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Benzos Benzodiazepines' Solubilities in Water

Sorry, i don't want this to come through like another of those stupid snorting/shooting/plugging benzos-questions. But propably it is pretty much that. Anyway...

I have Bromazepam and i found reports where they compared the effects of oral and rectal administration of Bromazepam in animals. As far as i understood it, they came to the conclusion that it might be a good idea to make it available as a preparation for rectal administration because their results showed, that it was sometimes superior to oral administration (e.g. lower doses for same effect, faster onset or something like that, can't remember the details).

Unfortunately, i couldn't find any info on how they prepared the substance für rectal administration. I don't know about Bromazepam's bioavailability or (more important) solubility in water, how the pH influences it and if water could be used at all or if it's only soluble in other solvents. Since it isn't even mentioned in this thread, i suppose it's pretty un-soluble without the right equipment/substances, but i would love to get some input from you more experienced guys.

To give you at least some kind of explanation why i'm interested in it: I'm not necessarily looking for some kind of rush, or want to do it because just taking them oral is boring or something like that. I'm looking into this ROA for Bromazepam since i read this report about its possible advantages mainly because my supply is VERY limited. If there was a way i could use (for example) 3mg for a situation which normally would require me to take a full 6mg... this would be f'ing amazing.

So, Bromazepam seems "almost unsoluble" (dont' know what "almost" exactly means here) in water and i only found out it is soluble in methanol, which isn't very practible for making a solution i imagine. Any ideas/input?

edit: Their conclusion was: "From these data, significant differences of the pharmacological effects between oral and rectal administration of bromazepam were recognized in the duration of action and, in part, potencies; and therefore, rectal administration of bromazepam may be a useful dosage form for clinical use." That's why i thought it might be worth a try, but i'm afraid that making a solution for this ROA is a bit complicated.
 
Somberlain said:
So, Bromazepam seems "almost unsoluble" (dont' know what "almost" exactly means here) in water and i only found out it is soluble in methanol, which isn't very practible for making a solution i imagine. Any ideas/input?
Click to expand...

It means it is water solubility is negligible. Most benzodiazepines have very low water solubility, so you would have to dissolve a given amount of a benzo in a lot of water (more than what people imagine generally).

Check out the Benzodiazepine Solubility thread I created.
 
I did check out your thread but couldn't find anything on Bromazepam. I'll have another look, but i was pretty sure it wasn't listed there.

edit: If i interpret the info i found on Bromazepam today right, it would take so much water that rectal administration is not an option anymore. I don't really know if this could be changed by messing with pH-levels or something like that, but the fact that Bromazepam wasn't even worth a mention in the discussion suggests that there isn't a (realistic) way to do this without equip/substances.

But i'm still interested in how they made the suppositories for the animal study, but unfortunately i don't have acess to the whole thing.
 
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Somberlain said:
I did check out your thread but couldn't find anything on Bromazepam. I'll have another look, but i was pretty sure it wasn't listed there.
Click to expand...

I double checked; bromazepam doesn't have an experimental water solubility statistic linked on its drugbank.ca page. That's where I got most of the statistics on the first post of this thread.

You can look at water solubility for the other benzodiazepines, compare the solubility to a recreational dosage, and extrapolate where bromazepam likely fits into the range of negligible water solubility (assuming it's somewhere in the middle of the values).

You could probably plug 20mL at once (haven't ever plugged such a large volume myself but I know someone who had done so successfully), and you could always try dissolving it in that volume to see how it would work.
 
Thanks for your help!

Might try that, although 20ml could be quite uncomfortable.

One more question: In a different thread here on bluelight, it was claimed that the use of milk or oil would make a difference (regarding absorption/solubility when plugging benzos). But i didn't find any substantial info which could back this claim up. You seem very educated when it comes to solubility of benzos, so maybe you can tell me, if liquids like that really make a difference (because of the fat?). I think in regards to plugging, milk or oil wouldn't be much of a problem, if that really would make a difference in absorption/solubility.
 
Somberlain said:
Thanks for your help!

Might try that, although 20ml could be quite uncomfortable.

One more question: In a different thread here on bluelight, it was claimed that the use of milk or oil would make a difference (regarding absorption/solubility when plugging benzos). But i didn't find any substantial info which could back this claim up. You seem very educated when it comes to solubility of benzos, so maybe you can tell me, if liquids like that really make a difference (because of the fat?). I think in regards to plugging, milk or oil wouldn't be much of a problem, if that really would make a difference in absorption/solubility.
Click to expand...

I have never tried using either, and wouldn't know. The furthest I've gone is using bacteriostatic + propylene glycol to micron filter alprazolam out of tablets. I have never tried plugging a benzo.

Some other Bluelighters are bound to hop in the thread and share their knowledge though.
 
Haha picture someone with a 25cc missile in their arm loaded with a powerful anxiolytic hypnotic drug, of all things. Sweet - You got it in and have pushed off! here goes.. 20.. 15.. Yawn.. 10cc.. Zzz.. .. . . .....
What happens when they wake up, I wonder? "Henry, you've been down in that blasted basement for hours now, you really need to come eat your soup before it gets-OH MY GOD, SON 47XR@$(63QW YOUR ARM!"

Edit: Sorry, this is a great thread, thank you. It really helped me prove a point to an acquaintance who may otherwise have been in danger of anything from looking like a fool to losing his "having a left arm" privilege.
 
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yea were talking one mg pills or 2mg pills the rest filler why go through the trouble when oral is just as good
NCUK said:
im with u capt. dont know why these kids insist on snorting an shooting benzos.... they need to do a little research.
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man swim spilled bout 1/4 bottle of vodka on bout 60 1mg xans i started as a accident. than turned into a water bottle full of vodka with 60mg of alprazolam in it . a whole party of people were tore off that 3/4 full water bottle it was hell of a fix to other wise bad problem.just a funny story.
 
Isn't solubility pH dependant. I seem to recall reading on the packaging of midazolam a warning that the solution was acidic and larger veins and slow injection should be used to avoid damage to said vein. Glycol is used in some other injectable benzos, I think.

A friend said 'There is an imine in many benzos, that opens at lower pH and that species is a lot more soluble and back at physiological pH, it reforms. I cannot remember if the pH was 2 or 3.... but NOBODY should go there!
 
I'm going to bring this thread back to life for a moment.. I've abused nearly every BZD being RX'ed around the world for a few years now (Aside Flunitraz / Lormeta, sadly) but I have cut down on my usage tremendously since those days. Anyways, I've been RX'ed Triazolam for insomnia for quite some time, thinking it was the 'holy grail' of BZD's.. I've taken the drug orally, SL, insufflated, IV'ed, and it all seemed the same. Till today, at least. Now, I cannot find any research to the bioavailability of Halcion, but, using a 10mL Oral Syringe, and two 0.25 Triazolam dissolved in hot water (Via the sink) this kicked in with QUITE a rapid onset, as one minute I was reading on my PC, then I'm waking up, not realizing I fell asleep. Either way, this ROA is a winner in my book. If anyone has information on rectal BA of Triazolam, I'd like to know. I've taken 9mg with the only effect being a lack of anxiety for the short time span. This knocked me out, thumbs up.
 
So can glycerin be used instead of propylene glycol r added solubilitu for ativan lets say...?
 
did you feel a "rush" when injecting benzodiazepine like loprazolam or midazolam ?
 
I am in love with the needle, which IMO, many of us are. I hear warnings about it stinging, and not being good for my veins. However, I've shot heroin that has stung so bad I was on the verge of tears. It's not always like that, so I am sure it's something it is cut with. As long as I'm getting a good buzz on, I personally feel it's worth it. And my veins are already a hot mess from shooting coke and heroin. I'm sure I could do more damage. I prefer shooting things rather than snorting or taking orally. Even if the buzz is no better than the oral or sniffing routes, I choose the IV route all day! What's the word on smoking benzos? I just took two 5mg valium orally. I wanna boost that buzz (I ran out of heroin tonight and only have a rinse in the morning before I re-up) and am seriously contemplating shooting the other two 5mg valiums I have left. Also, I read somewhere in this thread about shooting ambien. Is that feasible? I do have one of those as well...
I just want the best buzz for what I am sitting on for the rest of the nite. Here is what I have left (keeping in mind I am absolutely in love with my needles): two 5mg valiums, one 10mg Ambien. What I want more than anything is to shoot them. I do NOT have any fancy filters. Like I said, my veins are already jacked. So....I don't care.
 
I may be a little "off thread" here but can anyone give any advice on I.v'ing 30ml temazepam (the green jelly egg's) e.g mixing the water with a little water or adding something like citric or ascorbic acid? Also read on this thread about using solvents but I'm a little ignorant on that score, I assumed a solvent was like the ones people sniff such as glue or nail varnish remover
 
OK.so I have a pg solution of etizolam...and yes I have I.v.I'd this.of course I had to mix with water to thin it out..
But I was wondering if using vodka or even a small amount of 91% ISO to thin it out a bit and to help with BA..
Does this make any sense?
Just curious.
 
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