Benzo withdrawal + Opioid W/D At Same time 8+ years - Any Suggestions?

[Supeudol]

This isn't my first time detoxing, but about my third or fourth time detoxing at least from opiates, and probably my second or third from benzodiazepines.

Benzo withdrawal is fucking brutal. I've been using both extremely high doses of benzo's and opiates for 8+ years. I had to goto the hospital here because I lost my sense of touch, and my brain felt like it was disconnected from my body. They kept me in there for 13 days and did a Valium taper starting at 60mg/day dropping down by 5mg per day, and a Morphine taper at the same time dropping down from 90mg by
10mg per day. Its been two days since I've been released from the hospital, and the meds i'm currently on are Metoprolol 50mg BID, Clonidine 0.1mg BID, Lyrica 150mg BID, Effexor XR 150mg in the morning, and 100mg Trazodone at night. When I went to Hospital the night of August 31st my pupils weren't even responding to light. Holy fuck never been in so much distress in my life. I'm still suffering currently. My stomach feels like its burning off and on, headaches, shakiness, tactile sensations (goosebumps) all over my body. Fuck this sucks. I've been on and off Lyrica for like 6 years or something if I remember correctly. When I see my family doc, I think I am going to get him to up to 600mg/day because thats the dose I was on a few years back, and seemed to help with benzo w/d a lot more.

Any other suggestions? I have no energy, also a lot of diahhrea and shit. Man this blows. Benzo withdrawal is no fucking joke. Way worse than Opioid withdrawal, I don't care what anyone says. And going through both at the same time is complete and utter hell. I really want to get off the Effexor, cause I think its making things worse.. been on it for a year I think or something. But been on and off different SSRI's previous for about 6-7 years.

They did bloodwork on me there, and in the ER, my legs and muscles were twitching so much I thought I was going to seize up for sure, but I've never had a seizure in my life. I don't have any Veins that are visible on my arms hardly dso it took about 3-4 nurses to take blood and get an IV in me while in severe distress. And all I got was 1mg of Ativan Sublingual after that, didn't even touch me at all. So about 7 hours later they gave me another 3mg Ativan Sublingual, still didn't touch me, an hour later, another 3mg of Ativan Sublingual, and then about two hours later when I finally got moved up into the Psychiatry Unit, another 3mg of Ativan Sublingual, still no relief.
My Benzo tolerance is through the fucking roof.

I'd like to get off the Effexor XR slowly, and possibly up the Pregabalin to 300mg BID. As I've been on Pregabalin for quite some time, I think I've gained some tolerance to it. Whats really bothering me is lack of sleep, tactile sensations, and tachycardia (even with Metoprolol) although every time I take my blood pressure at home it shows my heart rate to be 77-84 BPM and my BP to be in Normal range, so maybe just feels like my hearts racing? But its scary. BTW I am 25 years old. Any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated!

Also I should probably mention that my Phenazepam experience about 1 year ago nearly took my life, blacked out for two weeks, and this was with liquid dosing of Phenazepam + Oxycodone at the same time, and I was hospitalized for 12 hours for that and don't remember any of it. So probably really hammered the fuck out of my GABA-A Receptors.

K'D'OUT'INAZ - I know you are out there somewhere buddy and have lengthy experience with benzo's and opioids as well.

Thanks all.

 

[ONandOFF777]

My suggestion would be to talk to your Dr and see if he will be willing to give you Phenobarbital to help with the benzo withdrawal to get you stabilized, and then taper down with that over 3-4 weeks.

I have kicked very heavy benzo addictions a few times using Phenobarbital and it has been the only thing that really worked and it was actually fairly painless.

My last major benzo addiction was crazy. I went through about 1500 15mg midazolam pill mainly IV in about 3 months and I tapered with 100mg Phenobarbital pills for just a little over a month and even at the end I was able to get at least two hours of sleep at night. It was nothing like coming off of benzos even with tapering.

One of the biggest things I have found when going through benzo withdrawal(or even finishing up the phenobarb taper) is that you just have to accept the fact that you need to be off of them and that your not going to sleep much. Try to find something that is not active that will keep your mind occupied for log periods of time. At the end of my last taper with pheno I started watching the LOST series and I found that kept my mind occupied and even would allow me to somehow relax because it kind of put me into a hypnotic state. Since the I find that when I binge too long on benzo and even get minor wd symptoms watching TV seems to be able to help my body and mid relax…interesting

 

[Supeudol]

My suggestion would be to talk to your Dr and see if he will be willing to give you Phenobarbital to help with the benzo withdrawal to get you stabilized, and then taper down with that over 3-4 weeks.

I have kicked very heavy benzo addictions a few times using Phenobarbital and it has been the only thing that really worked and it was actually fairly painless.

My last major benzo addiction was crazy. I went through about 1500 15mg midazolam pill mainly IV in about 3 months and I tapered with 100mg Phenobarbital pills for just a little over a month and even at the end I was able to get at least two hours of sleep at night. It was nothing like coming off of benzos even with tapering.

One of the biggest things I have found when going through benzo withdrawal(or even finishing up the phenobarb taper) is that you just have to accept the fact that you need to be off of them and that your not going to sleep much. Try to find something that is not active that will keep your mind occupied for log periods of time. At the end of my last taper with pheno I started watching the LOST series and I found that kept my mind occupied and even would allow me to somehow relax because it kind of put me into a hypnotic state. Since the I find that when I binge too long on benzo and even get minor wd symptoms watching TV seems to be able to help my body and mid relax…interesting

Thanks for the advice OnandOFF777. Appreciate it. Yes, I find TV does help. If I could get out and exercise that would help too I bet. I also got some fake Xanax 2mg ONAX bars that tasted like drywall over 2 weeks ago, smelt like some kind of plant or something and when I took 3 bars, had absolutely no effect, but the next day I lost my sense of touch and my sensory sensations were so fucked, and my pupils were dilated for days. I don't know what the hell was in those, but its scary if you order anything off the net these days, let alone the streets.

They did bloodwork at the Hospital when I was there, and my kidneys and liver were fine, and so was my CBC and everything else. My Urine test tested positive for Benzodiazepines, Opioids, and Cannabis, so I don't know.

Does anyone else get shaky hands coming off benzo's even off a valium taper?

 

[whippa craka]

With zero disrespect, I am very curious as to how you let your drug usage get so out of hand, prescribed or not. I would love to know if you would like to share.

 

[Addyman]

I detoxed from taking a daily dose of around 10mg Klonopin daily

Mine was a cold turkey withdrawal and it seemed to be nothing compared to yours

Jesus Christ... good luck...

Some people don't understand Alcohol/Benzo withdrawal can easily be worse than opiate withdrawal (and both at the same time? surprised you didn't die)

 

[Supeudol]

Anyone else ever experience the 'bugs crawling on your skin' type feeling from heavy benzo abuse? Like 'tactile sensations'? Is there a medication that would help these symptoms?

 

[Addyman]

Only thing I can suggest is benadryl maybe?

 

[RobotRipping]

Anyone else ever experience the 'bugs crawling on your skin' type feeling from heavy benzo abuse? Like 'tactile sensations'? Is there a medication that would help these symptoms?

yes I get this really bad, even during my taper it would get bad whenever i dropped my dose. I also get this feeling like someone is scratching a chalk board in front of me all the time. I found codeine helped a bit, thankfully the feeling goes away eventually. I also get shaky hands, even during a taper.

 

[effie]

Anyone else ever experience the 'bugs crawling on your skin' type feeling from heavy benzo abuse? Like 'tactile sensations'? Is there a medication that would help these symptoms?

Only thing I can suggest is benadryl maybe?

I'm not sure an anti-cholinergic drug such as Benadryl would help - perhaps at a low dose, but at high doses I imagine it would make matters worse..

I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would help, will have a think though.

 

[Violenza666]

Go to the ER. You could have a seizure.. or worse.

 

[Supeudol]

yes I get this really bad, even during my taper it would get bad whenever i dropped my dose. I also get this feeling like someone is scratching a chalk board in front of me all the time. I found codeine helped a bit, thankfully the feeling goes away eventually. I also get shaky hands, even during a taper.

Thats the exact same feeling I get!! Finally someone else gets one of the same withdrawal symptoms from benzo's as I do.

Thanks for all your suggestions everyone and contributing here. Now If I can just find something that eases those tactile sensations, and the cold sweats underneath my armpits, that would be a Godsend! I know Opioids take away most of the tactile sensations, but that is not an option as I have been addicted to opioids for far far too long and my tolerance is insane. (Not trying to Dicksize here).

It is funny, cause when I take my 100mg Trazodone at night, it eases up the tactile sensations to a 'reasonable level'. Anyone know why this is?

 

[effie]

Trazadone is known to be anxiolytic and hypnotic, and is an alpha1-adrenergic blocker which makes it quite sedating.. but it doesn't have the same anti-cholinergic symptoms that a lot of similar drugs do. I don't know that an anti-cholinergic would make the tactile sensations worse, it just feels like it might.. a sedating antihistamine could be worth a try in low doses though.

In other words, I don't really know, haha. Glad the trazadone works though!

Have you tried loperamine for your diarrhoea, and Tylenol (APAP) to help try to regulate your temperature?

Apart from that, all I can think of is the standard stuff - good hydration, good nutrition, rest even if you can't sleep, distract yourself as much as possible.. I presume the hospital thought it was safe for you to go home, so hopefully you don't need to go back, but I agree with Violenza that if things are getting worse or you are really not coping, do go back and get some more medical assistance..

Good luck, you can do this

 

[Supeudol]

Trazadone is known to be anxiolytic and hypnotic, and is an alpha1-adrenergic blocker which makes it quite sedating.. but it doesn't have the same anti-cholinergic symptoms that a lot of similar drugs do. I don't know that an anti-cholinergic would make the tactile sensations worse, it just feels like it might.. a sedating antihistamine could be worth a try in low doses though.

In other words, I don't really know, haha. Glad the trazadone works though!

Have you tried loperamine for your diarrhoea, and Tylenol (APAP) to help try to regulate your temperature?

Apart from that, all I can think of is the standard stuff - good hydration, good nutrition, rest even if you can't sleep, distract yourself as much as possible.. I presume the hospital thought it was safe for you to go home, so hopefully you don't need to go back, but I agree with Violenza that if things are getting worse or you are really not coping, do go back and get some more medical assistance..

Good luck, you can do this

Yes, I use Loperamide for the diarrhoea, but I try not to use too much. My temperature has been normal this entire time, even in the ER, and at the hospital. I also take my temperature daily, and even though
sometimes I look flushed in the face, my temperature is always completely normal.

I am thinking of asking my doc when I see him to prescribe me some Hydroxyzine (Atarax). As when I was in Rehab before, the Psychiatrist put me on a low dose of that and that seemed to help sleep as well. And I am pretty damn sure that Hydroxyzine is much safer and non addictive compared to Zopiclone (which is useless for me anyway because my GABA-A Receptors are hammered.)

I get a lot of headaches, but I rarely ever take Tylenol. Usually just Ibuprofen, since it works way better than APAP for me.

Thanks for the help and advice guys. What do you guys think of the Atarax (Hydroxyzine) idea?

 

[effie]

^ go for it, a sedating antihistamine is a good choice for sleep. You can get some sedating 1st generation antihistamines OTC here in the UK (promethazine being the best I have found) but I'm not sure about elsewhere.

 

[Roger&Me]

Anyone else ever experience the 'bugs crawling on your skin' type feeling from heavy benzo abuse? Like 'tactile sensations'? Is there a medication that would help these symptoms?

From the Ashton Manual:

Acute withdrawal symptoms: The most prominent effect of benzodiazepines is an anti-anxiety effect - that is why they were developed as tranquillisers. As a consequence, nearly all the acute symptoms of withdrawal are those of anxiety. They have been described in anxiety states in people who have never touched a benzodiazepine and were recognised as psychological and physical symptoms of anxiety long before benzodiazepines were discovered. However, certain symptom clusters are particularly characteristic of benzodiazepine withdrawal. These include hypersensitivity to sensory stimuli (sound, light, touch, taste and smell) and perceptual distortions (for example sensation of the floor undulating, feeling of motion, impressions of walls or floors tilting, sensation of walking on cotton wool). There also appears to be a higher incidence than usually seen in anxiety states of depersonalisation, feelings of unreality, and tingling and numbness. Visual hallucinations, distortion of the body image ("my head feels like a football/balloon"), feelings of insects crawling on the skin, muscle twitching and weight loss are not uncommon in benzodiazepine withdrawal but unusual in anxiety states.

This is a rather common withdrawal symptom.

As a general rule, medications do not improve benzo withdrawal symptoms. Adding extra meds will usually just serve to aggravate the nervous system, and make withdrawal worse. I think you'll find that for the foreseeable future your system will be very sensitive to all chemicals: alcohol, caffeine, etc etc

The only thing that cures benzo withdrawal symptoms is time, and plenty of it. But they do get better, you just have wait it out. Best of luck, I've been through benzo withdrawal myself and its really no fun. Stay strong.

 

[Supeudol]

From the Ashton Manual:



This is a rather common withdrawal symptom.

As a general rule, medications do not improve benzo withdrawal symptoms. Adding extra meds will usually just serve to aggravate the nervous system, and make withdrawal worse. I think you'll find that for the foreseeable future your system will be very sensitive to all chemicals: alcohol, caffeine, etc etc

The only thing that cures benzo withdrawal symptoms is time, and plenty of it. But they do get better, you just have wait it out. Best of luck, I've been through benzo withdrawal myself and its really no fun. Stay strong.

Yes I understand this as well. But if I remember correctly, even when I am on benzodiazepines alone, I still get the 'crawling skin feeling', unless I'm on very high doses of benzo's I suppose. When I am on Opioids + Benzo's, these tactile sensations go away completely. GHB also takes away these tactile sensations.

I have access to pharm grade GHB powder, and GHB is a GABA-B Agonist. I understand adding more drugs is not the answer to recovering from my benzodiazepine withdrawal, but would a small amount of GHB used every now and then jeopardize my recovery? (BTW - I have used GHB on and off for years, never really had too much of an issue with it.)
I am just saying since it is a GABA-B Agonist, and not a GABA-A Agonist, would it still fuck up benzodiazepine recovery?

Thanks, Cheers.

 

[effie]

^ In theory using it occasionally would be fine, but if it provides respite from unpleasant symptoms it's going to be very difficult to stop you use from creeping up. Personally I don't know anyone who's used GHB/GBL regularly who hasn't developed a problem with it (including myself) so I might be a little biased, but it's easy for your use to sneak up on you. I would be really worried that you would just be swapping one substance dependence for another. There's a lot of info on GHB/GBL addiction here.

 

[Opaner]

I was RX'd to clonazepam for severe panic attacks, I believe I was told to take 2mg 3 times a day. I usually did a little more then I was suppose to do. And I never really felt any HORRIBLE WD symptoms except the Restless Leg Syndrome. I actually had that before I ever started doing any sort of drug, but I can say it is 10x worse when you are WD'ing. Luckily I had an RX to medicine called Requip and it worked amazingly. And its very easy to get, and you can't abuse it!

 

[Supeudol]

I would like to get off the Effexor XR, as I just feel 'bug eyed' all the time and generally kind of weird. The only SSRI that had really worked for me previously was Paxil, and I did fine at 10-20mg of Paxil only.
I am currently at 150mg of Effexor XR per day, I am seeing my doc this week, so hopefully going to get him to drop the dose. Do you guys think this is a good idea right now, or not really?

 

[Roger&Me]

I have access to pharm grade GHB powder, and GHB is a GABA-B Agonist. I understand adding more drugs is not the answer to recovering from my benzodiazepine withdrawal, but would a small amount of GHB used every now and then jeopardize my recovery? (BTW - I have used GHB on and off for years, never really had too much of an issue with it.)
I am just saying since it is a GABA-B Agonist, and not a GABA-A Agonist, would it still fuck up benzodiazepine recovery?

Thanks, Cheers.

Yes, using GHB (or any other drug that acts on either type of GABA receptor) will prolong the duration of your symptoms and increase your risk for developing protracted withdrawal syndrome. There is physical coupling and cross-talk between GABAB and GABAA receptors, you can't selectively effect just one type of GABA receptor without it effecting the other type as well.