stigma again, the pain side of things was and remains secondary.
When I first got off all those years ago I maintained that state by working up an anger towards heroin and not entertaining the thought of using. Over the last few Years I romanticize about the stuff even once physically clean. It's not good.
Essentially I've always been hedonistic but also, for many years also productive and a functioning member of society. A little over five years ago I was self sustained, employed, happy, living in a beautiful apartment in Brisbane ... Now I live with my parents back in the UK, do not have a pot to piss in and whenever I do come by some cash all I can think about is the temporary comfort ten pounds can offer me. A single night of angst free sleep and waking up sometime after the sun rises able to drift back off to sleep.... But the reality is I am at the very very best on a knife edge between white knuckle d sobriety and the misery of heroin addiction.
The reasons/the excuses for using are secondary ... The reality is that the moment I have ten pounds, and pretty much every second in between, all I think about is the temporary comfort available and what I have lost. I a m 43 years old and a charity case slave to Brown powder....
And I put well over a decade and thousands of miles between myself and this addiction - the moment I opened that door a crack, I was as good as done.
Just my experience. I don't recommend it.
Drink wine, smoke pot, cook and eat good food, secure a job you enjoy - anything, anything to avoid regressing like I have.

 

[HoldBack]

Quite true. I thought that I was one of those that could use weekly again. After 8 months on methadone I picked up again...How many times has this occurred???

To tell the truth I have actually lost count. I have detoxed off AU smack many times - well those times I did not leave after a few days....

Over the past years - detoxes have changed. Who the fuck can handle a benzo reduction and no cigarettes at the SAME time???

Same old story - back on methadone to hold me. Go to clinic - titrate up, titrate down. Get a private Dr - not much better, still dose at pharmacy. Is it any better than the clinic line? Not really, at least there are people I know. Find a contact and pick up.....

I have only stayed on methadone long enough, I think twice - which granted me access to takeaways.

Despite being on methadone, I used it in combination with other things learned over time. Yes, the methadone cocktail - that great junkie treat.

It is something that just will never leave one alone. Sure I have the choice to stay on methadone and not pick up, however seeing and knowing lifers kind of makes me think of where my destiny is.

At least, for now, our heroin is heroin. Sure, there are cuts, however fentanyl is not a thing I along with others I know have encountered.

Im just thankful MMT is easily available. I hate having to go to the clinic every 370 days a year, but it’s my fault I can’t pee clean I guess.

I would love to dose at a pharmacy, but my life has been so much better since getting on methadone regardless. In my experience people start tapering Off methadone too soon and end up back hella strung out.

Like many junkies in SF I’ve purposely switched from h to fent on purpose. It’s more economical for the dealers and the users.

 

[supermarket]

If klonopin and ativan don't work any longer due to tolerance can any other benzos help for anxiety?

You are going down a slippery slope, my friend. The truth is, benzos are NOT good long-term solutions to anxiety. I have CRIPPLING anxiety, so I understand your pain. Nothing works for me, outside of opiates and benzos. I only use benzos in rare cases, such as when I'm having a full blown panic attack, a REALLY bad anxiety day, or something is specifically triggering me, like a really bad thunderstorm or something.

Benzos have horrible withdrawal, and many of them , if not all, become ineffective at managing anxiety after long-term use. They really just aren't good long-term solutions