BananasAndOranges
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,982
if I would have taken a valium or klonopin before coming to the clinic I wouldn't have thought or overthought about how I pretty much half ass tripped infront of like 30 ppl
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Benzodiazepines: Basics to Advanced 2nd ED.
- Thread starter K'd-OUT-in-AZ
- Start date
K'd-OUT-in-AZ
Bluelighter
Time goes by quicker too. Ever notice that?
K'd-OUT-in-AZ
Bluelighter
ARE THERE ANY DRUGS TO CONSIDER DURING BENZODIAZEPINE WITHDRAWAL?
There are several. And your doctor may suggest one or more. Again, the best advice is to proceed with caution and carefully research any new drug you are considering. A few are mentioned below.
Tegretol (carbamazepine): an anti-seizure drug. Some studies have shown this drug to be effective in reducing certain physical withdrawal symptoms. Others have shown it to be ineffective. Testimonials regarding the use of Tegretol are mixed.
Neurontin (gabapentin): primarily a pain medication and used as an adjunctive anti-seizure drug, Neurontin has been been implicated as alleviating certain physical withdrawal symptoms. Testimonials are mixed and they are too few for reliable generalization.
Lyrica (Pregabalin): primarily an anticonvulsant and used as an adjunctive anti-seizure drug, Lyrica helps greatly with the symptoms of anxiety, insomnia and other physical withdrawal symptoms
Beta blockers (e.g. Inderal): these may help with heart palpitations, hypertension, as well as shakes/tremors. Some beta blockers cross the blood/brain barrier, and may be mildly addictive, though the official medical literature states that they are non-addictive. However, that same literature also recommends that they not be discontinued abruptly. Do not take a beta blocker unless you are seriously troubled by any of the above-mentioned symptoms. Even then, you should either take them at the lowest dose possible, or take them situationally (as the symptom emerges). Beta blockers do not directly reduce anxiety, but they can alleviate some of the physical symptoms associated with panic attacks, which may indirectly help to reduce the associated anxiety level.
WHAT ABOUT HERBS AND OTHER HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES - DO ANY OF THOSE HELP THE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS?
Maybe. Everyone's experience is different. Acupuncture, massage therapy, and chiropractic have been commented on, but there is little conclusive data as to their effectiveness in relieving withdrawal symptoms. As for herbal remedies, all of the following have been mentioned as occasionally helpful to one person or another: Valerian, Kava Kava, St. John's Wort, 5htp, SAMe, Melatonin, GABA, Chamomile, and Rescue Remedy***.
With very few exceptions, the majority of these have been found to be helpful in only a few cases, and several people have felt that their withdrawal symptoms were heightened by taking one or more of these substances. Of the entire group mentioned, only two have been singled out by a fairly large number of people as especially helpful: chamomile tea and Rescue Remedy***. Keep in mind that even those herbal substances which you find helpful may only work where your symptoms are relatively mild. For example, chamomile tea might relieve mild agitation, but is very unlikely to bring you out of a full blown panic attack. However, there are breathing and relaxation methods that can help to alleviate panic attacks.
Kava is noted as creating more adverse reactions than some of these other substances, and is probably the least recommended of the group for experimentation. However, all herbal drugs have been noted by one person or another as producing unpleasant side effects or as simply being ineffective. Herbal drugs are generally not regulated and there are occasional reports of these substances containing toxins, though these occurrences are becoming particularly rare in industrialised countries in recent years, due to heightened media scrutiny of homeopathic drugs.
It is also important to understand that herbal medicines are drugs. These plants contain organic, bioactive substances that cross the blood brain barrier and act upon your brain just as synthetic drugs do. In fact, many pharmaceuticals are synthesised versions of bioactive substances naturally occurring in plants and animals. The only difference is, you get a much higher purity of the substance in synthetic form than you would in organic form.
Herbs can also have toxic and deleterious effects. Fortunately, most herbal medicines are low enough in potency that they are well tolerated and non-addictive.
There are several. And your doctor may suggest one or more. Again, the best advice is to proceed with caution and carefully research any new drug you are considering. A few are mentioned below.
Tegretol (carbamazepine): an anti-seizure drug. Some studies have shown this drug to be effective in reducing certain physical withdrawal symptoms. Others have shown it to be ineffective. Testimonials regarding the use of Tegretol are mixed.
Neurontin (gabapentin): primarily a pain medication and used as an adjunctive anti-seizure drug, Neurontin has been been implicated as alleviating certain physical withdrawal symptoms. Testimonials are mixed and they are too few for reliable generalization.
Lyrica (Pregabalin): primarily an anticonvulsant and used as an adjunctive anti-seizure drug, Lyrica helps greatly with the symptoms of anxiety, insomnia and other physical withdrawal symptoms
Beta blockers (e.g. Inderal): these may help with heart palpitations, hypertension, as well as shakes/tremors. Some beta blockers cross the blood/brain barrier, and may be mildly addictive, though the official medical literature states that they are non-addictive. However, that same literature also recommends that they not be discontinued abruptly. Do not take a beta blocker unless you are seriously troubled by any of the above-mentioned symptoms. Even then, you should either take them at the lowest dose possible, or take them situationally (as the symptom emerges). Beta blockers do not directly reduce anxiety, but they can alleviate some of the physical symptoms associated with panic attacks, which may indirectly help to reduce the associated anxiety level.
WHAT ABOUT HERBS AND OTHER HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES - DO ANY OF THOSE HELP THE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS?
Maybe. Everyone's experience is different. Acupuncture, massage therapy, and chiropractic have been commented on, but there is little conclusive data as to their effectiveness in relieving withdrawal symptoms. As for herbal remedies, all of the following have been mentioned as occasionally helpful to one person or another: Valerian, Kava Kava, St. John's Wort, 5htp, SAMe, Melatonin, GABA, Chamomile, and Rescue Remedy***.
With very few exceptions, the majority of these have been found to be helpful in only a few cases, and several people have felt that their withdrawal symptoms were heightened by taking one or more of these substances. Of the entire group mentioned, only two have been singled out by a fairly large number of people as especially helpful: chamomile tea and Rescue Remedy***. Keep in mind that even those herbal substances which you find helpful may only work where your symptoms are relatively mild. For example, chamomile tea might relieve mild agitation, but is very unlikely to bring you out of a full blown panic attack. However, there are breathing and relaxation methods that can help to alleviate panic attacks.
Kava is noted as creating more adverse reactions than some of these other substances, and is probably the least recommended of the group for experimentation. However, all herbal drugs have been noted by one person or another as producing unpleasant side effects or as simply being ineffective. Herbal drugs are generally not regulated and there are occasional reports of these substances containing toxins, though these occurrences are becoming particularly rare in industrialised countries in recent years, due to heightened media scrutiny of homeopathic drugs.
It is also important to understand that herbal medicines are drugs. These plants contain organic, bioactive substances that cross the blood brain barrier and act upon your brain just as synthetic drugs do. In fact, many pharmaceuticals are synthesised versions of bioactive substances naturally occurring in plants and animals. The only difference is, you get a much higher purity of the substance in synthetic form than you would in organic form.
Herbs can also have toxic and deleterious effects. Fortunately, most herbal medicines are low enough in potency that they are well tolerated and non-addictive.
StaySedated
Bluelighter
idk if this has been mentioned, but caffeine can act against(antagonize) benzos(and other GABAergics with a similar mechanism) and reduce their effect. however, this effect is dose dependent for both and generally once caffeine's major effects has worn off this effect is almost non-existent. still, if one is tapering or detoxing off benzos, caffeine should be completely avoided.
also, barbiturates are esp. dangerous mixed with benzos due to the way they act on GABA and combining may synergize dangerously. the same goes for alcohol to a lesser extent. opiates can be dangerous on combination, but lowered doses can reduce this risk. still it would be wise to avoid this combo if you're not tolerant to some extent to one of or both drugs.
lastly: combining benzos with any of the following may lead to problems. these include hypnotic "z-drugs"(ambien, lunesta, sonata), sedative antihistamines(diphenhydramine, doxylamine, etc.), sedating herbs esp. ones that are GABAergic(valerian, kava, skullcap; kratom as well due to it's opiate like action), certain antidepressants(tricyclics, trazodone), and other depressant drugs including (OTC drugs- phenibut, DXM; Rx drugs- carisoprodol/Soma, pregabalin/Lyrica, gabapentin/Neurontin, quetiapine/Seroquel; Street drugs- methaqualone, ketamine, GHB/GBL).
also, barbiturates are esp. dangerous mixed with benzos due to the way they act on GABA and combining may synergize dangerously. the same goes for alcohol to a lesser extent. opiates can be dangerous on combination, but lowered doses can reduce this risk. still it would be wise to avoid this combo if you're not tolerant to some extent to one of or both drugs.
lastly: combining benzos with any of the following may lead to problems. these include hypnotic "z-drugs"(ambien, lunesta, sonata), sedative antihistamines(diphenhydramine, doxylamine, etc.), sedating herbs esp. ones that are GABAergic(valerian, kava, skullcap; kratom as well due to it's opiate like action), certain antidepressants(tricyclics, trazodone), and other depressant drugs including (OTC drugs- phenibut, DXM; Rx drugs- carisoprodol/Soma, pregabalin/Lyrica, gabapentin/Neurontin, quetiapine/Seroquel; Street drugs- methaqualone, ketamine, GHB/GBL).
K'd-OUT-in-AZ
Bluelighter
Has anyone successfully gotten off benzodiazepines after long term use? And what was your route?
I've been off them completely for 10 days. Still experience some anxiety and insomnia but not as bad as I thought. I just got off my using the Valium taper. Once I got down to 1mg of Klonopin I switched over to 20mg Diazepam. One month later I switched to 10mg Diazepam. One month later 4mg and one month later went off it. I had great luck being on Lyrica which is what was the most useful medication during my taper. I've been on Seroquel for the sleep although that wasn't directly prescribed for the taper.
I've done this once before years ago but relapsed, hopefully it won't happen again. Last time I just directly tapered off the Klonopin without help from the Diazepam.
I've been off them completely for 10 days. Still experience some anxiety and insomnia but not as bad as I thought. I just got off my using the Valium taper. Once I got down to 1mg of Klonopin I switched over to 20mg Diazepam. One month later I switched to 10mg Diazepam. One month later 4mg and one month later went off it. I had great luck being on Lyrica which is what was the most useful medication during my taper. I've been on Seroquel for the sleep although that wasn't directly prescribed for the taper.
I've done this once before years ago but relapsed, hopefully it won't happen again. Last time I just directly tapered off the Klonopin without help from the Diazepam.
mgrady3
Bluelighter
^^ It all comes down to dosage with most of what you listed.
I was Rx'd Ambien and Xanax at the same time, Trazadone and Klonopin, Mirtazipine and Klonopin, and have used xanax or klonopin with valerian as well.
Benzo-s in combination with any GABA-ergic drug, or any CNS depressant, or other form of sedative can be trouble, but its totally dosage dependent.
A massive dose of a benzo plus a large dose of Ambien could spell respiratory depression but a low dose of both of them could be just fine. These are things that should be discussed with a doctor because it only takes one time to get the dosage wrong with any of the above combinations to be disastrous.
(you beat me to the next post, K'd Out) mine was directed towards StaySedated
I was Rx'd Ambien and Xanax at the same time, Trazadone and Klonopin, Mirtazipine and Klonopin, and have used xanax or klonopin with valerian as well.
Benzo-s in combination with any GABA-ergic drug, or any CNS depressant, or other form of sedative can be trouble, but its totally dosage dependent.
A massive dose of a benzo plus a large dose of Ambien could spell respiratory depression but a low dose of both of them could be just fine. These are things that should be discussed with a doctor because it only takes one time to get the dosage wrong with any of the above combinations to be disastrous.
(you beat me to the next post, K'd Out) mine was directed towards StaySedated
mgrady3
Bluelighter
In response to the herbal stuff
Chamomile has been a mainstay of mine lately. I have previously used Valerian but felt that I was needing to take too much of it to get any effect, around 4-6 capsules [1200mg or so]
I enjoy making my own sleepy time-tea mixtures, you can bulk buy all the herbs you need quite cheap. Chamomile, spearmint, hibiscus, orang blossom, to name a few but you could also add lemon balm, skullcap, valerian, kava, raspberry leaf, and many others.
Chamomile has been a mainstay of mine lately. I have previously used Valerian but felt that I was needing to take too much of it to get any effect, around 4-6 capsules [1200mg or so]
I enjoy making my own sleepy time-tea mixtures, you can bulk buy all the herbs you need quite cheap. Chamomile, spearmint, hibiscus, orang blossom, to name a few but you could also add lemon balm, skullcap, valerian, kava, raspberry leaf, and many others.