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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Benzo Taper - seizure risk?
- Thread starter wooger
- Start date
those yummy noodles are calling for us!)Okay, I will pm you v soon. Sounds like we need a chat anyway! But going to let someone else advise you on the benzo taper, there are a lot of people with more knowledge than me in here (although maybe not at 3am haha.. so give it some time)
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Vaya
Bluelight Crew
It's going to be really difficult (if not impossible) to provide you with a concrete answer to your question, as there are too many variables and confounds to consider; these pertinently include age, duration of benzodiazepine treatment, individual response to GABAergic/BZD-type substances, and baseline glutamate activity/relative predisposition to seizure activity. But based on my experience - both as a decade-long user of benzodiazepines and as someone who has, in that time period, both successfully and unsuccessfully tapered downward, a decrease from 35mg of diazepam to 10mg per day within seven days is not reasonably safe. You may be fortunate in the realm of seizure activity, owing largely to diazepam/desmethyldiazepam's ridiculously long half-lives, supplemented by their lipid solubility. However, I cannot tell you with certainty whether or not such a drastic decrease in such a short amount of time would decrease your seizure threshold to the extent that you'd experience a seizure. It's unlikely - given half-lives and the fact that you'd still be on an appreciable (10mg) amount of diazepam. I'm not going to recommend it, though.
I will say that I can almost guarantee some pretty severe acute withdrawal symptoms resulting from such a leap downwards. I'm not clear as to why your time-frame for tapering down is so small, but it's a clear indicator of a pretty miserable experience in the making. All the classical BZD-withdrawal symptoms will be present - inconsistent degrees of restlessness/anxiety, some level of insomnia and very likely irritability and mood dysregulation. In addition, regardless of to what extent, your seizure threshold will have diminished and thus you would be especially wise to avoid any stimulant-type drugs, including caffeine and nicotine. If you smoke, you'd have to take into consideration that nicotine lowers the amount of a given BZD circulating in the bloodstream. The implications of this become more clear when you consider that the mere 10mg of diazepam you'd still be on, if indeed it is just this 10mg that is buoying your body above seizing, would be even less effective in keeping your electrophysiology in check.
Do you take any other medications, herbs or supplements that affect dopamine, noradrenaline (norepinephrine), GABA or glutamate?
I'm assuming, based off your question, that you understand the relative dangers of long-term benzodiazepine use and abrupt cessation or rapid downward tapering, but the situation warrants re-emphasizing that tapering down from benzodiazepines is a very tricky, often touch-and-go, individualized process. To give you any type of "go for it" or "definitely don't consider this" would be stepping out of bounds. Given the nature of our community and its "harm reduction" taproot, however, I'm going to go ahead and strongly suggest that you do not attempt to do this, especially without the guidance of a physician. BL can't substitute for the watchful eye of a medical professional who is directly observing you and interacting with your situation in real-world circumstances! Be safe
On a final and personal note, it took me eleven months to taper from 40mg of diazepam down to 2.5mg after (then) seven years of using BZD's daily (medicated, not abuse), and that was 11 months of pretty intense discomfort despite abiding by physician's directions.... Referring to my first sentence, there are a ton of confounding variables that might have predisposed me to a less-tolerable medication reduction, but it certainly doesn't weaken my feeling that this would be an unhealthy decision for you.
Keep us updated if you choose to to undertake the proposed taper schedule...
~ vaya
I will say that I can almost guarantee some pretty severe acute withdrawal symptoms resulting from such a leap downwards. I'm not clear as to why your time-frame for tapering down is so small, but it's a clear indicator of a pretty miserable experience in the making. All the classical BZD-withdrawal symptoms will be present - inconsistent degrees of restlessness/anxiety, some level of insomnia and very likely irritability and mood dysregulation. In addition, regardless of to what extent, your seizure threshold will have diminished and thus you would be especially wise to avoid any stimulant-type drugs, including caffeine and nicotine. If you smoke, you'd have to take into consideration that nicotine lowers the amount of a given BZD circulating in the bloodstream. The implications of this become more clear when you consider that the mere 10mg of diazepam you'd still be on, if indeed it is just this 10mg that is buoying your body above seizing, would be even less effective in keeping your electrophysiology in check.
Do you take any other medications, herbs or supplements that affect dopamine, noradrenaline (norepinephrine), GABA or glutamate?
I'm assuming, based off your question, that you understand the relative dangers of long-term benzodiazepine use and abrupt cessation or rapid downward tapering, but the situation warrants re-emphasizing that tapering down from benzodiazepines is a very tricky, often touch-and-go, individualized process. To give you any type of "go for it" or "definitely don't consider this" would be stepping out of bounds. Given the nature of our community and its "harm reduction" taproot, however, I'm going to go ahead and strongly suggest that you do not attempt to do this, especially without the guidance of a physician. BL can't substitute for the watchful eye of a medical professional who is directly observing you and interacting with your situation in real-world circumstances! Be safe
On a final and personal note, it took me eleven months to taper from 40mg of diazepam down to 2.5mg after (then) seven years of using BZD's daily (medicated, not abuse), and that was 11 months of pretty intense discomfort despite abiding by physician's directions.... Referring to my first sentence, there are a ton of confounding variables that might have predisposed me to a less-tolerable medication reduction, but it certainly doesn't weaken my feeling that this would be an unhealthy decision for you.
Keep us updated if you choose to to undertake the proposed taper schedule...
~ vaya
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Tripman
Bluelight Crew
I'm just going to say that on an equivalent of 35mg a day diazepam and only being at that amount for a month, you are not in risk of a seizure. Seizures usually occur in rapid taper from high dosage benzodiazepines.
It may be quite uncomfortable, but you are not at risk of a seizure. If you have a week to get down from 35-10mg I would say drop to 25mg for three days, 20mg for two days, 15mg for two days and then continue at 10 mg.
I can't see you being in any danger apart from some rebound anxiety and a bit of discomfort.
It may be quite uncomfortable, but you are not at risk of a seizure. If you have a week to get down from 35-10mg I would say drop to 25mg for three days, 20mg for two days, 15mg for two days and then continue at 10 mg.
I can't see you being in any danger apart from some rebound anxiety and a bit of discomfort.
I am not sure why you started this thread with all those rehabs... Are you going to a clinic or are you attempting this drastic 'taper' on your own? If you are doign it on your own, what is the rush? Tripman lays out a typical hospital regimen with perhaps a week or two more depending on the rehab. I WOULD NOT do this! I've withdrawn from alcohol, opiates and benzos and they are by far the most difficult and long lasting. The withdrawls are debilitateing esp. mentally. I would under no circumstances try this. Why the time line mate? Perhaps some folks on here can give you a more accurate short term taper that can accomplish your same goals. As you said you are running out of options. IS it a test coming up, parole? How can we help you do this safely knowing the longest time you have available and why time is such a necessity. Pm me if you need some info.
Tripman
Bluelight Crew
^^ With the time he has and the amount he is on the taper I have given should be fine. It is almost an insignificant dose of benzo's daily and while it will be uncomfortable it is not unsafe.
Psychedelic Jay
Bluelighter
10 mg of diazepam is not a lot. But, always remember that if you have been on that dosage for more than 6 months, you need to taper down. 5 mgs every week... If you can go slower, you are in the greenest zone ever, but if you can just do 5 mg per week, it will make all the difference.
Vaya
Bluelight Crew
This I can now agree with, having realized I overlooked the OP saying that it had only been "about a month" of Valium use.
There aren't any guarantees in life but 1 month at that level, from all the reading I've done on the subject and my yo yo Benzo use over the last 18 months or so. I reckon you'd be just fine coming down 10Mgs every 5 days. Personally I can tell if the drop is a little tough and maybe hold that dose for a few extra days but never work back up.
I tend to go on 2-3 month benders getting into amounts way higher than 35mgs a day within a week then a couple of months in a realise I've feked up ....again and have to taper....again. I know that each time I must be making things worse but I seem to have got away with it again, lets hope this one the last one for me and you.
I tend to go on 2-3 month benders getting into amounts way higher than 35mgs a day within a week then a couple of months in a realise I've feked up ....again and have to taper....again. I know that each time I must be making things worse but I seem to have got away with it again, lets hope this one the last one for me and you.
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BananasAndOranges
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,982
If you have been on diazepam for a Month and are getting doctors help with detox it really shouldnt take long to get to just 10mgs of diazepam given you have been on this medication for Only a month. I think you should do it. You have no idea how uncomfortable it gets six years later going from doctor to doctor getting wide mouthed omg's for being on 4 fucking mgs of Alprazolam. See if you can be switched onto alternative options after the taper.
THECATINTHEHAT
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2005
- Messages
- 8,186
I did a cold turkey detox from a 150mg a day habit and didn't have a seizure. However, this is clearly not a good idea.