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Benzos benzodiazepine half live and dependency

^yea thats messed up. i took 4 years off and noticed the same thing. and the really cool effects i did get(which took more than i thought id need) stopped real fast. ive slowed it down over the past few weeks and am going a full 7 starting tomorrow. even tho it wont help as much as a longer break , i have alot of anxiety so im going to use it alot less than i was, once the week is up. even if i have to pick up a few vicodin and take 5 mg every other day to help with relaxing. it is ridiculous tho, that benzo tolerance... thanks for the input and advice guys.

on another small note, do you guys think its normal to require 1.5mg of xanax to get a noticable effect. i mean i get a noticable effect from 1 1mg of xanax but its light and short lived. im just trying to gauge where im at. i think i have a natural tolerance to benzos, i wonder if that would make me more susceptible too WD's, or less. hmm...the more we find out, the more questions we have it seems, Lol...
 
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Well my story is little different then. At least what I remember.

I used and also abused benzos heavily from 2004 to 2008 taking sometimes 100-200mg diazepam a day and drinking beer with it and I was kind of sober. Also used clonazepam, midazolam, temazepam, xanax etc. But not usually together.

When I stopped it at 2008 I felt derealization and depersonalisation and didn't at the time wanted to relate that to my benzo use but instead I thought I have some serious illness in me. Also was anxious. But now when I'm thinking it it was just kind of a same feeling I had befored I started benzos on 2004. Before that I had suffered mental issues like severe insomnia, unreal fears and depilitating anxiety. Well, benzos fixed that and I only returned to my baseline after 4 years of feeling normal (saying normal I mean what I felt when I was young) by using and abusing big amounts benzos. Also I would mention I was in peak condition through that time by doing two jobs at a time and was also two years in school and got very good grades there etc. So benzos didn't really ruined my life but instead allowed me to live on my full potential.

So when I first tried benzos again after about half year sober... yes infact I didn't got the same effect from that 1mg or 2mg xanax what I did get when I first tried it. But after about 1,5 years sober (not benzos but some alcohol yes) I get xanax and I would say the effects were as good as when I first tried it. So fro me it wasn't that long to return to baseline or allmost baseline.
 
i quit benzos a couple of months ago, transfered the addiction to g then booze, not huge amounts, rather small amounts, but kindof defeats the point of coming off benzoss, oh and i prefered the benzos to the booze by far, and allthough i don't consider myself an alcoholic i probably technically am ATM, i need to get back on meds lol
 
^yea i function on them better as well, but i dont want to get hooked so i am working on 7 days without benzos. im workin gon the 4th day with not much of an issue. im glad i didnt get a dependency, and am going to finish out my week just to be on the safe side. ive made sure the past few weeks to take at least 3 days off between uses, until i felt ready to take a full week off. whos really ever ready...
 
OK here it is, BUT think hard and NOT "drug thinking" if you know what I mean, How many times a month on average to you HONESTLY need to take your medication in a situation that you (again honestly now) would give up, run away from, embarrass yourself etc.
I also need to know how many times per month you could "bite the bullet" and deal with whatever issue without taking medication.

(Please answer both even if it seems obvious, there is a good point to these questions).
 
tricomb said:
Shorter half life does not equal more severe withdrawals. Think methadone, buprenorphine, etc.

As far as not getting dependent, I think that's actually more difficult with long-acting medication since you constantly have benzodiazepines on your GABA receptors. If anything's less dependent, even by a tiny amount, I would think that something shorter acting, like say triazolam or alprazolam, where you actually have time with nothing on your receptors, is less likely to cause dependence, but that's just my $0.02
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Interestingly, my psychiatrist said shorter-lasting benzos are more addictive than those with a longer half-life. Therefore, he's keeping me on diazepam.
 
its not a set number of times, its just situational really. i am a very awkward person, and they make things not awkward for me, if that makes any sense? i am very tightly wound on a daily basis. im an over thinker, a worrier, and often it gets so bad my muscles feel wound up like a fork spinning a pile of pasta.i also get really irritated, and easily annoyed, like no patience whatsoever. if i had to i could easily survive without them, but if i can use them sparingly, ill build self control and seems to be helping my brain figure out not to be anxious.
 
tricomb said:
Shorter half life does not equal more severe withdrawals. Think methadone, buprenorphine, etc.

As far as not getting dependent, I think that's actually more difficult with long-acting medication since you constantly have benzodiazepines on your GABA receptors. If anything's less dependent, even by a tiny amount, I would think that something shorter acting, like say triazolam or alprazolam, where you actually have time with nothing on your receptors, is less likely to cause dependence, but that's just my $0.02
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I have to agree with you. Usually doctors are saying the opposite and it might be true as from psychological aspects. Looking from mostly physiological aspect I think it would be much safer to use shorter acting benzos. Infact, I didn't developed nearly as much tolerance to benzos when I used xanax 2-4mg or temazepam 20-40mg at evening everyday (at least six month) than what I developed in short time with clonazepam daily 1,5mg. When I replaced clonazepam for xanax for a few days 2mg-3mg taken at evening and I developed much more withdrawals till the evening that I have had during times I used only those short acting.

Of course there is mental aspect with short acting that may in many people lead to more frequent dosing. That doesn't undo the fact that drug levels that are effecting in receptors are anyway constantly much higher with long acting than with reasonable use of short acting (ex. once a day) when time goes on and that will mean also more severe physical addiction. So mental addiction might be a little bigger with short acting but when you are aware of those things I'm thinking that to myself as an benzo addict in future I will stay away from most of long acting and use only short acting like alprazolam etc. in moderation. Or when using long acting there has to be much bigger gap between uses to let your brains to be at normal or near normal state for a while.
 
shreddedlettuce said:
OK here it is, BUT think hard and NOT "drug thinking" if you know what I mean, How many times a month on average to you HONESTLY need to take your medication in a situation that you (again honestly now) would give up, run away from, embarrass yourself etc.
I also need to know how many times per month you could "bite the bullet" and deal with whatever issue without taking medication.

(Please answer both even if it seems obvious, there is a good point to these questions).
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This.
If I medicated everytime I had anxiety.... I'd be benzod all the time. I think that taking benzodiazepines for anxiety daily is only going to exacerbate the underlying conditions. It's one thing for PANIC, but I mean anxiety? At some point you have to put your foot down and become aware of the rationalizations/justifications we make to make our drug use "okay".
 
^i would be too but is it really worth the struggle all the time? My life is severely impacted by anxiety. I can't do things, can't have friends, can't do certain jobs, struggle in school because of having to go to class or work in groups. It's affected my life to the point that i feel defined by anxiety. I know that you've been through a long period of benzo use that didn't work out but if i were to stay at 5-10mg of diazepam per day for the rest of my life is it that big of a deal? so long as i dont abuse them that is.

I've always wondered about the question OP poses. I use valium as needed right now but with it's super long half life i probably have benzos on my receptors most if not all of the time. I use valium 1-2x per week and ativan when i need it as well. I get pretty bad rebound anxiety when i take days off or run out of my valium early but i can quit for a few weeks without having true benzo withdrawal symptoms. For this reason i'd like my doc to switch me to xanax but he doesn't give me much wiggle room considering he has mentioned that he knows i had a problem with benzos in the past (probably in my medical records somewhere).

the only issue with short acting benzos is that they can cause rebound anxiety after a while but then again it's probably better to have your body be clear from benzos more often than have them on the receptors all the time. I'm still not sure though.
 
Oh it's really worth the struggle. You would probably be doing so much better than you ever imagined possible.

I used to be dependent on benzodiazepines therapeutically for many years, and I'm doing much much better now than I ever was whilst dependent.

IMO, relying on benzodiazepines every single day for ANY reason is a bad idea.
 
Aphex747 said:
its not a set number of times, its just situational really. i am a very awkward person, and they make things not awkward for me, if that makes any sense? i am very tightly wound on a daily basis. im an over thinker, a worrier, and often it gets so bad my muscles feel wound up like a fork spinning a pile of pasta.i also get really irritated, and easily annoyed, like no patience whatsoever. if i had to i could easily survive without them, but if i can use them sparingly, ill build self control and seems to be helping my brain figure out not to be anxious.
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So this is my response to those two questions I asked. And sorry if I am repeating what others above me have posted.

So
1. You did say "if i had to i could easily survive without them" - (yeah I know, in a perfect world maybe) - but you did say "easily", which is a good thing.
2. You mentioned the following problem issues "its not a set number of times, its just situational really. i am a very awkward person, and they make things not awkward for me, if that makes any sense? i am very tightly wound on a daily basis. im an over thinker, a worrier,"

Ok the bad news is that taking any benzo to make it through those issues in 2. would probably work. But taking benzos to overcome and take control of those issues won't.
The good news is
1. That you do have the option of trying to overcome one issue at a time without benzos, but having them on hand if it goes "pear shaped".
2. The benzos that are prescribed to you are there to help you overcome issues, not to just take them just to get through it.

So try surviving with "semi"-out of them.
Use them properly and your whole life could change for the better.
Not using them properly would be chaos, it's as simple as that.
 
If what your telling us is true then addiction seems to be a minimal threat. You're taking reasonable doses and being cautious about it. Remember benzos are usually for short term treatment. Coming from someone who has severe social and general anxiety I believe you should ask your doctor about ssri's. Don't get me wrong I love taking ativan, xanax, kpins, and valiums recreationally and they do help with my anxiety. But I would just stick with an ssri like lexapro. Minimal side effect for me and it has worked wonders.
 
RobotRipping said:
@Tricomb: Thx for your input, these kinds of responses keep me from going back to daily Benzos treatment
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I'm so glad! It's really tempting sometimes to go back to daily dosing but I can't do that knowing what I know. That would be like shooting myself in the foot knowing its a bad idea.


Be strong man, it's the right thing to do. With time, your anxiety may or may not improve, but what DOES improve is your coping skills. You may feel just as anxious, but it may not bother you as much.
 
tricomb said:
I'm so glad! It's really tempting sometimes to go back to daily dosing but I can't do that knowing what I know. That would be like shooting myself in the foot knowing its a bad idea.


Be strong man, it's the right thing to do. With time, your anxiety may or may not improve, but what DOES improve is your coping skills. You may feel just as anxious, but it may not bother you as much.
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I'm wondering is it always a good idea to try to be without benzos? I mean I'm looking at my situation for example. When I was out from rehab 2008 I suffered anxiety without benzos and couldn't function very well. I wasn't able to work and my hobbies suffered. Two years I tried to survive without benzos and then finally I gave up and took xanax. Then my problems were again fixed. I was able to go back to work and was again much more social and I could do my hobbies with more energy.

Now I'm again trying to be without benzos because as you have said I try to believe also that it is better without them and maybe now I'm able to cope the reality without benzos. I really hope so. And I have really fought for it through extremly difficult withdrawal process with multiple relapses.

Anyhow if situation isn't improving much with time and you are constantly suffering from anxiety, sleep problems etc. (as you mentioned could continue) that is very unhealthy situation. Despite the fact that you could mentally just push trough panic attacks, social anxiety and all the other symptoms and cope with it it will harm your body with time and make you susceptible to different kind of healt problems.

If I remember correctly there is even found connection between heart disease and panic disorder. If your body is constantly or often suffering from panic, anxiety etc. it will lead to problems even if you were mentally able to manage it. Too much cortisol and cathecolamines are propably consequences wich WILL do harm to your body over time. That could damage your blood vessels, heart and cortisol can also cause fat accumulation, muscle and bone loss, memory problems etc. Also you could suffer burn out and adrenaline fatique over time wich will only worsen anxiety, fatique and panics. So is it really worth fighting even if you could? I don't think so. Not allways.

Edit: I mean what are the benefits being without benzos? I really try to believe it is better for the long term and thats what I'm aiming right now but on the other hand there is constantly in my mind: why? Its because I have allways felt that my life is better with benzos and they haven't done any harm to my cognitive or physical skills but instead they seem to make them better. So I'm not sure about this thing. Please tell me advantages you have gained by being without benzos to encourage me in my tryings to be benzo free.
 
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^that's the constant debate i have in my head. I like to hear from others who have been through it already and there's always a common consensus that over time your anxiety levels will lessen without benzos. I've looked at many studies though and there are negatives and positives to both approaches. The thing that gets me with benzos is that it's all or nothing and once you are on them it is almost impossible to get back off them so it's a serious decision. I fight with myself over it but deep down i think it is better to learn to cope with anxiety without daily medication. If you aren't taking benzos daily then you can still use them as needed without too many issues, so i think that's the best of both worlds.
 
RobotRipping said:
The thing that gets me with benzos is that it's all or nothing
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In the long term, to be one of the few people who have never thought those exact words, would be the people that benzos work for (in the long run/ or stopping once they've done their job).
To everyone else, it's a ticking time bomb - Me included.
 
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