Benzos Benzodiazpines and avoiding a seizure.

[MusicFiend420]

Hey Everyone.

This is my first post (joined today) but have been an avid "reader" if you will of the posts for quite some and you definitely seem to right group to ask. Please advise if I break any forum rules so I'll know for future posts.

Essentially, my point is "some dude" has been trading green for benzos. It's always one (or mix) of three. Mogadon (10mg), Kolonpin (1mg) and Lorazepam (2mg). At first it was cool b/c it was only once in a while. Now he notices that he has been taking some mixtures (for example today he took 3 mogadons (30mg) and 2 lorazepams (4mg) at once when he got home from work about an hour ago) and he has definitely noticed a tolerance. Where say 6-8mg of Lorazepam or 5 mg of k-pins used to give him a nice buzz, he barley notices it now. So he understands he has to lower the dose since increasing it for desired effects seems like asking for trouble. To cut to the point, he has taken benzos for almost 6 weeks (maybe even eight) daily at around these doses and is deathly afraid of having a grand mal seizure if he runs out or wants to quit now that I have read that this is a withdrawal risk.

So my question is using the aforementioned info, what would you recommend. He intends on tapering but supply may not allow and I don't even know if his dosages are low medium or high compared to most recreational users and what the backlash would be from stopping cold turkey. Any advice would be appreciated and I will pass it on to my friend.

 

[tricomb]

First of all, read the rules first like you agreed to when signing up. We do not allow "SWIM" "my friend" or any of those variants here on BL.

The OD guidelines and BLUA are available in my signature.

Do not go cold turkey off benzos, do a very slow taper, dropping like 1mg / week

 

[Swain]

6 weeks was enogh to give me a fucking hellish benzo detox.. you absolutely should taper. do not CT...this is not dope, you can die.

 

[auto448]

Get your self some valium can be broke down from 10-5-2 if meeds be

 

[MusicFiend420]

Thanks for the quick responses!

@ Tricomb. I'll know from now on regarding 3rd person lingo (hopefully I won't have to ask another question like this.) I'm unsure as to which of the three you meant going down by 1mg and do you mean by day or what gradation? Right now all I have access to is nitrazepam (10mg, I can cut in half, but cannot get it into 10ths) and the 2mg of lorazepam.

@ Swain. That's pretty fucking scary to hear. It seemed to complement the weed so nicely and now it's taking over and so I don't doubt this aint dope. I will def be tapering. I have double digit amounts so hopefully I'll even be able to throw some away. I wouldn't give them to a friend, doesn't seem a very "friendly" thing to do haha.

@auto448: That's not even an option. I got whatever was available. Right now is nitrazapam and lorazapam so I'll just try to slow down and then stop at a "guess" rate.

I even used to pop oxy and comparatively I am scared as hell at what I've been reading about benzos. I only wish I had read all of this before I agreed to that first trade off. It seems like benzos are just one of those things you shouldn't do at all (recreational wise). Again, thanks to you 3 even if it confirmed fears rather than alleviate, I at least know not just to chuck it in the trash and see what happens.

 

[kokaino]

Maybe you should start by decreasing the lorazepam dose by 2 mg for a week and then the week after decrease the nitrazepam dose by 10 mg. Then go a couple of weeks using 20 mg nitrazepam and 2 mg lorazepam then slowly decrease each weekly. Decrease the lorazepam by 0.5 and the nitrazepam by 5 mg every week until you get to a low enough dose to be able to stop. The amount you are taking really isn't too too bad. I've known people taking 20 mg alprazolam along with 300 mg temazepam or diazepam or 10-20 mg clonazepam.

 

[tyler5]

hey, i', a long time fentanyl and benzodiazepine addict:
if i understood correctly, YOU have from HIM the following benzos:
a)lorazepam 4-6mg thats like 1.5-2.5 xanax pretty much
b)alprazolam not taken that night, right
c)nitazepam(hypnotic,therefore very nice with opi(io)ates)
d)clonazepam they come in 2mg's over here and even if you take 4 it rarely makes you feel anything so thats off the charts...
you neeed to start going to EVERY doctor in your town/city/metro area/redneck backarea and ask or "relief from the pains of live". you'll be surprised by what some those small town docs write you if youre straight up with them. *preprares next 3 20 opana ir's for iv".

 

[Swain]

dude I did the same thing.. I was trading subs for xanax and days turned into weeks and before I knew it I had been takin 4-6mg daily for 3 or 4 months. It was worse than any opiate detox I;ve had and I am talkin like a 20 bag a day IV habit.

One thing that I noticed was the withdrawals come back very quick no matter how much time has elapsed. I will have not even had a single bar for a few months and if I use heavy for a week straight.. like 4-6mg daily, I will end up with what I consider nearly severe but short-lived withdrawals compared to my first detox from the 4 month habit.

I Told my self I would never use benzos again because the negative qualities outweigh the positive ones BIGTIME...but you don;t see that until you fully realize the dependency issue.

Now the only benzo I use is once a month I get 30x 30mg temazepam.. so I get nice and high for 3 days or so..that's about equal to 10 2mb xanax bars IMO.

 

[Titus]

Do not go cold turkey off benzos, do a very slow taper, dropping like 1mg / week

Agreed. The slower the taper, the better. And one will experience withdrawl symptoms even on low doses of benzo's, even say 1-2mg of ativan or klonopin per day. Not sure, but think the risk of seizure is less going cold turkey off a daily dose that would be prescribed by a dr than the doses your talking about.

If I were you I'd figure out how much I have left and start tapering NOW. If you dont' have the extra pills already in hand you can not be 100% sure you will be able to get them and use them to taper. I'd rather go from 10mg to 5mg to 2mg over the course of a couple of weeks for safety sake rather than start to slowly taper and go from 10mg to 9mg....to running out and not being able to get anymore. If I found myself in that position I would personally at a minimum call some hotline or a nurse on call or someone who could advize me with professional medical advice as like you are aware there is real risk of seizue from benzo withdrawl, death is possible I believe.

So I would be prioritizing figuring out how many I have on hand and figuring how to taper with those, and also trying to get more so I could taper my dose slowly which will obviously be safer and less unplesant.

I used to have a very high benzo tolerance/addiction at one point and would always be mindful if I had less than 100 pills on hand as I would then need to start planning a sort of 'quick' taper so I wouldn't go from 20mg of ativan in a day to 10mg the next day, to 2m the next day, to having none.... If I were you, given your dosage ammt's I would be seeking more now while also planning that taper, the slower the better, but don't ignore the possible need to get medical help (like going to the dr or hospital and explaining your ammt of benzo's you've been taking so they can detox you).

 

[MusicFiend420]

@ Titus: Wow. 20mg of Ativan. I can't even conceive of taking that much at once so in a way that gives me hope. If I get a sense that something "bad" is going to happen I will talk to a doc but I want that to be a last resort but will do so if it seems necessary.

@Kokaino Again, hearing of those others (since I have no comparisons to draw from) taking those amounts gives me hope that maybe I can just slow it down and then be done with it because those sound like very high doses comparatively. So maybe (and I stress maybe) it won't be terrible.

@Swain I know, it's like I turned around one day and was like "holy shit, I'm doing this daily.....for a month or more. WTF?" You are right, it all seems cool while unbeknownst to the user, a dependency is brewing like a motherfucker. I did a pretty big drop tonight 1 10mg nitrazepam and 1 2mg Lorazepam. A lot less than I'm used too and see how that goes. I don't really care about feeling high anymore, I just want to stop it. Yet there it seems like there is always that demon in me that wants to get high no matter what I have :-(

@Tyler5 Yes to everything except alprazolam. That I never tried and now never want too. Usually it's 20 pills of two kinds each (like I said, right now nitrazepam and lorazepam) I get (soon to be got) on our trade off. i don't think I'm going to go doctor shopping. I've got around 15 of each left and I'm just gonna make the dose smaller and smaller. Next time dude calls for a trade up, I'm gonna say no and I'm gonna tell him why.

Thank you everyone for giving a shit and responding and helping someone you don't even know.

 

[tricomb]

It's best to taper with the longer acting benzodiazepines, particularly ones that build up in your system like diazepam, and I imagine nitrazepam would do the same (I've only tried it once because I'm in the united states)

Although for some people, most likely not you, it is very difficult to taper with longer acting benzos, like me for example, coming off my heavy addiction to alprazolam I tried tapering with like every benzo available to me, but I could only ever make progress by slowly decreasing my xanax dose, although this should only be done as last line treatment, if all other attempts to taper fail.

 

[Titus]

Thank you everyone for giving a shit and responding and helping someone you don't even know.

Your welcome. Please try and find the time some day to repay by helping another. I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the help of others...

 

[MusicFiend420]

@ Titus Yeah, thanks to you guys I have info to pass on. I had a call from my friend today to do another trade off and I told him about the shit I've been worrying about and he "assured" me that I have a 1/1000th chance of having a seizure and that he just gets "the shakes" and has been doing it for years. I told him either way I want to take a breather b/c of tolerance building so the answer is still no. Seeing how he wanted something out of the deal I'm trust you guys since you have nothing to gain. If it wasn't for the responses I would have said yes and just kept going.

@ Tricomb That makes sense regarding longer acting benzos. Duly noted. Maybe since I've been mixing them up I won't have to rely on one specifically.

I didn't mean to sound like such a scared pussy. I smoked rock for 3 years, railed OC for a fuzzy amount of time, did meth here and there and now I do none of those (no rehab), even quit a pack a day cig habit. It was just something about that grand mal seizure that freaked me out so I hope I didn't sound like I was overreacting or anything. Thanks again guys.

 

[pbuilder]

Well your first mistake was really using benzo's to get a "buzz" or a high. Drugs like opiates and euphoric stims are for getting high, benzo's are a tool.

a) The benzo "high", if you can call it that, is not at all worth the, and i quote "worst withdrawals in the entire world".

b) The withdrawals can actually kill you, and the PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome) from it, is apparently like the worst feeling in the whole world. I've read sh*t of people, clean from drugs for years that had a bad benzo habit, and they still have some PAWS, like i said, YEARS LATER, from there benzo addiction. Benzo's are just not worth it. They are for once in a while, maybe for that not so common SUPER BAD anxiety and panic attack from a stim comedown, or if you have a really important interview or presentation, but otherwise these are not a drug worth to take on a daily basis. They are a tool, you use a tool to often and it breaks or wears down, and with benzo's you literally f*ck yourself over completely.

c) If you just wanna relax after work, i hate giving this advice but, you'd still be better off using opiates recreationally, because at least they have better recreational value and the withdrawals aren't life threatening. Don't get me wrong though, opiates can be one hell of a road to rock bottom as well, like most drugs when abused.

d)*stay safe*

and ofc ps: don't use swim or "your friend", or any other variation on blue light, unless you enjoy reading insulting comments regarding how annoying swim, or any other of those "3rd person" terms are. And it's against the rules.

EDIT: And i just realized how ironic benzos for recreational use are. Benzo's just kinda relieve your anxiety and make you feel "normal".

Yet that is like the later part of addiction for opiates and other drugs lol, originally you had really nice highs, and as you become addicted mentally or physically, you begin to build a tolerance and lose the high completely, but rather just "feel alright" or normal after a dose lol. Benzo's skip all the euphoria and already leave you at the next step of addiction!

EDIT2: okay, now i can understand more where you are coming from after that last post. If you've already been around the ballpark and have had lots of experiences with cocaine, opiates and meth, I'm sure you've also delt with your fair share of anxiety, and the awfulness of being sober when used to the euphoria of drugs. In that sense, i can understand why you became addicted to benzo's, not much of a comedown and they rid you of anxiety, which at that point is probably a nice enough high as it is lol. No comedown until you start going into physical withdrawal that is

It's best to taper with the longer acting benzodiazepines, particularly ones that build up in your system like diazepam, and I imagine nitrazepam would do the same (I've only tried it once because I'm in the united states)

Although for some people, most likely not you, it is very difficult to taper with longer acting benzos, like me for example, coming off my heavy addiction to alprazolam I tried tapering with like every benzo available to me, but I could only ever make progress by slowly decreasing my xanax dose, although this should only be done as last line treatment, if all other attempts to taper fail.

yes^, this is the best way to avoid serious health problems or death from benzo withdrawal.

hmm, i wonder though, does tapering with a benzo that accumulates within the body and has a long half life, make it more likely to get or worsen the PAWS. Just because you maintain yourself on a built up level of the drug, for months or years.

 

[Znegative]

Definately taper. You are using very high dosages of these benzo's. For the naive, 1mg of lorazepam or .5mg of clonazepam is totally enough for more than a therapeutic effect.

 

[tricomb]

Znegative knows what we're talking about, he and I are on the same page. And totally agree with the statement about benzos jumping straight into addiction without the euphoria, unlike opiates.

 

[MusicFiend420]

Cool. I think I have enough to go on from you guys and should be alright, although I might try a slightly quicker taper than is being suggested b/c I refuse to resupply and I'm going to try not to do any until tonight (I normally wake up w/ 4mg of loraz). But I bought an ounce of bud, a couple of books and subscription to netflix lol Hopefully that'll keep me distracted enough Plus I'm going to check out (I forget the name) the root valerian or something that apparently works on the GABAa receptors as well but to a much lesser degree (I know there are bluelight posts about it it I'll check out.)

I've heard the whole why do benzos when you have access to opiates asked by friends and that it doesn't give you a high. I can only think it must be based on everyone's individual physiological and psychological make up. Even b4 it was regular I would take nitrazepam over hydrocodone any day while I know lots of ppl are vice-versa. I would only get percs if all other attempts to get benzos failed. Oxycodone is the only pharm that I might pick over benzos IMO; but they are just too different of effects to make a fair comparison though, it's like apples and oranges if you ask me. Only rock took a "priority" over everything else for me and even almost put me on the streets at one point. That suggests biological reasons 2 me. Like why some people do blow or rock (more so blow) only once in a while it totally consumes other people's lives (like mine was for a few years).

 

[Titus]

I didn't mean to sound like such a scared pussy. I smoked rock for 3 years, railed OC for a fuzzy amount of time, did meth here and there and now I do none of those (no rehab), even quit a pack a day cig habit. It was just something about that grand mal seizure that freaked me out so I hope I didn't sound like I was overreacting or anything. Thanks again guys.

Who cares how you sound bro? Chill. YOu had a prob, sought help, and evidently found it. Cooincidentially I'm on a low dose (self prescribed) of xanax (2-4mg/day), actually not a 'low dose' but some dr's would prescribe more in certain cases so it's a managable dose. My point is that I've gotten down to like 30mg left so am going to 1: start reducing my doses (I already have) and also made a call to 'the street' re: getting more early next week so Idont run out and so I will be able to taper as slowly as possible. My 'refill' should have been here by now but things happen so I have to look out for my safety and even if your buddy is right and he just gets 'the shakes', trust me, THEY suck ass too. It seems his way of thinking is that getting the shakes has come to be accepted as part of his lifestyle. I recommend you DO NOT add that to part of yours.

If you need benzo's, well there is a dependency issue that comes with them, and millions of ppl, and millions of dr's believe the trade off is worth it depending on the severity of the symptoms of NOT being on a benzo. Me included. I'm not gonna die of I go from 3-4mg of xanax/day to none but it's still better to taper and to take a cpl months to do so even at that dose IMO.

Your not a pussy, your someone lookin after your health. A lot of ppl, including me, have things we could learn from you about how to live life well.
Peace,
Titus

 

[Titus]

Maybe for OP he has a certain ammt of anxiety and his taking benzo's and self treating this anxiety is 'getting high' to him the way some more experienced with heavier drugs some others here recognize as 'getting high'. Sort of like 'the high is in the eye of the beholder'.

Mosteveryone I know who uses benzo's to 'get high' does so in conjunction with other drugs. Most all also have, at least in the opinion of a psychiatrist or therapist, 'issues' or one or more diagnosis.

Millions self medicate with pot and to me, at my age, with my past experience, it's a negative and a waste to take pot. It's a positive to take benzo's as I have significant anxiety. Do I 'get high'? No, not unless you consider a nod in conjunction with dope and benzo's together getting high. But me taking a low dose benzo alone is a good thing and improves my day, my self experience of being myself, and therefore improves the lives of eveyone else around me on those days, like my wife and my baby. So 'high' or 'axiety treated' I'm better off on a benzo than on nothing. And I can and do control my benzo use (actually without making an effort to 'contorl' it). Opiate use, OTOH, is a different story alltogether. I'm 'driven' to take them and struggle to not take 'too much'. I don't have that problem with benzos. MY only prob with benzo's is not having a consistent and dependable source at the moment and that puts me at risk, not for seizure, but for suckly life.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Cool. I think I have enough to go on from you guys and should be alright, although I might try a slightly quicker taper than is being suggested b/c I refuse to resupply and I'm going to try not to do any until tonight (I normally wake up w/ 4mg of loraz). But I bought an ounce of bud, a couple of books and subscription to netflix lol Hopefully that'll keep me distracted enough Plus I'm going to check out (I forget the name) the root valerian or something that apparently works on the GABAa receptors as well but to a much lesser degree (I know there are bluelight posts about it it I'll check out.)

I've heard the whole why do benzos when you have access to opiates asked by friends and that it doesn't give you a high. I can only think it must be based on everyone's individual physiological and psychological make up. Even b4 it was regular I would take nitrazepam over hydrocodone any day while I know lots of ppl are vice-versa. I would only get percs if all other attempts to get benzos failed. Oxycodone is the only pharm that I might pick over benzos IMO; but they are just too different of effects to make a fair comparison though, it's like apples and oranges if you ask me. Only rock took a "priority" over everything else for me and even almost put me on the streets at one point. That suggests biological reasons 2 me. Like why some people do blow or rock (more so blow) only once in a while it totally consumes other people's lives (like mine was for a few years).

personally ditch the bud, it will most likely leave you paranoid as you have been abusing benzos for a while now and smoke weed while on benzos, it will be an unfamiliar feeling unless you get some really high grade sour diesel or something like that. i used to abuse benzos hard because of the euphoria in it too, so don't worry about the stick you're getting, i loved the xanax feel man. you aint a pussy for loving benzos or not doing a lot of drugs in fact you're the clever one that hasn't abused anything too hardcore. benzos for me are still hardcore. don't take how people judge you to heart, people who judge other people based on what they do are just idiots. there is most likely a long standing problem that has caused a drug addiction to anything that everybody looks past. to one person heroin might be cigarettes, or alcohol. frankly being called a pussy is just someone being immature and pathetic. don't listen to it.

benzos can cause a seizure if you don't withdraw properly and it looks like you've experienced that first hand before.

i have experienced a benzo withdrawal more times than i care to remember and each was worse than the other. you have to be super careful especially if you're abusing the short acting ones. the w/d can come so quickly and rapidly its hard to understand what is going on. lorazepam for me was awful, but xanax was the worst.

you need to now start to withdraw gradually using a longer acting benzo such as valium of rivotril(clonazepam). it will make the withdrawal symptoms not as apparent, but might reduce the euphoria you gain from benzos as its a lot different to lorazepam.

try a supplement called l-theanine too its a gaba reuptake inhibitor so will help with it too. it should be as intense and may provide some relief.

as for sleep try phenegran (promethazine) along with a lower dose of your benzo.

i used alcohol for a long time too in order to stimulant my gaba receptors but my oh my that was a bad idea, i would be so irritated and angry that i would get into a very aggressive state where i'd want to kill anything that moved.

don't switch to oxy either thats a bad move, i tried that and i just ended up topping up my benzo addiction with oxy. it's a bad and long road man. quit while you're ahead and have some peace and serenity for the rest of your life, i have been a drug addict for ages now, its not any fun anymore. i have quit benzos and opiates but i'm still addicted to the amphetamines, at the moment i'm trying to stop but i think its consuming my life and i can't stand it much more. i know its my own fault - but i feel like life isn't worth living without my drugs. it sucks so so bad.

crack is a great anti-anxiety tool in my experience as well. it seems like you suffer from some sort of anxiety disorder that should be addressed rather than drugged. personally i preferred benzos over opiates too. but i'm clean from them both and i feel better for it. in fact i was clean for 4 months before i tried amphs again and i'm back in a spiral of drug addiction now. the only person that can change me is me i guess but its difficult. the sooner you come off the better.

try it, and pm me if you wanna chat about anything, or if i can help you further let me know, i've been through all the drug addiction and problems related with it. peace.