Tapering Benzo withdrawal: Losing my mind

[Captain.Heroin]

I couldn't get back into using buprenorphine without getting addicted again. It took me a long time to admit it to myself.

 

[BomBayAndChips]

idk if its just my mentality, but i hate that type of help. its like they only "care" just to get paid, meanwhile im here, with that in the back of my mind, highly depressed with a bad drug problem. its like only family(if they still care), or opening up to people like us, can make us better. people that know our pain, you know? it helped me. and shrooms with weed lol. hope nothing but the best for you bro

 

[cj]

How is it dosed?

Its liquid suspended in polyethylene glycol. I dose it with a needless syringe.


I am probably going to get strung back out again but the alternative is hell. True hell. I never got to the point where using benzos where hell. Maybe I will this time and I will have a reason to stay off them bur until then we can change the thread title to benzo withdrawal: Losing my mind to denial.

Either way I am firing my mental health team. Its just a business to them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't think black market benzos are a good idea for you cj. Is there any way you can get prescribed a low dose of clonazepam or diapzem, or better yet, Librium?

What is going on with the mental health folks you got working for you? I can totally understand how frustrating it is working with people in that industry. Most of the time it is like banging your head against a wall trying to reason with them. There are ways you can cope though, it just requires a lot of foresight, strategy and insight.

I think it is safe to safe we, particularly Moreaux, Herby, CH, NSA an myself are all happy to assist you with the necessary foresight plan, strategizing and investigation into your situation that would be required to work with them, but only if this is your wish.

 

[Moreaux]

Its liquid suspended in polyethylene glycol. I dose it with a needless syringe.


I am probably going to get strung back out again but the alternative is hell. True hell. I never got to the point where using benzos where hell. Maybe I will this time and I will have a reason to stay off them bur until then we can change the thread title to benzo withdrawal: Losing my mind to denial.

Either way I am firing my mental health team. Its just a business to them.

cj - short acting benzos are a terrible idea. Is there anyway you can hold off on those until you establish a new mental health team? Can you go to various AA and NA meetings and talk to others to see if they have any recommendations as to good mental health professionals?

Getting addicted to benzos again will make this entire hellish experience for naught, and the withdrawal the next time will be worse. Other food for thought is that there is a good chance the government will ban RC's in the near future, similar to the blanket ban in the UK and then what? You will have no alternatives and you will have to deal with it like you are now, but it will be worse...

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'll give you a call this evening to check in with you cj, if that is okay with you. Talk to you soon brother!

 

[swilow]

I thought I might share something of my own experience. Please let me know if you have any questions about this. I read this thread before bed last night and it stayed with me; I wish you all the best and I hope that my own suffering may provide some benefit for you.

I was addicted to benzos for probably 5-6 years, started on xanax and then went to diazepam. Dosage skyrocketed for me, very quickly for a few reasons I will examine. In comparison, I was not on huge doses, but I was taking between 100-150mg of diazepam a day. At this stage, I begun experiencing breakthrough/tolerance withdrawal and this never left me. I also began using opiates (codeine, then morphine, then heroin and finally all that maintenance stuff like methadone and suboxone) to combat some of the withdrawal.

At this point, I should mention that I have epilepsy. I had it pretty seriously as a child and was prescribed multiple anticonvulsants, mainly GABAergics. It seems likely that this was what caused my extreme benzo withdrawal syndrome. For me, the withdrawal from benzo's, even when tapering very slowly, was incredibly harsh- I had intense seizures (which I can rarely have anyway) as well as hourly absence seizures (ranging from fluttering eyelids to complete automatism). I hallucinated, I experienced psychosis, I was blacking out, I was diagnosed with everything from PTSD, bipolar to dissociative identity disorder (this after I revealed that I was sexually abused as a child). Truth was that my CNS was kindled from my childhood on GABAergics. Of course, I did not know this would happen and neither did the medical fraternity either apparently. No surpise, doctors rarely know shit about the truth of benzo's. Anyway, I manged to get off them via my glacially slow taper, and eventually went to a month long detox/rehab to get off opiates. I also ingested ayahuasca after this point as a way of healing my psyche and it fucking saved me. I don't neccesarily recommend that, but hey, just thought 'd mention.

Anyway, I stopped taking benzo's completely in 2011. I did not consume any for several years; in 2014 (I think) I got complacent and started to take stuff like diazepam, etizolam on the odd occasion. The effects were strong, so it appeared my brain had recovered, but the effects were no longer all that pleasurable- just a kind of dull tiredness, and after about 2 days I could be eating empty capsules for all the good it subjectively did. I avoided dependance; in fact, did not even contemplate it. At one stage, my girlfriend got some etizolam and I binged on it and diazeam for about two weeks and experienced very strong rebound withdrawal from this. It only lasted for 3-4 days, and was comparatively mild, but it told me that my brain had not, and is likely not going to, recover from both early childhood on GABAergics and then a large proportion of my twenties on them. The only GABAergic that I can take and not feel afraid of is GHB, and only occasionally. Alcohol gives me intense depression and anxiety the next day, even if I only have a glass of wine or a beer. I do not cope well with stress; I tend to almost dissociate and the world appears to be distant, unreal.

I guess I am trying to say that playing with benzo's, on and off, is really destructive and dangerous. These are simply not drugs that I think human body can tolerate; they effect something so vital and primary in our nervous system and I do not think we have evolved any ability to actually tolerate this. I really think that benzo's will become the 21st century barbiturate or chloral hydrate; sledgehammer solutions that are extremely brutal and primitive and dangerous. If you have been addicted to benzos, do not kid yourself into thinking that you can use them consequence free- I am afraid that this is not possible for you or me. I would also urge you to rethink resuming heroin use. It is tempting, and I agree that benzo addiction is much, much worse, but heroin will not actually help the benzo withdrawal- in my experience, opiates can make it worse by adding nausea and that dopaminergic anxiety/irritability to the mix. Sure, you are physically relatively comfortable, but the crazy thoughts don't stop and quitting benzos and opiates simultaenously is incredibly painful (though, in the full throes of benzo withdrawal, I could barely feel opiate withdrawal).

Its up to you. You are responsible for what you put in your body. Addiction makes that seem untrue, you can feel automated and robotic- every fibre of your belief is saying I will not use even while your body appears to simply override this and do what it want. The human brain is remarkably adept at out-sourcing and automating tasks that require very little thought or investment, and unfortunately, it does this incredibly effectively with addictive drugs. You need to try and stay firm, or totally outsource responsibility for your dosing- I ended up collecting my diazepam from a pharamacist that also dispensed my methadone, so I couldn't take more than I was meant to. I simply could not do it myself, I had to create a situation where I was forced to do so.

Bit tl;dr but I wanted to share my experience in the hope that you might gain something from this. All your to-ing and fro-ing is not useful to you. It is the addiction that is making you think it wise to "test" how dependant you are- you don't need to test for that, you took the benzo's using that as a reason- the point has been amply demonstrated. I really think that a supervised taper will be effective for you; it was absolutely successful for me, I was able to emerge from my psychosis. I have completed university studies and am working in a really satisfying job as a result. I truly thought my life was over. Its by no means smooth sailing, I experience depression and anxiety and very regular suicidal thoughts, and I cannot say that I am overjoyed at my life- but, hey, its not completely defined by pain anymore and that's gotta mean something.

 

[cj]

Thanks swilliow Im going to reread tomorrow when im sober but I can tell you make some good points.

 

[w0w0mg]

Cj answer your phone!!!!

 

[cj]

Things have been better the last 2 days. I used benzos etizilozam and Xanax most of them but oh well. The clinic took me off my behavior contract and I was able to increase my dose 10mg today which was nice. If I don't fail any tests I will level up December 15 and have 1 take home a week. Me and my mdone counselor are really bonding and I am using her as an everyday resource which is super awesome. I am looking for a new primary therapist as I have lost trust in the one I had been seeing. I have enough phych meds to last 4 months so its not too high a priority and I feel I need a break from therapy to re-center myself.

I talked to my dad and he wants the whole family in therapy which I think is great as long as they are competent. Its hard knowing that beforehand unfortunately.

My mood is somewhat improved. I took you guys advice to heart and started not kicking myself so much while I am down. Its going to be a long road back towards recovery. For the first time in a while I feel as if there is a chance for me.

 

[Moreaux]

swilow - what an outstanding post! Thank you so much for sharing and on that level of detail. I always feel like I have a tendency to nag people about the cumulative effects of benzos so it's nice to have another perspective mirroring a similar sentiment. I'm sorry you were scripted benzos for seizures when you were young. I was really fortunatel and my doctors didn't go that route, though at one point I did get Topamax which was its own unique level of hell lol.

cj - you sound so much better. I am really enjoying the improvements you are making in each of your posts. It's so very encouraging and inspirational! I have so much respect respect for your Dad wanting to do family therapy - that's a huge step in familial recovery and speaks volumes for his support to you. Regardless of what has transpired in the past, he is certainly making an effort now and that truly can make all the difference in the world.

I had a lot of pent up anger towards my parents that I didn't realize until I started the recovery process. I really didn't make much progress until they started actively participating, from becoming more educated about addiction to therapy. Their support meant the world to me and gave me the motivation I needed to work through the pain to get to the other side of addiction. I sincerely hope you see the efforts your father is trying to make now

Whether you realize this or not, there are so many people who are in similar situations to yours that read this thread to help figure out their escape from addiction. Your posts in this thread give them honest expectations and realistic experiences and solutions, and with that comes hope. Indirectly your openness and honesty are helping so many people, and you are truly one of the bravest people I know. I hope one day you can look back at your past and feel a sense of pride for everything you have accomplished and how much you have helped others. You are an impressive person whether you feel that way or not.

 

[cj]

Shit I think I may have put myself back into acute benzo withdrawal. I used like 5 days in a row. (face Palm) Don't know if its better to taper or ride it out at this point.

 

[swilow]

^Taper. Even a very brief taper. If I foolishly take benzo's now, I tend to take medium sized doses for a few days, say 30-50mg of temazepam. Even 2-3 days is enough for me to enter mild withdrawal once I stop, but this is negated (by and large) if, on day 4 I have say 10mg and day 5 I have 5mg. I think when a benzo enters my body, my brain assumes its just going to continue and so it gives up fending for itself almost immediately, but the very brief 2-day 'taper' seems to trick it back to normality. You need to be firm though, and this only really work for me because I don't bother making the effort to obtain benzo's illegally and so my binge is both functionally and self-limited. A brief taper may be more damaging than not if you have a regular supply and are not so good at resisting the temptation. If you can stay firm, this very brief taper may be effective for you as it was for me. You want the blood concentration of benzo to slowly decline; the slower the better, but any gradual departure is better than none.

I don't think you will be back in acute withdrawal, but I think you might be surprised at the intensity, especially given that your previous experience (which you brain would not have recovered from) was difficult. Use my advice as an excuse to take a pill or two today, and slightly less tomorrow and then nothing- see how you feel. If you are able to do this, that's a great start and will give you some strength.

I must be more of a masochist than I thought, because I actually 'enjoy' the very mild withdrawal. It doesn't consist of much anxiety, mainly a physical sensation of my body and muscles folding in (if that makes sense) but very very clear and legible thoughts. I've been able to really deeply learn things in this state, particularly abstract physics/science stuff. I also do not feel depressed in this state, just manic and pushy. Not to say that I would distinctly rather not experience it, and I think that having had pretty much constant anxiety for say 20 years has helped me learn to cope with it...

One thing in which my experience does seem to be different from others, is that I have not noticed major cognitive deficits, even after having had many many seizures and a very rough withdrawal. My short term memory is fucked, and I have quite a shaky body, and sleep is often restless with sleepwalking and sleep-punching; I sometimes have problems controlling my mouth properly, making it hard to talk without stuttering especially when I am nervous or excited, but all in all I feel so much better and cleaner since I stopped daily, or regular, benzo use. I am able to work productively, was able to study, able to learn and read, be creative. Fortunately, since I left the actute and post-acute phase of withdrawal, I haven't had any seizures that I recall. I think that, despite the absolute madness of those withdrawal years, I've come to a much better place. This doesn't completely cover up the huge hole that benzo's left in my life, the few years of achieving nothing and basically pausing all progression, but I get shocked when I consider how far I have come since

 

[cj]

Not doing to good. Bought 10mg of Xanax today. I just cant stop myself once I have access.

 

[swilow]

Don't beat yourself up, that's futile. Try to use sparingly. Small steps will get you there.

Feel free to PM me if you need, I'm happy to listen

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You don't sound able to ration them out. That's a dangerous situation.

 

[cj]

I am on the fast track to hell basically. I am going to try and not take anymore for the next couple days and see how bad my symptoms get. Ive been relapsed for roughly 10 days. With etizoloman and now Xanax. If I am too addicted I am going to try and find a compassionate doc to do a real outpatient taper.

 

[w0w0mg]

Call me bro

 

[swilow]

No matter what or when, you NEED to taper. It is the only safe way. If you are not ready, you are not ready. But a taper is absolutely vital for benzos.

I don't advise that you suddenly stop taking them to test the waters or see how bad it gets, you know what will happen. It already has. Try to ration them out but simply stopping WILL put you in withdrawal as it has before. Either way, stopping and starting them is doing potential harm. Try and make a plan and follow it even if it is basically maintenance.

 

[swilow]

How are you doing today cj?