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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Benzo and Z drugs crossover ?

mydrugbuddy

mydrugbuddy

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I feel certain that both classes of drugs are hitting the same brain receptors to various degrees.

Etizolam now has so few hypnotic effects left for me that i can take 30 and not feel it. Can still fell the anxiolysis though.

My ah taper has now twice hit a brick wall when its a couple of days way from jump off. Why ? Because i cant sleep for days and days before hand.

Maybe i need a Nick Cotton or Ewan Mcregor doing on me; barricaded inside until "cured" :\

Desperate to sleep last night i took 200mg ah rather than my usual 30 mg. What a great sleep. I obvioulsy dont wanna go back up to 200 ah, and start all over again.....

can i try again @ 30 and 'mach it out' (or cheating by taking a zopiclone) i cant read on the tablets if they are 7.5 or 75. Anyone know whats most likely ?

As to the interactions with evrything else, im eliminating hard liqour, have a lick of phenazepam left,could take some pregabalins, phenergans.

im alos thinking of staggered or tapered chunks, like knock 2 etiz off 1 day, knco 20 ah off the next.

AH has just become something i cant sleep without now, Jeez what a great drug into.

if you were me would you stick to the 30 ah and take a zopi and go easy ion the other stuff, or just wham the ah back up to 150 or 100 (it took weeks to get down to 30)

thank you.
 
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The Zopiclone will be 7.5 and they are pretty safe to take in larger quantities for the short term much like Benzos, I've seen a doctor give someone 10 on a GBL withdrawal.

They never worked much for me but Zolpidem worked OK for a bit, If it were me I'd try and keep in the AH taper and use the Zs as needed.

You can only deal with one thing at a time mate and sounds like you're doing fine, hang on in there I'm sure the insomnia will improve in time.
 
I'd really try to keep the dose of Zs down, I've found tolerance is a a real problem with those and rises way quicker then normal Benzos.

You don't hear about it quite so much in the UK but Zolpidem (Ambien) is widely abused in the states with people taking stupid doses.

Staying off the booze as much as possible is a good idea, it's way too easy to start drinking like a fish when your under that kinda stress.

Take care of yourself:)
 
That's definitely the best way to use them.

I was on Zolpidem for too long and had a rough time coming off them, not worth what relief they gave.

I've been on and off Codeine and MST for about an year now but seem to be managing to avoid serious dependence, I went 5 days with nothing recently and part from being in pain I was pretty much OK. Keeping the dose down has been the key but I'm only using them for pain and I know if I take too many I'll have to front up my GP for more, I've avoided sourcing them elsewhere.
 
Mela said:
Hyplon/Zaleplon...

Capsules with nice powder inside. You know what to do with it ;)

But, tbh, if your tolerance to the hynotic effects is so extreme, some tapered downtime may be worth considering :)
Click to expand...

believe me i have, with several addictions on the go, its kind of hard to do them all at once as a dr advised me to do. NO THANKS. I certainly might as well cap my use of etiz as it doesnt help me sleep anyway. So thanks for that very important idea youve raised. youve clarified that 1 in my head at least. I think thats an important, and very indightfull one. They are just breaking my brain more and more with no benefit. cap of 20 starts today. Reduce at my own rate. then finish ah. then continue finishing with benzos and cigs.....easy

oh, one good think i have mastered stimulants. Can take em or leave em. buy em or not but them, take them for hours, days, or nights. But i dont need them everyday. Today is 1st day without ethylenidate and i feel much better. Maybe its one of those things that works best taken very episodically.
 
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I just wanted to point out, I think the notion of "insomnia" going away is false. You deal with it or it deals with you.

Some people have a "hard time falling asleep" when things get tough, that's normal.

People (at least me) with insomnia cannot sleep until their body physically can no longer stay awake any longer. And even then, it's a half sleep where your body is resting but your mind is not. People do not understand the havoc that lack of sleep plays on one's system. You are constantly anxious, irritable, tired, etc almost to the point of insanity.

To the OP: Your etizolam usage is way out of hand. I used to be just like you. I'd buy 200 1mg tabs and be through them in a week, 10 days tops. Fuck that shit. It was hard to get off, but it wasn't heroin hard or strong benzo hard.

Just wanted to let you know I feel your pain man, I'm in the same sinking boat, and it's hard to keep tossin those buckets of water over the side.

When I have no narcotics sleep is impossible. However, when I do have narcs I can usually minimize my consumption with a few tricks:

600-900mg of Gabapentin with a strong beer or two and multiple hits of indica marijuana can usually do it, but not always.
600mg Gabapentin + 2-3mg of Xanax (my favorite benzo for sleeping) will always do it.
300mg Gabapentin + 8mg Klonopin (staggered throughout the day) with a little marijauana always puts me to sleep.

The Z-Drugs are fun, but I've always found a regular benzo put me and kept me asleep much better/longer.

I always try to walk at least 3 miles minimum a day, that way if my mind won't be sleeping at least my body might collapse after like day 2-3 days no sleep.

Anyways, good luck. I know the doses I posted are considered to be rather high, and dangerous. But they are the doses that I take, and the OP sounds like he has himself one heck of a tolerance.

TAPER SLOW
 
I'm making it up as i go on along now , the medical profession dont know what to do apart from lie to me and fob me off.

Im puttng an upper limit cap on my evening etiz now. Whats the point of taking 30 if it does no more than 10 !!!!! :\

20 etiz in the evening now (reducing by 1 every day or 2 or 3 until i get to about 5 per day) then think again. I might as well as this is the etiz is not performing its hypnoticfunction for me.

then in the evenings i have my tiny pile of ah either with or without a zopi. NOW i am twice bitten third shy. Im not getting hooked on no z fuckers too. Im not gonna eat any food or fatty drinks after 5 pm. have the ah before bed.

to avoid z addiction i wonder if its better to take it on alternate days or 14 days straight. I think alternate or every 3 or 4 days is best. Cos it gives your mind more time to adjust, thats a theory ive just 'made up' anyway'. The alternate days you know youre going to get 1 good nights sleep in eventually, hopefully. Rather than ooops all 14 gone , still cant sleep, im now addicted to etiz, zs znd ah. 8o

fucking hell if i had tried to make this more difficult id have struggled.

RIP Charlie.
 
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what a state to get into, i dread to think what your memory is like on all that
 
thanks dan, thats just the kind of supportive words i wanted to hear.

I know you're perfectly right in what you say. I just think such comments might make people think ppl twice abt posting if thats the kind of response theyre gonna get.

I m perfectly aware ive got myself into a state and didnt need reminding. Whatever, I have faith in myself. This naffest of analogies uses an onion - oh that layer was weak, ooh there was a strong layer under that....etc etc.......There are cores of strength and weakness within me. Whether it takes a detox, whatever, i want off.

FOCUS ON THE FINAL GOAL.

My memory is sporadic. Where did i just put that fuckin remote. why did i come into this room......not too worried yet. If i get it under control use it will be abouut 2 years of moderate use, with about 3 months off the top of the scale.

i think that no longer trying to uselessly use etiz for sleep is a big step, in a good way, i think.

IMO my plan in #14 is sound. Better than anything else ive tried to come off without hitting brick walls.
 
Dan, you speak the truth,so i am not going to childishly block you and convenienently avoid some unpleasant truths as aeasy as that. I just hope if/when you have any problems you get treated with more understanding that you display,. Arent we here to support each other not bring each other down in shame in anger.

keep tellin it is as it is fella, until it happens to you .

thanks for your helpful response BM. Ive thougt about walking myself to exhaustion. got lots of 'real life shit' to deal with at the moment, benefits mess etc. i have a warm room and a roof over my head at least.

those fuckin pregas taking once every 14 days or so are ace. Also brilliant for pains liked trapped nerves or muscles. Why dont uk GPs prescribe these things, Im starting to think something stinks. The best and most appropriate medicine is not being applied. "have a fuckin useless ibuprofen instead"

WHY :?

Either through lack of knowledge or other incentives.....
 
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UK doctors do prescribe pregabalin... But not half as much as they do in the US obviously.

If it were I I'd cut out the AH first. You're nearly there with that one. The final push is always the hardest part cos your body has to make a bigger adjustment going from reduced levels of opioid to no opioid. That bit is never easy - this is why there are people stuck on sillylow doses of methadone for long periods of time (I knew of one on 2ml for years on end cos he just couldn't face that last drop). You won't be able to sleep for a couple days. That's just the way it is. It's not for long though. Just feels like forever :\

However, as it's only a brief period of horrid insomnia when you cut it out that means you can take advantage of that fact you can use a short run on z-drugs to assist. I find 'em great for sleeping even with some benzo tolerance. But only for short periods. Benzos stay effective for far longer for me and have none of the unpleasant side-effects. That's by the by though.

In short I'd suggest, bite the bullet and stop the AH. You've done so well to get down so low it seems silly to not get it over and done with now. Use the z-drug of choice to help with the few days of intense insomnia. Then stop with the z-drugs before they become a habit and focus on the etiz. One thing at a time, eh? Juggling addictions like that is no fun at all - especially when the DSP is not taking them seriously :\ - but I don't think you're half as far away from the end goal as you may think <3
 
Thanks Shambles. Thats all i can say. But I have a feeling my ah insomnia will last a little longer than 2 or 3 days.

It starts when im down to about 40 -30 mg. So dropping off there prolongs the physical wds and time for bodily adjustment.

If i wait until im down to 0 ah that prolongs things even more ? its stringing out the taper TNA ?

The last twice ive jumped off at 30 ive failed. once to wds and once to insomnia.

sorry im babbling; is it better to intersperce z drugs to avoid addiction and get a good kip every 2 or 3 nights at least or take all 14 on consecutive nights ?

maybe by using 7 ZS i could drop by 10 ah per night with a z so im from 50 to 2 days clean. Then evaluate. Then tale the othe other 7 zs and hope im not addicted to them (7 days is the recommended duration, but 14 wouldn't be too bad ? would it )
 
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I have zero experience with AH so you may actually know better than I unfortunately. Is quite a long-acting opioid, no? That's not good and would explain extended w/d and insomnia. Is why methadone w/d goes on for weeks :|

Is kinda tricky if you only have 14 to play with. Genrally I'd say better to just stop the opioid and use all 14 to deal with the consequences. However, I do understand how hellish extended w/d are and wonder if you actually have enough to stick with it. Is it feasible to continue tapering the AH to a lower level? I'm not sure how much this would help cut down the extended insomnia but would cut more of the other w/d effects down more.

It almost sounds like you'd be better off switching from AH to codeine for the final stage as that really is easy to taper and stop. Although getting into another habit-forming drug may not be ideal either. Is a horrible situation to be in but I think the hard truth of the matter is that you just won't be able to completely eliminate the shittiest aspect of detoxing. At some stage you actually have to detox instead of just tapering. The lower the doses the easier the detox is but it's never gonna be easy I'm afraid :\
 
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