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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Benzo Equivalency does not make sense for Clonazepam --> Diazepam

Supeudol

Supeudol

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
1,070
Location
Alberta, Canada.
Yes, yes I know, I've looked through the Ashton Manual, and have read it, and have also looked at various Benzodiazepine Equivalency Charts, but what really boggles me, and I am trying to figure this out with my Doctor is that these equivalency charts are listing the following: 0.5mg Clonazepam = 10mg Diazepam. Well, that would mean the dosage I am on ofClonazepam 2mg BID would be Equivalent to 40mg of Diazepam BID, which would be 80mg if Diazepam in a day??? this goes the same for Alprazolam. (Alprazolam is weak and overrated, no offence, but Lorazepam has more properties to it.)

I am sorry, but no way. I was on 40mg of Diazepam per day before I switched to Clonazepam, but in a way I don't think I should have made the switch because Diazepam has more sedative effects, and I can feel 20mg of Diazepam WAY more than I could feel 1mg of Clonazepam or even 2mg Clonazepam.

I would like to switch back to Diazepam, but the problem is my doc says the College here doesn't want people being on a higher dose of Diazepam than 10mg 3x per day. And I have a monster Benzodiazepine tolerance. I plan on getting off the Narcotics first which is what I am doing slowly since my body has taking a beating from being in w/d off and on so many times. I can't believe this Country, how they make people suffer like this, by not realizing that patients build up a tolerance, some people a LOT faster than others.

Anyways, I am just curious what you guys think? I just stuck with the 2mg of Clonazepam BID for now... but I wish I had Diazepam.

:\
 
I don't know what to tell you. 0.5mg clonazepam is equivalent to 10mgs diazepam. But they are different drugs so they won't be exactly the same as you've found out. Clonazepam is superior to diazepam for anxiety control. Additionally clonazepam, while having a long half life, isn't nearly as long as diazepam, so it will be easier to taper down the clonazepam, then switch to diazepam to finish the taper.
 
4 mg clonazepam is much more benzo than 30 mg diazepam per the equivalency charts. I don't think you would feel comfortable just dropping to 30 mg diazepam, in fact, that sounds rather risky.
 
diazepam is extremely sedating for me. it has a different feel to it than kpin; even though they are so similar, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
 
laCster said:
diazepam is extremely sedating for me. it has a different feel to it than kpin; even though they are so similar, it's like comparing apples to oranges.
Click to expand...

^ Yeah true that. I find Diazepam nice and sedating as well. Clonazepam I don't even notice I took anything. And no these are not fakes, they were prescribed by my doctor. I've just been using & Abusing Benzodiazepines for 8 years now, so tolerance goes up ^.
 
Different benzos do things to different people as well. For me, clonazepam is more sedating than diazepam. Lorazepam isn't very sedating at all, yet for some people it is considerably sedating.

I've been prescribed and using lorazepam the longest out of all the benzos I've used and/or been prescribed. That may explain why I don't find it very sedating and may be why you have a similar effect with clonazepam.
 
(Alprazolam is weak and overrated, no offence, but Lorazepam has more properties to it.)

I've had completely the opposite experience. I can feel a 0.25mg alprazolam, but not 4mg of lorazepam. I agree tho, I'd rather have diazepam than any other benzo I've tried (other than alprazolam).

I cant explain the dosing difference. and btw, Im also in that same opiate boat, more like an oceanliner that's never going to reach shore, unless it capsizes haha. a little bit of suboxone helps me LOADS when I am in wd.

Tolerance? Oh, that's like when you can shoot 48mg of hydromorphone or 2mg (not a misprint) of fentanyl and get up, walk and talk, and not even get a nod, when that same dose would probably drop two nontolerant people dead. I know your pain bro.
 
I agree that alprazolam is overrated, I used to be prescribed it before I switched to lorazepam. Everybody is different though, a lot of people consider alprazolam to be superior to lorazepam for both medical and recreational use...
 
You shouldn't expirience any withdrawal symptoms from the switch of diazepam to clonazepam.

Although diaz is more sedative as others have said. Potency aside, lower dosages of diaz in comparison to a dosage of clonazepam or alprazolam will still feel just as potent because of it's strong sedative and muscle relaxant properties.

I also think diaz is the best long-term benzodiazepine for daily anxiety maintenance due to the rapid onset, duration, and half life.
 
I find lorazepam is to be very efficacious in elimenating anxiety without unwanted sedation, but not too little either. I really am a fan of lorazepam. It kicks in quick enough and lasts long enoungh, not too long. It is what I use for any "extra" agitation or excitation or anxiety, or in combination with an opioid for recreational value. For me 2 mg is about right for any occassion. It isn't "fun" at that dose for me, sometimes barely noticeable other in its anxiolysis and relaxation. On a daily basis I take clonazepam, 3 mg/day. Clonazepam works well with me. Frankly, if doctors would rx me a true equipotent dose of lorazepam I might opt on using that as my daily benzo with additional doses as needed. Alprazolam has run very hot and cold with me over the course of my benzo addiction. In the beginning it was great, first benzo I tried. When I had no tolerance 0.25 mg alprazolam would really do me nicely as a PRN when I was started on 1 mg clonazepam/day. Now, any amount of alprazolam is just not worth it. A little won't do anything, and a larger dose tends to be too sedating and actually unpleasant which is weird.
 
I don't have an answer to your question, but you should be careful regarding equivalency charts, as they compare the substances for 100% bioavailability, which is IV. A few benzodiazepines can't be fully absorbed or break down orally like midazolam. See here.
An example is the potency of morphine and oxycodone. Oxycodone has roughly twice the potency of morphine orally. But morphine is poorly absorbed orally, so the potency of both drugs is roughly equivalent intravenously.
 
equivalency charts ALWAYS need to be taken wit a grain of salt

you are in some sense comparing apples and oranges - for example trying to find the equivalent dosage for triazaolm in reference to diazepam ... you're trying to compare a fast acting short half life strong sedative with a long acting long half life primary anxiolytic... so sure they're both benzos but that doesn't mean you can accurately get a direct equivalence from on to the other.

I'd say Clonazepam and Diazepam overlap moe than the example I gave above but that being the case you also have to consider that everyone reacts differently to the different benzo family members. Hence the disagreement where some people love alprazolam but you for instance think its overrated. If you need a quick fast acting but short term fix to treat primary anxiety then alprazolam is probably a good choice on the other hand if you are looking to treat a longer lasting anxiety issue or are mainly looking for sedation then sure alprazolam may be 'overrated' only for your specific need/want.
 
I must make this point, DIFFERENT BENZO's do different things to different people, and those effects on said person can also change over time.

Personally I like Alprazolam the best, I find it the strongest and quickest acting. I used to not feel Clonazepam, even at insane 10mg doses. But I've always hated Lorazepam, I take 10mg does and I don't feel a thing at all, even when I tried 20mg it did nothing. Alpraz is the best, it is also the only benzo that gives you a 30-60 minute initial high alongside the benzo feeling for 2-4 hours.

Now Loraz is as good as trash to me, and I hold Clonazepam with as much esteem as I do my favorite Benzo Xanax (Alprazolam). The only consistent Benzo that works on everyone I've seen take it is Xanax, its doesn't change effects like all the other Benzo's do, with exception noted for tolerance issues.
 
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Subjectively, I find 2mg of clonazepam to be stronger than 40mg of diazepam, though the diazepam is more sedating and may feel stronger in a sense (also, if I am not suffering from anxiety of any sort the diazepam may be stronger, as clonazepam works as a stronger anxiolytic for me). The equivalency charts, though useful and formed on a sound basis, are more of a general guideline and starting point, and individual response being greater or less pronounced than expected is something the patient and doctor should finetune together. Personally I respond very well to clonazepam - it is strongly anxiolytic, a good muscle relaxant, and among the least sedating and amnesic. I've read that clonazepam is one of the benzos with the highest variance in response between patients.

4mg of clonazepam is also a high dose - in most cases, doses should not reach such high levels, or they should only remain there for a short time before beginning to taper down. I've been on up to 4mg per day as needed, but the doctor was very concerned about this (rightly so), and fortunately I had progressed enough with my therapist to be able to start reducing my meds.

Finally, I have certainly noticed in my experience that doctors will just about never prescribe 80mg of diazepam per day, but quite frequently people get 4mg, sometimes even 6mg of clonazepam per day. Alprazolam is another where equivalent doses are higher than most. I suspect that if this is based on any kind of reason, it may be that those two are not particularly sedative, a good property for anxiolytic benzos used throughout the day. Also, sedative benzos are naturally often taken at one point during the day in a single dose, and as such, smaller amounts are required (I have, however, been prescribed 80mg of temazepam - equivalent to 40mg diazepam - at bedtime for sleep, shortly before switching to the much more effective nitrazepam).
 
Benzo's are so wierd :I
For me clonazepam is like a energic happy benzo and pretty long lasting, but after a couple of yack's it turns pretty mellow though..
I find alprazolam overrated too!! So many people seems to prefer alprazolam.. I tried alprazolam first time maby 6 months ago and I was pretty disappointed because everyone was hyping it to me.
And diazepam makes me pretty dizzy and sedated.
IMO lorazepam is nicer than alprazolam..

The effects varies so much between people.
 
one thing about benzos tho is that if you are prescribed one type for a while and then you switch to a diff one it will hit you harder even if with no prior experience the first one is much stronger
and i agree xanax is sooo overrated i personally def prefer lorazepam and i think that klonazepam is by far the weakest benzo but to be fair i am prescribed 2 mg of lorazepam and 2mg of xanax xr a day also lorazepam is the quickest and hardest hitting benzo but its the shortest lasting while klonapin is meant to last longer similar to the xanax xr i suppose
 
Liquid clonazepam..

If you ask a hundred people, you'll get a hundred dif opinions..I agree with you that xanax is overrated, i find it boring, but that's just me. The thing with clonazepam is that is (maybe the only) non-abusable benzo, and that's why docs prescribe it more easily than diaz and other benzos..what i mean is that clonaz is good at doses 1-3 mg, taking more, has no meaning for me,(and for the most people, i think..), cause it hasn't recreational value like, let's say, diaz. When i take diaz, i start from 50-60mg, it's a dose that has a nice, little euhoric feeling to me, though i prefer doses around 100mg, and then maybe more, that's why i think diaz is very abusable. On the other side, with clonaz i wouldn't go more than 3mgs, there's no meaning. And the things are worse with benzos like flunitrazepam and triazolam, for example. You say that the college doesn't want doses more than 30mg of diaz daily, i suppose that smth like 2mg clonaz and 30mg diaz daily isn't an option, obvously, huh? What i have to suggest you is this:I live in Europe, and brand name (Roche) clonazepam, comes, expect of 0.5mg and 2mg pills, in a 10ml bottle of oral solution 2,5mg/ml, when one ml is 25 measured drops, so 20 drops are 2mgs, 10 drops are 1mg, 14 drops are 1,4mgs etc. This is for the little kids that have to take the med,and the dose must calculated accurately (and children can't take pills, drinking a small amount of liquid, is way fuckin easier, of course..). It has a very pleasant peach taste, and (IMHO) it works WAY better than the pills, it comes faster and it's better than the pills, i don't know exactly how to describe it to you:?, it's kinda different from the pills..I take clonaz for about 8 years, it helps me with the pain issues i have, along with other meds.. I use the drops as prescribed, orally (i just mention this, cause maybe some people would think, that as it is a liquid, it could be used for IV/IM shots, snorting,etc. I've done enough stupid things already in my life, i can't afford even one more..8)). I believe that you should give it a try, if of course, the med comes in this form, where you live (that i hope so). It's not prescribed only for children, it's precribed for adults too, cause you can presicely calculate and adjust your dose. Discuss it with your doc, you don't have nothing to lose, and i don't think that this can raise the fuckin "drug seeker" flag. It's not a miracle med, but i believe that i understand your problem, and what you want from your meds, and this oral solution could be a very pleasant alternative choice. It won't be like 80mg diaz, but it would be better than the clonaz pills..Well, this, my friend, i would be very happy if i helped you, even a litl..My best wishes for solving your problem, really...:)


MartinFn
 
Old thread here I was reading, BUT----

.5mg of Clonazepam is NOT 10mg of Diazepam.

According to lots of sources, and the benzo calculater, 1mg of Clonazepam = 10mg of Diazepam.

http://www.globalrph.com/benzodiazepine_calc.cgi

That's the most accurate calculater ive used. Its also on top of the page on google.

So,
.5mg of clonazepam = 5mg Diazepam
1.0mg of clonazepam = 10mg Diazepam

Just wanted to correct everybody on here.

I'm RX'd Clonazepam, I also use diazepam on the side off the streets to stockpile my RX drugs. That's exactly how they feel to me.
 
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