Benzos Benzo Tolerance

[jonny11007]

I am not a newbie to benzos, I was first prescribed Xanax and the max dose I got to was 5mg per day about four years ago. (I have extreme social anxiety, GAD, agoraphobia, panic disorder). It really sucks to live with these things. Benzos as well as an SNRI has helped me tremendously!!

I switched off from Xanax to Valium about a year and a half ago, because the 5mg Xanax was just not having any effect on me at all. I then talked with my Physch and we decided to put me on 50mg of Valium per day. I have been on that dose now for about a year and a half.

Anyways, I got ahold of some Klonopin the other day, and I basically took like 8mg of it along with my daily dose of 50mg of Valium, and I didn't even feel anything at all. And on another occasion I had some Xanax and I also took about 10mg of that along with my daily dose of Valium with pretty much no effect at all.

I don't understand how my benzo tolerance has gotten so high? Do you think it's because I take the 50mg of Valium per day and since the half life of it is so high, it just keeps accumulating in my system making my benzo tolerance go through the roof?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I was thinking of going back to Xanax, but I don't think that would be a good idea seeing that I could take 10mg of it on top of my daily Valium dose. Has Valium driven up my benzo tolerance big time?

 

[darkfire333]

The 8mg of klonopin I'm not surprised you didn't feel anything. 10mg of xanax I'm just a little more surprised, well you were on 5mgs of xanax for a while, then 50mg of valium. At those doses you would need an ass load of a dose to get the effects your looking for, or you'd have to stay on a low dose of valium (or whatever) for a month or more then your tolerance should go down some (not too much though).

I have a pretty high tolerance to benzos 10mgs of xanax would work "good" for me though, I'd still need to take a couple more mgs. Benzo tolerance is one of the hardest ones to lower.

 

[morphonorconic]

Years of moderate to high daily doses of any Benzo will raise your tolerance substantially. Also, it is true that Valium has a very long half life, and repeat dosing will inevitably lead to accumulation in your system of the drug and/or its metabolites. I'd bet that if you skipped a day with your Valium, or even just put off taking your dose for the day until you began to feel discomfort, you would be able to take a reasonable dose of Xanax or Klonopin and feel it.

With that said, Benzo tolerance is a weird thing, and varies greatly from person to person, and never really seems to be consistent. Therefore, it's really kind of hard to say what will work for someone and what won't when it comes to Benzos.

 

[jonny11007]

Now I'm just worried that I've made my benzo tolerance grow even more. I've been taking the extra benzos with my Valium dose for about 2 weeks now. I'm thinking of just about taking 80mg of Valium a day, so that I don't go into any withdrawals. Do you think that's a good idea?

 

[morphonorconic]

Personally, I would just wait until you begin to feel the symptoms creeping in, so as not to over-do it and prolong the process. Then, when you feel you need to take some, try to take the smallest additional amount that is effective at reducing the w/d symptoms, see how you feel, then go from there with minimal doses until you are back to your usual 50mg.

 

[jonny11007]

Morphonorconic,
That sounds like a very good idea. So I should probably put the other benzos aside right now and just concentrate on taking the Valium to get back to my normal daily dose?

 

[bronson]

^ Sounds like a good course of action to me as well. Using benzos therapeutically you always want to try and take the minimum dose for the maximum effect. What morphonorconic suggests sounds very reasonable.

You more or less need to just work out a plan to tapper the dose back down for yourself, as everyone reacts so differently, one plan unfortunately doesn't work for all.

Best of luck, as I well know all varieties of anxiety can be a total bitch, and when you're suffering it's natural to want to increase doses. With benzos though, less is often more.

 

[Tommyboy]

IME valium is a lot easier to take less of without having withdrawal symptoms, especially at high doses. When I was prescribed xanax (3mgs daily) I could take 2mgs and make it through the day without any w.d symptoms, but could not take the lower dose consecutive days without w.d's. After switching to valium (10 mgs daily) I have found it relatively easy to take just 5 mgs for 2 days, and maybe take another half pill making that a total of 7.5mgs if I had trouble sleeping.

Most people agree that lowering your dose is easier in the beginning and if you are taking 50mgs of valium I think that you could get away with taking 30mgs daily with little discomfort. Chasing that benzo high with such high doses will just keep your tolerance sky high. I don't think that you should switch back to the xanax.

If you are looking for a buzz still, then I would say to put the other benzos aside and also lower your valium dose. When you start feeling bad withdrawals, then take the benzo combination that you mentioned before.

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

I feel horrible, my tolerance got up to 12 mgs of xanax to feel any thing and 135 mgs of temazepam to catch a good buzz... glad im on a break... dont get like me. an∂ im being 100% honest

 

[jonny11007]

I am not taking them to try and catch a buzz either, I am just taking taking them to help with my anxiety disorders. I agree, Tommyboy723, that you can get away with lowering the dose of Valium for a few days without feeling any w/d symptoms. Before my latest benzo splurge, I would take 100mg of Valium for about 5 days and then go back to my normal 50mg without any problems. I believe that happens because of the very long half-life of Valium.

 

[morphonorconic]

Morphonorconic,
That sounds like a very good idea. So I should probably put the other benzos aside right now and just concentrate on taking the Valium to get back to my normal daily dose?

Hey. Yes, that's my suggestion. Continue your usual daily 50mg of Valium, and only take extra Valium in minimal doses on top of that until you are back to feeling comfortable with only the original 50mg per day. Adding other Benzo's into the mix will only complicate things further, due to different half-lifes, different potencies, etc. Valium is what you know, and what your system is used to, so that's why I'd say just stick with that.

 

[qwe]

from what i see on BL and IME,

clonazepam can be REALLY subtle. it works *great* for its therapeutic purposes. but if you're looking for a benzo feeling, unless you have no tolerance, you shouldn't expect much

i've found that the therapeutic effects are definitely there even if they seem not to be. even without the "benzo feeling", if you're on a benzo you'll have less anxious thoughts float up, less paranoid thoughts float up, they'll effect you less

but it's hard to tell that your thinking/brain chemistry is shifted a little bit

imo benzos should be used just for that chemical shift away from anxiety. if you are attempting to "feel it" and think you need to feel it for it to "work" (and want that every day), your tolerance will skyrocket

i take a little more diazepam (current benzo script though i was on clonazepam for years and alprazolam at first for a month or two) on days where i have school or need to socialize (my anxiety is mostly social anxiety)... on other days i take a lil less

 

[qwe]

if you want a buzz, the only sustainable thing to do is keep buzzing to the weekends and (if dependent) use just enough to maintain the other days. personally the buzz just makes me tired though the muscle relaxation feels great

if you want to taper, go slower than you think you need to. and once you get to 20mg diazepam that's usually where you have to go even slower from then on, like 1 to 2.5mg every 2-4 weeks

fyi agoraphobia can be a common paradoxical effect from benzos when their tolerance really sets in. anxiety easily pokes through the normal benzo dose eventually

 

[happygoluckygal]

Valium, generally has less tolerance issues than the shorter-acting benzo cousins like Xanax and Ativan, however, especially at a significant dose like you are on, it will happen eventually. Are you TRYING to get a high from your benzo usage on top of using it therapeutically? If so, you honestly are going to have a rough time due to your tolerance, and, please think long and hard about using these meds recreationally, b/c if you sincerely need them for anxiety, then you are setting yourself up for some nasty rebound anxiety that will make the INITIAL anxiety look like cupcakes and butterflies! :0(

I have taken a benzo "as needed" for years, but NEVER had the urge to abuse them (thank GOD)...and I'm so glad about that b/c soooo many people end up compunding the intial anxiety 10-fold after abusing the meds, or even "self" adjusting their doses when tolerance starts playing a role.

My honest and sincere advice to you is to work closely with your doc trying to find the right dosages for you to attack the anxiety while also addressing the tolerance issues. And, for your own sake, do NOT abuse these meds...take them exactly as prescribed. Not that I would suggest that anyone go down the road of ANY kind of med abuse, but honestly, you'd be better off using opiates (or anything else besides benzos) recreationally and keep your benzo doses the way they are supposed to be. If you were smart(-er) than many of us here (lol)...you'd stay away from it all, recreationally speaking. ;0)

As always, be careful!!!

 

[LonE1]

Ever thought about SSRIs? I would think that would be a better route then so much benzos, thats just deadly

10mg xanax?! I would be fuckin floored!! I cant even imagine that 50mg of valium??!

I dont even want to imagine the withdraws from that habit. I would think about SSRIs they helped me tremendously with alot of the problems you were describing.

 

[bronson]

^ I suppose it just works differently for everyone. I'm on an SSRI as well as a benzo. For me, the SSRI does wonders for my OCD and mild depression. However, it really doesn't do anything to help my anxiety issue.

To the OP I concur with LonE1, if you have never tried SSRIs it might be worth giving it a shot. At the least, many of the symptoms you're describing are commonly controlled using both an SSRI and a lower dose benzo. They aren't for everyone though, or perhaps you have already tried them and they didn't work out.

Just don't be afraid to talk to your Dr., that always seems like the best way to get medications and doses regulated properly.

 

[jonny11007]

Valium, generally has less tolerance issues than the shorter-acting benzo cousins like Xanax and Ativan, however, especially at a significant dose like you are on, it will happen eventually. Are you TRYING to get a high from your benzo usage on top of using it therapeutically? If so, you honestly are going to have a rough time due to your tolerance, and, please think long and hard about using these meds recreationally, b/c if you sincerely need them for anxiety, then you are setting yourself up for some nasty rebound anxiety that will make the INITIAL anxiety look like cupcakes and butterflies! :0(

I have taken a benzo "as needed" for years, but NEVER had the urge to abuse them (thank GOD)...and I'm so glad about that b/c soooo many people end up compunding the intial anxiety 10-fold after abusing the meds, or even "self" adjusting their doses when tolerance starts playing a role.

My honest and sincere advice to you is to work closely with your doc trying to find the right dosages for you to attack the anxiety while also addressing the tolerance issues. And, for your own sake, do NOT abuse these meds...take them exactly as prescribed. Not that I would suggest that anyone go down the road of ANY kind of med abuse, but honestly, you'd be better off using opiates (or anything else besides benzos) recreationally and keep your benzo doses the way they are supposed to be. If you were smart(-er) than many of us here (lol)...you'd stay away from it all, recreationally speaking. ;0)

As always, be careful!!!

Thanks for your reply. No, I have not been or have even thought of taking benzos to get high or catch a buzz, I'm just trying to combat my crippling anxiety disorders (social anxiety, GAD, pabic attacks, OCD, agoraphobia). The Valium seems to have stopped working and I just tried some other benzos to see if they would work, and unfortunatley they didn't. Anyways, I will need to talk with my Psych and see about adjusting my SNRI perhaps. Thanks for your reply, and stay safe as well!

To the other people who have been talking about SSRIs, I have tred about 4 of them to no avail, but am now on an SNRI and that seems to help. Maybe the dose of that needs to be adjusted a little. I've heard and read that SSRIs and SNRIs do have a tendancy to "poop out" after using them for several months, and increases or slight decreases of the med kind of gets it back going. I think that may be the problem with me right now.

 

[Anon54]

Drink grape fruit juice with ya valium. (Suppose to make the peak stronger & make half life last longer.)
Tramadol is a good SNRI that worked for me. Maybe u could say u're deppressed and get migranes.

 

[mdmantpa]

I was prescribed 30mg Valium per day along with 30mg Temazepam per night, and also Rx'd one 2mg Xanax bar a day for any panic or anxiety attacks. I was on this regimen plus an antidepressant and pain management for over a year and my benzo tolerance went through the roof...to the point where I took the rest of my month's supply of Xanax all at once (about 40mg) and didnt pass out or anything jsut chilled on it. If you are going to be prescribed benzos you have to know up front that you cant try to abuse them because it will jsut never work anymore, and if you do get a buzz off of em, its typically a crazy dose like 250mg of Valium instead of a normal 10 or 20mg dose...Plus coming off of benzo addictions like that make you feel like you are dying, it is an awful pain I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy

 

[Levvytation]

Benzo tolerance is a weird thing, and varies greatly from person to person, and never really seems to be consistent. Therefore, it's really kind of hard to say what will work for someone and what won't when it comes to Benzos.

Agreed 100%