Benzos effects on Dopamine & Amphetamines effects on GABA

[reflekt]

I knew that taking benzodiazepines, which work on the GABA receptors, decrease the amount of dopamine, norepinephrine, (and serotonin??) neurotransmitter molecules in the brain, and recently read about that to confirm my belief.

I also believed and then read that amphetamines, since they release/inhibit re-uptake of dopamine (and norepinephrine for l-amp), decrease the effects of GABA in the brain causing anxiety symptoms.

So, if someone were to be high on amphetamines and then take a Valium (yes, the controversial "pharmaceutical speedball"), would that not diminish the amphetamine high, leaving you in a normal state, instead of taking away the anxiety/muscle tension/jittery symptoms?

Or to make the "speedball" successful, would one just need to take a smaller amount of the benzo so that it it doesn't have a major effect on dopamine/norepinephrine? Thus creating the "best of both worlds", amphetamine high without he harsh edge it gives...

Sorry if this post is confusing, it's just been in my mind for a while now.

I'm certain this has been discussed before on here, but I wasn't able to find it as specific and detailed as how I explained it.

Thank you in advance for any insight on the topic.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

There is nothing controversial about taking amphetamines and benzodiazepines; the latter is used to treat overdoses of the former. The only reason one would think it was controversial is not understanding that there is nothing inherently dangerous about combining CNS stimulants and CNS depressants.

 

[reflekt]

There is nothing controversial about taking amphetamines and benzodiazepines; the latter is used to treat overdoses of the former. The only reason one would think it was controversial is not understanding that there is nothing inherently dangerous about combining CNS stimulants and CNS depressants.

Thank you for saying that. I completely agree. I combine CNS stims and depressants often without any problem.

But what my main question here was:
Would taking a benzo decrease the amphetamine high (alertness, motivation, mood lift, talkativeness, etc.)?

Since GABAergic drugs are known to decrease dopamine/norepinephrine.

P.S. haha I meant controversial because people don't believe speedballs can be pharmaceutical, but some people say never combine depressants with stimulants, you are right. So I guess my use of "controversial" had a double meaning, lol.

 

[manicmama]

I use amp almost daily occassionally when I've really overdone it and stand no chance of any kip and already been up a few nights, I neck a few clonazepam to knock me out.
Any amp I take the following day is a waste, I get hardly any effects from it.
I assume that as clonazepam has a long half life, whatever's left of it in my system inhibits the amp from working effectively.
No idea how they would react if taken at the same time as I've never been tempted to try it, limit my benzo use and save for desperate need of sleep.
My experience of amp 8-10 hours after clonazepam would lead me to assume it would be a waste of amp.
This could just be me, would be interesting to hear if anyone had taken these together and they'd not cancelled each other out.

 

[morphonorconic]

Just to clear things up- a speedball is technically heroin and cocaine. However, the term is used loosely these days to describe almost any opioid or depressant and stimulant combination.

To answer your above question, benzos do mellow out the amphetamine high, but I wouldn't say it decreases it, but rather kind of synergizes with it. It takes any edge off and evens everything out IMO. I'd never take amphetamine without a benzo.

 

[Alex000]

The benzodiazepine/amphetamine combination is not unsafe. In fact, even in medicine, it is quite popular to be prescribed both a benzo and an amphetamine together esp. with the fashionable diagnosis of ADHD in adults. I, myself, am prescribed 3 mg Klonopin + 1 mg Xanax (at bedtime and PRN) daily and 10 mg Adderall XR daily. As to how they effect each other when taken together, I can only offer an objective explanation due to the fact that I never had any experience with amphetamines until fairly recently, and have a rather large benzo dependence which started about 1.5 years ago. However, the combination can be quite pleasant depending on how much benzo you dose and how much amphetamine you dose, and at what times. If you take a small dose of any given benzo and let it kick in a bit, and then take a normal dose of amphetamines perhaps 30 - 60 minutes after, the result can be great. It will not snuff out the amphetamine high, but help to reduce some of the unpleasant effects such as anxiety, muscle tension, jitters etc. and provide a much smoother experience, and if the benzo has a long enough duration of action it can help with the comedown/crash, as well. However, too large a benzo dose and the effects of the amphetamines might be a bit dampened. Never dose the amphetamines first and the benzos after unless you feel you have taken too much amphetamine, are panicking, cannot sleep etc. or intend to use the benzo for the comedown/crash, for which it works wonderfully. There is nothing dangerous about dosing the benzos after the amphetamines, but it will likely have significant effect on all of the effects of the amphetamine, including the desired ones, and bring you down somewhat. For a high, dosing the more sedating drug first, and the more stimulating drug after yields best results usually, but esp. when it comes to mixing benzos and amphetamines. If like I said, you need to dampen the high, feel free to crack out the benzos, and during a comedown benzos will always make for an easier and smoother time. Hope this helps some.

 

[reflekt]

If you take a small dose of any given benzo and let it kick in a bit, and then take a normal dose of amphetamines perhaps 30 - 60 minutes after, the result can be great. It will not snuff out the amphetamine high, but help to reduce some of the unpleasant effects such as anxiety, muscle tension, jitters etc. and provide a much smoother experience, and if the benzo has a long enough duration of action it can help with the comedown/crash, as well. However, too large a benzo dose and the effects of the amphetamines might be a bit dampened. Never dose the amphetamines first and the benzos after unless you feel you have taken too much amphetamine, are panicking, cannot sleep etc. or intend to use the benzo for the comedown/crash, for which it works wonderfully. There is nothing dangerous about dosing the benzos after the amphetamines, but it will likely have significant effect on all of the effects of the amphetamine, including the desired ones, and bring you down somewhat. For a high, dosing the more sedating drug first, and the more stimulating drug after yields best results usually, but esp. when it comes to mixing benzos and amphetamines.

This bit was absolutely perfect. Well said. Thank you very much. I take Valium pretty much exclusively, too, which has a long half life, so that works out perfectly.