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Benzo Discussion v4

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mydrugbuddy said:
Phenazepam = ADDICTIVE AS FUCK. Started off with 2mg a few night ago. Am now up to about 90mg per day within about 4 days. :\

I love i. Its like the relaxaation of being completely drunk, but without seeming to cause the loss of the higher 90 % of brain functionalty.

If i have any sense left to overridre an apparent self destructive streak in me i need it NOW.
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There have been so many phenazepam horror stories, please be careful mdb and think about reining this in <3
 
You really do, loadsa people have had phenaz powder and it nearly always ends badly, i take it youv got powder? Be careful mate :\
 
Cheers for the advice. All common sense tells me you are both right. So far ive ordered 500mg, halfway though my 2nd bag of 2g.

Sheer test of will not to re-order here. Maybe just take it day by day without re-ordering.

The thing is the better and more skilled you get at prepping your drugs they become even more seductive, as you get all flashy and Jamie Oliver about it. And that seems o increase the enjoyment o it even more. Or is that just me..
 
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headfuck123 said:
what are peoples views on phenazepam?
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it is indeed a headfuck, my short term memory has been obliterated within about 3 days. Take from that what you will. :|

Off to get some glasses necklace holder thingies as ive now lost 3 pairs in 3 days, leaving an unenviable choice to be left with to choose from
. Actually im not going out there, see what on ebay and amazon firsrt.
 
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I have never had phenazepam in powdered form so I've been saved from the blackout horror stories - only in the 2.5mg pellets doing the rounds at least in my parts at some point. It was a very strongly relaxing and quite sedating benzo, although its amnesic effect because very strong at doses even slightly above therapeutic. When kept in moderation, one of the better benzos in my opinion.

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In your experience, when tapering from another benzo, have your doctors switched you to an equivalent dose of diazepam initially, and then started dropping dosages? I feel like amost every time my doctors have pushed a very aggressive taper. From some 4 months on 2-3mg clonazepam per day (equivalent 40-60mg) I started at 25mg diazepam daily. Was unpleasant, but I got through.

Now I've been on 2-3mg lorazepam daily since October. I'm going to the doctor Friday, but I don't think she'll put me on any more than 10-15mg diazepam initially. 20-30mg would be appropriate. I hope I'm wrong.
 
thanks for all the input my question guys. i think il leave this one out, the last thing i need is a new habit and i have little self control with things like this.
 
Rather late in the day, i have learned that you can go through a different set of WDs for each benzo you take. (if i understand correctly)

unlike opiates, in that ANY opiate will relieve WDS and keep you well.

So Shit, i dont even know how much phenaz i use per day; i'll be coutnting up today and tapering pronto. The good news for the phen is thati havent been using it for long a tall, maybe 5-10 days. Possily wont even need a taper as that is a recomended duration of treatment. Could just flush it, but No WAY to that

ive also learnt that phen is good for benzo tapers, but if each one is different how is that going to work ? :?:sus:
 
ive also learnt that phen is good for benzo tapers, but if each one is different how is that going to work ? :?:sus:[/QUOTE]

well if thats the case then it wont....one of the issues with benzo's is the different 1/2 lives of each with valium probably the longest 2-3 days but if you have only been on it for 10 days i wouldnt have thought a taper was necessary
 
Fuck valium I'm starting to think, it's half life is a bit too long for me, it always ends up in me eating loads and going a bit out of character without noticing after a few days and people I've spoken to seem to also (although they are content with them). Keeps messing me up as I'll eat it to sleep too and then I'm fucked the next day still. Just hard to get something like Xanax here compared to blues, wondering if it would be a better choice.
 
mydrugbuddy said:
Rather late in the day, i have learned that you can go through a different set of WDs for each benzo you take. (if i understand correctly)

unlike opiates, in that ANY opiate will relieve WDS and keep you well.
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Yes and no. All opioids relieve WDs but a weak opioid will not do much for withdrawal from a potent full agonist; ie. if you're coming from hydromorphone onto taking maybe buprenorphien or tramadol, you'll still feel relatively shitty, though not as shit as if you took nothing at all.

All benzos are cross-tolerant, but exert their intrinsic effects at different potencies, which is reflected in the withdrawal symptoms - benzos that are strong muscle relaxants and anticonvulsants are more likely to cause spasmodic action and muscle cramps, hypnotics will cause rebound insomnia, and so on. Any benzo will treat withdrawals but if your withdrawal symptoms are bordering on epileptic, chiefly anxiolytic benzos won't help you much, except at heavy doses. All benzos exert the same effects at sufficient dosages.
 
Out of all of this a cuning plan of the Baldrick variety has arisen to me. If they are independent of each other, then why not say have 10 days phenaz, then 10 days etiz, and keep forever rotating, and thus preventing becoming physially dependent on either ???

Genuius eh /. I wait for someone to point out the flaw in my plan.
 
SpecialK_ said:
Just hard to get something like Xanax here compared to blues, wondering if it would be a better choice.
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Probably not, no.

I started out on Xanax 4 years ago and loved it a little too much. Was initially supposed to get me through the odd day of anxiety, ended up taking more than double the recommended amount each day almost every day within a few months. I'd also missed breaks as I'd forgotten when I started taking them and when the last break was etc. Cue rebound anxiety from hell. Definitely the worst rebound anxiety/WD's I've ever experienced on any benzo.

Valium does take far too long to come out of your system though. Personally, even if I've been off them for a couple of weeks, I still feel shitty. I've found etizolam works best for me. The WD's are nowhere near as bad as Xanax, and when I take a break I feel like I'm over the worst of it within a week. Everybody's different though I guess. But I'd avoid the Xanax if I were you.
 
xanex did fuck all for me so i got my doc to switch me to valium - i do a few days on and a few off so never get a habit, also never feel shitty the next day but then the most i need is 2 blues and a bottle of wine or 1 and some gear
 
mydrugbuddy said:
Out of all of this a cuning plan of the Baldrick variety has arisen to me. If they are independent of each other, then why not say have 10 days phenaz, then 10 days etiz, and keep forever rotating, and thus preventing becoming physially dependent on either ???

Genuius eh /. I wait for someone to point out the flaw in my plan.
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They are cross-tolerant and doing that will raise your benzo tolerance massively. The dependancy builds to the effects of the drugs on your GABA receptor complex, where it enhances its inhibitory effects. Your body adapts to this effect, and since they all work via the same mechanism, they are cross-tolerant. Your brain desensitizes and reduces the number of GABA receptors and make various other changes. It will adapt to benzos working as a part of the inhibitory system, and sudden cessation leads to withdrawal symptoms as the body attempts to return to homeostasis, but suddenly with receptors in unnatural states, and the odds highly unbalanced in favor of the excitatory neurotransmitters.

All benzos exert the same effects to some level so taking them induces tolerance to hypnotic, sedative, anticonvulsant, anxiolytic and muscle relaxant properties. Tolerance occurs rapidly for hypnotic, sedative, anticonvulsant, and muscle relaxant effectss, and much slower for anxiolytic and amnesic effects, but whatever benzos you take will raise your tolerance to all of those. Your body doesn't discriminate; they do the same job at the receptor sites and that's good enough.

My only point was that, rather obviously perhaps, benzos are the best at relieving (withdrawal) symptoms they are efficient in treating. If you have rebound insomnia, all benzos will relieve that symptom and get you to sleep, but a hypnotic one (like flunitrazepam or midazolam) will do that much better than a non-sedative one like (like clonazepam or bromazepam). The non-sedative ones WILL do it but at a larger comparative dose than the hypnotics. Xanax is poor for most withdrawals as it is not a strong muscle relaxant, anticonvulsant, sedative or hypnotic, so you have to take lots of it to achieve relief from those effects. Other benzos, like diazepam, lorazepam and flunitrazepam possess all intrinsic actions to a significant degree and will work against all the withdrawal symptoms effectively.
 
This is something I've argued about before. All benzos target the GABA-a receptor. So, this means that different benzos hit different parts of the receptor. I've never got a proper answer on which ones target which. I disagree totally about Xanax, I feel it hits more buttons than any. Maybe that's just my anxiety, though. I can live off 1mg of xanax every 48 hours, rather than 15-20mg of diaz. It lowers my anxiety levels for the same amount of time. Seems weird to me, but it could be psychological. I've not tried phenaz, but I'll get some of the powder, as I treat benzos with a huge amount of respect. Seriously. Had enough powdered Xanax and diaz.
 
Thanks for the replies. So if i was foolish enough to become dependant on 2 different types of benzo at the same time, ad then suddenly stopped taking one of them., presumably the only WDs id feel would be those not covered by type B or tpe A, as eirher type would take care of its own target binder locations on its own, leaving only those recepotors not covered by just one type left exposed to wd ?

(fuckin hell thas hard to make that sentence make sense, not sure that it does) :?

But essentially it wouldnt be a full on full blown total withdrawl so one benzo would cover some of the symptoms of the other? (not that im planning on testing any of this)
 
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No, you'd pretty much end up with full withdrawal, as you would have halved your dose (or whatever). It's that simple. The fact that diaz can be used to get anyone off any benzo is evidence of this.
 
God damn. Coming off 4 months of 2mg lorazepam daily, instead of deciding to convert to an equivalent dose, my doctor began the taper schedule with 10mg diazepam as the dose for the first two weeks, and 5mg on the third.

I'll give it a shot but I already feel a bit nasty coming off the Ativan; 10mg of diazepam certainly doesn't feel like 2mg lorazepam.
 
^^^^that's just gonna drive you to the blaclk market i would have thought ? Totally pointless to be so unrealistically strict..the longer the taper the more succesfull the outcome. Find that quote somewhere and shove it in his face lol.

Back to the benzo switching, I remember SHM asking questions along very silimillar lines. It must have been a benzo thread or very slihjt chance it was about opis.

Anyway, he asked why do people who use these things switch and rotate through many types all the time. I dont think id tried bezoes by that point so I replied that i guessed it was to prevent tolerance and development building up. So, we are back there again now.

Is there really something in regular switching to prevent dependencies ?

Thanks for the warnings about the Phen guys, i wanted to do something a bit wreckless, but theres reckless, and then theres stupid. So after 5 days of escalating phenazepam doses, i knocked it on the head, and plan to abstain for at least 1 week. Then I might go back for 5 more days of my new favouritre drinkie.

I didnt miss the phen atall physically, just often thought "God id love a wee dram or 5 of that right now"
 
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