Benzo's are nerotoxic!!!?

[Middleway]

I was on wikipedia and came accross this article about clonazapam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonazepam and was shocked with what it says about the production of superoxides and information I have seen elsewhere that refers to shrinking of the brain caused by long term use. Are the other benzo's allright do you think or are they all similar to this?

 

[fastandbulbous]

Take everything you read on Wikipedia with a pinch of salt until independantly confirmed/verified (a very large pinch in some cases)

 

[MDPVagrant]

^ particularly on the subject of benzos, which seems to be a bit obsessively negative for some folks. Probably the people who started having panic attacks again when they went off 'em .

 

[vecktor]

information I have seen elsewhere that refers to shrinking of the brain caused by long term use. Are the other benzo's allright do you think or are they all similar to this?

the bad news is that non-benzo users also have shrinking of the brain after long periods of not using benzos, its called old age.
using anything long term is a bad idea, even extended use of oxygen is slowly killing you.
Benzos are severely addictive and should be avoided in long term situations wherever possible. they do not seem though to be much more damaging than any other minor tranquiliser.

 

[narutokun]

i totaly disagree with this from personal experience from abusing high doses over many years, there is obviously neurologic damage how can anyone deny that? and no it's not that i aged. but i don't have any research to prove it so, oh well. i bet you think that messing around with your cns is very healthy oh yes, totaly.

 

[Ham-milton]

You're 17. Unless you started before you entered pre-school (got those down there?), you can't possibly claim to have been abusing over many years.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Back on topic though...

The wiki page just says:

Clonazepam is a chlorinated derivative of nitrazepam.[3] Clonazepam is classed as a nitrobenzodiazepine along with nitrazepam and flunitrazepam.[4] Aromatic nitro-containing compounds such as clonazepam produce superoxide free radicals during cellular metabolism by endothelial cells. The nitro anion radical produced during clonazepam metabolism rapidly reacts with oxygen to form the free radical superoxide.[5][6] Benzodiazepines, including clonazepam, bind to glial cell membranes with high affinity.[7][8]

And the only other mention of neurotoxicity is later on, when it mentions that long term use can have a 'deleterious effect' on neurological function, without giving a reference for it.

Here is a quotation from one of the articles used as a reference for the quote (I can't get access to any more then this...):

Two nitrones, 3,3-diethyl-5,5-dimethylpyrroline 1-oxide (DEDMPO) and 3,3,5,5-tetramethylpyrroline 1-oxide (M4PO), were synthesized by the zinc/ammonium chloride reduction of appropiately substituted gamma-nitrocarbonyl compounds, followed by addition of methylmagnesium bromide to the resulting intermediate nitrones. The lipophilicities of these nitrones were estimated by determining their partition coefficients in an 1-octanol/water system. They were found to be considerably more lipophilic than 5,5-dimethylpyrroline 1-oxide (DMPO). The spin trapping of hydroxyl and superoxide radicals with these nitrones was investigated, and the hyperfine coupling constants were determined. M4PO was found to spin trap both free radicals, while DEDMPO spin trapped only hydroxyl radical. DEDMPO was used to determine if hydroxyl radical was produced during the metabolism of menadione or nitrazepam by porcine thoracic aorta endothelial cells. Our results indicate, in conjunction with spin-trapping studies utilizing DMPO, that only superoxide is generated during cellular metabolism of quinones and aromatic nitro-containing compounds by endothelial cells.

Also:

One-electron reduction of the aromatic nitro-containing drug, clonazepam, by rat hepatic microsomes was found to produce a nitro anion radical which was observable by electron paramagnetic resonance (EPR) spectrometry under anaerobic conditions. It was determined that NADPH-cytochrome P-450 reductase may be the enzyme responsible for this reduction and that this free radical reacts rapidly with oxygen to produce superoxide. The vasodilator nifedipine, another aromatic nitro-containing drug, was found not to be reduced by rat hepatic microsomes to a free radical nor to stimulate superoxide production. Based on a series of experiments, we propose that the inability of nifedipine to be bioreduced to its nitro anion free radical is the result of geometric restrictions which prevent the transfer of an electron from cytochrome P-450 reductase to nifedipine.

So...in rats, this 'superoxide' is created...would the same thing happen in humans? Would this superoxide actually get into your brain and cause neurological damage? Wiki also says that 'superoxide' is a part of the immune system, and has to be balanced out with superoxide dismutase, which acts as a catalyst for the neutralization of superoxide. Would this neutralization occur with Clonazepam abuse?

Those are the questions...and I'm shit out of answer

 

[narutokun]

You're 17. Unless you started before you entered pre-school (got those down there?), you can't possibly claim to have been abusing over many years.

I've started taking them when I was 11 so I can say I have abused them more than half a decade.
I will restrain myself from replying to the school comment, I think when someone attempts an insult on that level it can't get any worse. Basicaly it sounds like you're a pre-schooler yourself trying to offend someone by stating that or you are ignorant enough to think that we do not have schools in south america. Maybe you don't even know that down here we got places that are more prosperous, stable and wealthier than many places up there.

 

[vecktor]

I've started taking them when I was 11 so I can say I have abused them more than half a decade.
|

you should be more concerned that you have been taking them during the period of peak brain development.
It troubles me that we are exposing children to potent psychoactives at an early age without really having any data as to how this effects development. it will probably turn out that nothing bad will come of it but it is an unethical experiment on a massive scale.
Methylphenidate is another example where we are using a generation as lab rats. We went out of our way to prevent exposure of children to lead and mercury and cadmium for what, so we can dose them with state sanctioned and profitable things instead. its fucked up.

 

[Ham-milton]

I will restrain myself from replying to the school comment, I think when someone attempts an insult on that level it can't get any worse. Basicaly it sounds like you're a pre-schooler yourself trying to offend someone by stating that or you are ignorant enough to think that we do not have schools in south america. Maybe you don't even know that down here we got places that are more prosperous, stable and wealthier than many places up there.

Don't take what I said out of context. I asked if there were pre-schools- they're not exactly ubiquitious.

 

[narutokun]

^I knew that you were going to try to escape the flaming by suggesting that interpretation, but I'm not foolish I know in what way you meant what you wrote.

 

[narutokun]

you should be more concerned that you have been taking them during the period of peak brain development.
It troubles me that we are exposing children to potent psychoactives at an early age without really having any data as to how this effects development. it will probably turn out that nothing bad will come of it but it is an unethical experiment on a massive scale.
Methylphenidate is another example where we are using a generation as lab rats. We went out of our way to prevent exposure of children to lead and mercury and cadmium for what, so we can dose them with state sanctioned and profitable things instead. its fucked up.

I agree with the peak brain development thing but I'm really not concerned. Yeah I think it's pretty much ok that. I have no problems with it, whether it's unethical or not, I don't know; we barely see any ethics in today's world anyway do we? I have nothing agaisnt artificial selection, really.

 

[entropy90]

Well I dont know about Clonazepam but Ive been taking my mom's Xanax for about 5-6 years now and I havnt noticed any permenant dain bramage.

^I knew that you were going to try to escape the flaming by suggesting that interpretation, but I'm not foolish I know in what way you meant what you wrote.

Dude, relax. Ham-milton is a smart guy and hes been around drugs a bit longer then you or myself. You have to think of what hes saying like this: To us 5yrs if a hell of a long time roughly a third of our lives. But for Ham-milton its just a drop in the bucket so to speak. You get what Im trying to say?

Either of you guys feel free to correct me if Im not on the same page as you.

 

[narutokun]

Well I dont know about Clonazepam but Ive been taking my mom's Xanax for about 5-6 years now and I havnt noticed any permenant dain bramage.



Dude, relax. Ham-milton is a smart guy and hes been around drugs a bit longer then you or myself. You have to think of what hes saying like this: To us 5yrs if a hell of a long time roughly a third of our lives. But for Ham-milton its just a drop in the bucket so to speak. You get what Im trying to say?

Either of you guys feel free to correct me if Im not on the same page as you.

You're not on the same age at all, you didn't even understand what we were talking about, which to some extent basicaly proves that having taken your mom's shit for 5 years has fucked you up already. Dain bramage huh?

 

[entropy90]

Okay well if im not on the same page then my I so kindly request what page are you on? How do you know I dont know what your talking about, is there some fundemental flaw in what I said that allows you to pick out my level of education?

Of course if in fact I am reading this wrong, please, in an educated, level tone, calm post explain to me where I have gone wrong.


Dain Bramage=Joke

 

[narutokun]

He was making fun of south america's educational system and pretended he was talking about something else, that's all there is to it. He made an ambiguous sentense in order to flame and be able to say it wasn't a flame, need I be more clear?

 

[vecktor]

^ this is boring and off topic.....Take it to PM's

 

[closedeyevision]

this is priceless, a good enough question about benzos hijacked by someone who started taking them at age 11. 11!!! for. fuck. sake

 

[Ham-milton]

You give me too much credit. When I'm being a dick, I'm pretty blunt.

I'm sorry you took it as an attack on a whole continent, but that definitely wasn't my intention.

 

[entropy90]

Sir, I wish to offer my sincerest apologies. I made an honest mistake and did not bother to look at what I posted. If there is anyway I can make this up to you I would be more then greatfull to do so.

In a perfect world this would be the quote I would have used:

I've started taking them when I was 11 so I can say I have abused them more than half a decade.

However in an attempt to keep this thread about the nerotoxic affects of Benzodiazepines and not about the validty of a quote or the education level of the quotee, I will refrain from posting any further on the aforementioned topic and pertain all futher posts to the original content of this thread.