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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Benzo Discussion

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chinup said:
i was refused benzos by a doc despite presenting evidence that i'd been on a script for a year in a different country. apparently NICE say they shouldn't be prescribed to anybody on anti depressants. i think thats shitty cos depression and anxiety go hand in hand, but kinda makes sense given depression probably makes you more likely to abuse (in the BL not Fail sense) substances.

Not being able to script benzos when on antideps is total bullshit - have been scripted two different benzos pretty much non-stop for at least 15 years now and been scripted a variety of antideps alongside 'em for most of that time too. Some doctors try to palm you off with any old bollocks just cos they don't want to prescribe benzos. I've been to a few docs who refuse with some made-up excuse but have always just stopped seeing them and gone to a different doc and always got me script soon enough. Sadly I know that's not always an option for all :(

Saw my own doc last week again and he's definitely decided to stop trying to fuck with me benzo script. Did gently but firmly tell me my "subtle" suggestion of scripting me some ketamine to replace my painkillers and tramadol wasn't gonna happen though. He did seem to be interested in looking up the research on using it for those purposes though so one can but hope =D

Got my referral to a pain clinic though so there's still hope of getting my analgesics sorted :)
 
when???

it wouldn't surprise me if some docs still break the rules, the guy who refused my script totally fucked me over in the long term so certainly falls under the 'arsehold gp' category.

Last year
 
luckily i didn't care at the time. i wasn't really using them except for sleep and proper stresses, i was worried that if i chilled out i would start eating properly and get fat lol. had like 4 bottles of clonaz and 2 tubes of bromaz anyway, still not run out of the clonaz despite giving away an entire bottle plus other bits. it was a total lifesaver last year when i lost the ability to sleep, helped way more than what the docs gave me!!!

glad your docs being good about it and hope it goes well at the pain thing. ugh it'll have been 6 months since my referral to osteopathy if they don't cancel my appointment AGAIN by the time i go there. really hoping they will give me some pain meds and tell me what the fuck is going on with my arm, had an emergency x ray as i was having time with no mobility, turned out to be anxiety but there's something on the x ray that gps aren't qualified to comment on. sadly you're not on fb so can't see the gruesome details, or maybe thats gladly....

i'm too tired not to ramble. sorry people.

Last year

fair enough. i'm not surprised that that particular gp lied to me. hope they're all helping anyway.
 
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^^^ Funnily enough she soon sused on to my addictive tenancies and stopped the diaz, but it all ended up with me in residential anyhow.

This time round despite describing my epic booze habit to my new GP he was having none of it on the Diaz script so I've gone "Asian" on that one;)
 
Osteopathy is the only treatment I've ever had that truly works (for a chronic back problem in my case). Costs 60 quid a session here though and the NHS won't fund it. Bit of a shame really but won't turn me nose up if I can at least get switched up to morphine or summat. Would happily give up my benzo script for some painkillers that at least take the edge off. The diaz is actually scripted partly to help alleviate muscle spasms and stuff and it definitely helps but is hardly ideal.

No FB here (work of the devil, dontcha know ;)) but maybe we can swap exciting tales of X-ray excitement when I get mine done next week. Hopefully I may even get a diagnosis this time - osteopath is the only person I've seen who actually knew what the problem was instantly and how to deal with it 8)

PS: Congrats on the modstick :)

PPS: Will get around to returning your book at some point too - made my multihour GP waits far more enjoyable while it lasted but not sure I could quite manage to do sums in binary yet even so :D
 
sorry to hear that. hope it helped in some way.

can't blame you for going 'asian'...

At the moment I'm totally off the booze which waas wrecking my life, I have a meeting with a CBT councilour tomorrow so I'm trying all tyhe angles=D
 
lol just realised i meant orthopedics. though my mums the same about osteopathy. i'll probably end up needing that too, if i get really stressed out i can't move my neck. sorry you're in so much pain but glad the diaz helps a bit (gotta keep it somewhat benzo related!!!)

lol look forward x ray swapping tales.

thanks.

cool- glad you liked it and hope it was somewhat informative. except when you're in the docs getting pain meds, then the pain exists too. i wouldn't worry too much about the binary.

atm- great news. booze has ruined so many people i knows lives, i hope you manage to stay free of it and that the CBT helps.
 
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Is it in the BNF ? i 'ma have alok but my copy is circa 2009 n things change.
I doubt it n if it ain't then no chance of getting a script , if your gona ask i rekon it would be an idea to check to see if it's on the menu as such.
 
It is, but I can't access it properly off the net and can't find my copy now.

Here's something I found about it's use in palliative care, not v much info but shows it is used in some if not all trusts (this leaflet is from Scotland)

Ketamine for pain

Only for palliative care in this case but I've seen (quite old) papers discussing its's use in chronic pain, neuropathic pain and phantom limb pain. Will dig em out in a bit :)

edit: can't find them - they were from 2003 and concluded that there was not enough evidence at that point to recommend licensing it for use in pain, or some such thing. I've seen it recently used as post-op pain in someone extremely sensitive to oramorph, as an IV infusion, but haven't heard about it's use out of hospitals except someone mentioning getting some ketamine gel on BL a while back!

This is from wikipedia - is long but interesting, although very small study numbers and I've not read the papers to see if it is actualy good quality research or not..

I doubt VERY much if a GP would prescribe if for pain - too far out of their speciality. Pain clinic would be the best bet I imagine.

NSFW:
Ketamine is being used as an experimental and controversial treatment for Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) also known as Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD). CRPS/RSD is a severe chronic pain condition characterized by sensory, autonomic, motor and dystrophic signs and symptoms. The pain in CRPS is continuous, it worsens over time, and it is usually disproportionate to the severity and duration of the inciting event. The hypothesis is that ketamine manipulates NMDA receptors which might reboot aberrant brain activity. There are two treatment modalities, the first consist of a low dose ketamine infusion of between 25–90 mg per day, over five days either in hospital or as an outpatient. This is called the awake technique. Open label, prospective, pain journal evaluation of a 10-day infusion of intravenous ketamine (awake technique) in the CRPS patient concluded that "A four-hour ketamine infusion escalated from 40–80 mg over a 10-day period can result in a significant reduction of pain with increased mobility and a tendency to decreased autonomic dysregulation".[49]

Case notes of 33 patients whose CRPS pain was treated by the inpatient administration of a continuous subanesthetic intravenous infusion of ketamine were reviewed at Mackay Base Hospital, Queensland, Australia. A total of 33 patients with diagnoses of CRPS who had undergone ketamine treatment at least once were identified. Due to relapse, 12 of 33 patients received a second course of therapy, and two of 33 patients received a third. There was complete pain relief in 25 (76%), partial relief in six (18%), and no relief in two (6%) patients.

The degree of relief obtained following repeat therapy (N=12) appeared even better, as all 12 patients who received second courses of treatment experienced complete relief of their CRPS pain. The duration of relief was also impressive, as was the difference between the duration of relief obtained after the first and after the second courses of therapy. In this respect, following the first course of therapy, 54% of 33 individuals remained pain free for 3 months or more and 31% remained pain free for 6 months or more. After the second infusion, 58% of 12 patients experienced relief for a year or more, while almost 33% remained pain free for over 3 years. The most frequent side effect observed in patients receiving this treatment was a feeling of inebriation. Hallucinations occurred in six patients. Less frequent side effects also included complaints of light-headedness, dizziness, and nausea. In four patients, an alteration in hepatic enzyme profile was noted; the infusion was terminated and the abnormality resolved thereafter. No long-term side-effects were noted.[49]

The second treatment modality consists of putting the patient into a medically-induced coma and given an extremely high dosage of ketamine; typically between 600–900 mg.[50] This version, currently not allowed in the United States, is most commonly done in Germany but some treatments are now also taking place in Monterrey, Mexico. According to Dr Schwartzman, 14 cases out of 41 patients in the coma induced ketamine experiments were completely cured. "We haven't cured the original injury", he says, "but we have cured the RSD or kept it in remission. The RSD pain is gone." He added that "No one ever cured it before... In 40 years, I have never seen anything like it. These are people who were disabled and in horrible pain. Most were completely incapacitated. They go back to work, back to school, and are doing everything they used to do. Most are on no medications at all. I have taken morphine pumps out of people. You turn off the pain and reset the whole system."[50]

In Tuebingen, Germany Dr Kiefer treated a patient presented with a rapidly progressing contiguous spread of CRPS from a severe ligamentous wrist injury. Standard pharmacological and interventional therapy successively failed to halt the spread of CRPS from the wrist to the entire right arm. Her pain was unmanageable with all standard therapy. As a last treatment option, the patient was transferred to the intensive care unit and treated on a compassionate care basis with anesthetic doses of ketamine in gradually increasing (3–5 mg/kg·h) doses in conjunction with midazolam over a period of 5 days. On the second day, edema, and discoloration began to resolve and increased spontaneous movement was noted. On day 6, symptoms completely resolved and infusions were tapered. The patient emerged from anesthesia completely free of pain and associated CRPS signs and symptoms. The patient has maintained this complete remission from CRPS for 8 years now. The psychiatric side effects of ketamine were successfully managed with the concomitant use of midazolam and resolved within 1 month of treatment.[51]
 
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If I haven't had any valium for two weeks now, and have felt no WD/adverse effects...... does this mean I have dodged any dependency issues from my previous sporadic use, spanning back a few months? And is such a break long enough to kick back any creeping tolerance?
 
If I haven't had any valium for two weeks now, and have felt no WD/adverse effects...... does this mean I have dodged any dependency issues from my previous sporadic use, spanning back a few months? And is such a break long enough to kick back any creeping tolerance?

How much were you using before and how often ?
I would imagine if you have not had any W/D symptoms in 2 weeks thats a sign you were not physically reliant on the valium so far at least
 
How much were you using before and how often ?
I would imagine if you have not had any W/D symptoms in 2 weeks thats a sign you were not physically reliant on the valium so far at least

Like I say, it was sporadic. Erm maybe averaging 50mg-100mg per week. Sometimes 40mg in one day then none for nearly a week. Then 10mg a day for a whole week maybe.
 
^^^

I'm far frorm and expert and I know this stuff has a long half life but I'll stick my neck out out say your peachy on this one
 
" the clinical director of the LAU just recommended to my doctor I keep buying them off the street "

Thats disgusting the doctor COULD ARRANGE A WEEKLY PICKUP BLISTER PACK FOR YOUR BENZO REDUCTION which im currently on, so you dont have too many at once, telling /forcing you to buy of shady benzo dealers is all to common but disgusting behavior by u.k. GP's and psychiatrists these days

:|Disgraceful. These so called medical professionals are just overpaid knobheads. I bet they don't have to resort to the street.:X
 
we lovwe benzos my dr gives me 601c mng aonth oooo myyyyyy i have s o muchhh g[fdyuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn srrry im looped now
 
i started a ,5 mg ativan did shit went to 2 mhg k pin o was like yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
^^^

Ditto , the only reason I couldn't get a long term script was that I admitted to alcohol depneddance....go figure that one :\
 
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