Belviq (lorcaserin): A brand-new weight loss drug, with interesting properties...

[endotropic]

Hallucinations doesn't necessarily mean fun. But if it is, then I want some! Is it FDA approved yet?

Edit: Never mind.

"euphoria was observed in 0.17% of patients taking BELVIQ and 0.03% taking
placebo...
reports of depression/mood problems occurred in 2.6% BELVIQ-treated vs. 2.4%
placebo-treated and suicidal ideation occurred in 0.6% BELVIQ-treated
vs. 0.4% placebo-treated patients."

So it's 3 times more likely to make you suicidal than euphoric.

It made .14% of people euphoric (.17-.03), and .2% suicidal (.6-.4), so roughly similar. Or if you look at it another way it made ~6 times as many people euphoric (.17/.03) and only 1.5 times as many suicidal (.6/.4).

Anyways, number masturbation aside, that data is at prescribed doses. If there's any fun in it, it won't come out at therapeutic levels.

 

[abracadabra girl]

Anyways, number masturbation aside, that data is at prescribed doses. If there's any fun in it, it won't come out at therapeutic levels.

Actually I didn't quote the whole thing. The euphoria was only reported at double the normal dose. I don't recall about the depression.

It occurs to me that as it acts on seratonin, it may take weeks to have any effect, just like SSRI's. Taking it recreationally without using it daily may not do anything at all.

 

[abracadabra girl]

I now have some Belviq in my hot little hands. (Well, I will on Friday, at any rate. The pharmacy has to order them.) So should I just keep taking one every hour until I feel euphoric, or what?

 

[SeenSoFar]

Actually I didn't quote the whole thing. The euphoria was only reported at double the normal dose. I don't recall about the depression.

It occurs to me that as it acts on seratonin, it may take weeks to have any effect, just like SSRI's. Taking it recreationally without using it daily may not do anything at all.

Very unlikely, SSRIs don't work by direct 5-HT agonism but rather by blocking the SERT. The delay in effects is caused by the time it takes for the synaptic 5-HT levels to stabilize at an increased level and the 5-HT receptors to respond to said increased level. This drug hits 5-HT_2A and 5-HT_2C directly, in the same way as LSD, psilocin, the 2C-Xs, and every other classical psychedelic does. Depending on the speed of absorbtion and other factors, it may come on slowly over several hours (Br-DFly being an extreme example of this), but it would shock me if the effects took longer than that to become apparent.

I now have some Belviq in my hot little hands. (Well, I will on Friday, at any rate. The pharmacy has to order them.) So should I just keep taking one every hour until I feel euphoric, or what?

At the risk of sounding irresponsible, FUCKING FINALLY!! Now we can start to settle this once and for all. I've been dying to know if there's anything to this since I saw it, since I've got some ideas for tweaks that might make the base pharmacophore a lot better. My best advice for how to proceed, provided you have enough to play with, and you'd like to produce meaningful data for the community instead of just a quick high, is this: take one to check for any adverse reactions or hypersensitivity. If nothing horrific happens, wait 3-4 days, then take 2. See what happens, then wait 3-4 days, and take 3. Continue the pattern until you have either reached desirable effects, negative effects have shown themselves, or you have run out. Keep a log of everything, preferrably including things like heartrate and resting blood pressure, so that we will have a good picture of what, if anything, this substance has to offer.

One more thing: My hat goes off to you, now boldly go where no psychonaut has gone before.

 

[abracadabra girl]

First dose, down the hatch!

 

[SeenSoFar]

First dose, down the hatch!

*Queue Star Trek theme music* Psychedelic exploration... The final frontier...

How goes the first dose? I know you won't be getting any sort of psychedelic effects yet, but I'm interested to know what, if anything, you're feeling.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I am a little excited for you. I have been waiting for quite some time to find out if the 8-halo-1-methyl-3-benzazepine pharmacophore has anything to offer. I'd be interested in seeing what 6,9-dimethoxylation has to offer, with at without that seemingly out of place 1-methyl. I'm getting ahead of myself here though... Anyway good luck and godspeed!

 

[abracadabra girl]

Can't tell much yet. At T+2 I felt just a little dizzy, head felt heavy, not sleepy exactly but kind of listless. Similar to the effects of, say, 1 or 2 beers. That lasted about an hour and now I feel normal again. That was on one 10 mg pill [and of course might or might not be related to the pill]. The regular dose is 10 mg twice per day. I presume that like most meds, with regular use the side effects would likely diminish. I'm happy to blow a few pills on testing. (I have 60 pills and am unlikely to get more since my insurance is balking.) So I can either take them as prescribed for a few days and then ramp up, or just take a higher dose with no leadup. What would you suggest?

Edit: forgot to mention a little bit of eye fatigue. Not exactly blurry or jumpy, just a little weird around the edges of my vision. There was some dry mouth. Maybe dry eyes? Could be some high blood pressure shit going on. I should buy a cuff. Also I'm willing to take this to PM if people are getting bored.

 

[SeenSoFar]

Can't tell much yet. At T+2 I felt just a little dizzy, head felt heavy, not sleepy exactly but kind of listless. Similar to the effects of, say, 1 or 2 beers. That lasted about an hour and now I feel normal again. That was on one 10 mg pill [and of course might or might not be related to the pill]. The regular dose is 10 mg twice per day. I presume that like most meds, with regular use the side effects would likely diminish. I'm happy to blow a few pills on testing. (I have 60 pills and am unlikely to get more since my insurance is balking.) So I can either take them as prescribed for a few days and then ramp up, or just take a higher dose with no leadup. What would you suggest?

Edit: forgot to mention a little bit of eye fatigue. Not exactly blurry or jumpy, just a little weird around the edges of my vision. I'm willing to take this to PM if people are getting bored.

I think its better to keep it public, so people can have a record for the future, although feel free to PM me any time!

If it were me, and provided you are trying to get the feel for the psychedelic dose and not achieve weight loss, that is, I would not take it as directed, since that will build a tolerance and skew the results. The way I would do it would be to take single escalating doses, leaving a few days in between to let tolerance diminish. So now that you've taken 10mg, I would wait 3-4 days, then take 20mg, then 3-4 days of nothing, then 30mg, and so on. That way, if and when psychedelic effects emerge, we will have a pretty good idea what dose your average Joe should start with.

If you were to take it as directed and then ramp up the dose, downregulation of your 5-HT2_A/C receptors would mean you may need multiple times as much as the next fellow to achieve the desired result, and it would also be possible that you couldn't even achieve the full spectrum of effects at all. Such is the nature of 5-HT2_A agonist tolerance.

Either way, I salute you for your desire to tread where few have before and blaze the trail for the rest of us. You are one after my own heart...

 

[abracadabra girl]

I'm feeling a second wind, more energized and social, and ironically hungry. Still can't say for sure if it's the pill or just random mood variations. (I have not had any other substances though.)

I'm not the scientist that it sounds like you are, so I appreciate the info. Sounds like a good plan. I'll wait a few days and then jump to 30mg ... taking mass into account. LOL.

 

[SeenSoFar]

I'm feeling a second wind, more energized and social, and ironically hungry. Still can't say for sure if it's the pill or just random mood variations. (I have not had any other substances though.)

I'm not the scientist that it sounds like you are, so I appreciate the info. Sounds like a good plan. I'll wait a few days and then jump to 30mg ... taking mass into account. LOL.

Well, I cannot say for sure if the effects you feel are placebo, unrelated, or a result of direct pharmacological action of the drug, but I can tell you that 5-HT2_A agonists, which is what psychedelic drugs are, make me hungry as hell, which is the opposite of their effects on most individuals. Whenever I trip with someone new I ALWAYS get the "YOU CAN EAT ON *insert substance of choice for the day here*?!? You're WEIRD, man!!" reaction when I invariably make a sandwitch or order a pizza a few hours into the trip.

[Off topic]
One time, when I was rather deep in a 2C-E experience, I was discovered by a friend pasting slices of expensive french cheese all over my face. I started out eating it, but got lost along the way...
[/Off topic]

Well, you could call me an armchair scientist, but a degree is on the horizon for me, so close enough. Anyway, if you feel comfortable jumping 20mg up, I don't see any reason you shouldn't. Doses higher than that were used in clinical trials without catastrophy, so it shouldn't be dangerous, especially if you are a bigger girl as you've implied, since weight does play a part in active dose.

Also, just for your information, I find a curvy woman to be beautiful beyond all measure. Do with the information what you will ;P

 

[abracadabra girl]

I should definitely PM you then.

Love the cheese story. One of my most intense near-orgasmic experiences was eating jellybeans while on 2c-i. I didn't get around to wearing them though.

I thought everyone ate while on LSD. But it is ironic that a weight-loss drug could make me hungry. Let's just assume it wasn't at full therapeutic concentration yet.

 

[abracadabra girl]

Belviq 30 mg - all the bad of MDMA but none of the good.

I took 3 pills around 6 pm. I had not had dinner yet. I bit them to break through the enteric coating but I don't know if this made much difference.

I would say within 15 minutes I was feeling something, and for nearly 2 hours I was uncomfortable, agitated, and grinding my teeth. It felt very much like coming up on ecstasy so I knew how to ride it out and eagerly waited for the good feelings which I assumed would also be like ecstasy. But that never happened.

At the 2 hour mark the feelings changed very suddenly, even abruptly, to a smooth feeling, a lot like benzos. I felt relaxed, fatigued, and calm. I felt much better but I would not class it as euphoric. I could not concentrate very well. Doing anything on the computer was very challenging. I preferred to close my eyes and chill. Luckily I did not have the dry eyes or dry mouth I had the first time.

There was no tactile enhancement; if anything there was a slight anesthetic effect. I tried to masturbate but could not finish, which is very rare for me. No empathetic or social feelings. I put on some music and I did enjoy it, but it was not transcendant. So let's say slight enhancement if any. I had no desire to eat, and as an experiment I tried a bite of chocolate [my favorite], and it didn't taste good.

The sensations seemed to change in occasional waves - I'd feel depressed for just a few seconds, then back to peaceful again. I also had some temperature dysregulation throughout, with waves of feeling too hot or too cold even though the temperature in the room didn't change much.

At the 4 hour mark I started to feel sober again. Hunger and focus both started to return. I was completely back to normal after 5 hours total.

I found this in the prescribing literature:

In a human abuse potential study in recreational drug abusers,

How do I get in on one of those??? LOL. I wonder if they recruited on BL.

supratherapeutic oral doses of lorcaserin (40 and 60 mg) produced up
to two- to six-fold increases on measures of “High”, “Good Drug Effects”,
“Hallucinations” and “Sedation” compared to placebo. These responses
were similar to those produced by oral administration of the positive
control drugs, zolpidem (15 and 30 mg) and ketamine (100 mg).

This tells me that even 30 mg might be too small a dose. I am unsure if I want to go any higher, because the initial effects were unpleasant. I might try a larger dose on a full stomach, without breaking the coating, and see if it's any better.

It's also interesting that they chose zolpidem and ketamine as their controls. I've never tried zolpidem, but I don't think this was anything like ketamine. I felt high and sedated. "Good drug effects" is debatable, and there were no hallucinations.

 

[endotropic]

You mention no hallucinations, but just to clarify, you had no visual disturbances, eyes open or closed?

 

[SeenSoFar]

Hmm... Honestly that sounds so much like a bare threshold of a psychedelic compound. I think we're onto something here! When I have taken very low doses of certain compounds while trying to establish active levels, I have encountered exactly the feeling you're describing. I think actually from the binding profile of this compound, its possible you are experiencing primarily 5-HT_2C-mediated effects, with the 5-HT_2A-mediated effects hardly showing through at all. I think its time to raise the dose! If it were me, at this point I'd aim for 40-60mg at this point. Since you said you are heavier, I would shoot for the higher end... That's just me though.

Go forth, you magnificent goddess of psychedelia! Deliver us news of psychedelic pharmaceuticals!

Seriously though, you're so awesome. This has been bugging me, as well as others I'm sure, for ages, so you are so great for taking steps to elucidate the effects of this compound for us!

 

[abracadabra girl]

No, no visual changes at all. No tracers or even interest in bright colors.

I know a higher dose might have more effect, but the come up was so unpleasant (speedy) that I am hesitant. Like I said, maybe on a full stomach it wouldn't hit as hard ... I just don't know.

 

[endotropic]

No, no visual changes at all. No tracers or even interest in bright colors.

I know a higher dose might have more effect, but the come up was so unpleasant (speedy) that I am hesitant. Like I said, maybe on a full stomach it wouldn't hit as hard ... I just don't know.

Go with your gut. You've contributed a lot to what we know already, and you don't owe us anything. Be safe.

 

[SeenSoFar]

He's absolutely right, if you have doubts, then go with them. I thought by your post that you were eager to continue, but if not, don't feel pressured.

You have started the process of solving this mystery. Others will start where you've left off. Don't feel that you owe myself, others, or this board anything at all. Please don't take my enthusiasm for pressure.

 

[abracadabra girl]

No worries. I'm not very susceptible to peer pressure. Just ask all the guys in the lounge who want to see my tits.

I just wish I knew a way to take 60 mg but ease the comeup.

 

[ebola?]

If I were to guess the nature of the activity at a higher level, perhaps it might end up feeling like one of the more stimulating but quasi-psychedelic piperazines (eg, mcPPP).

ebola

 

[mad_scientist]

mCPP was actually the original lead compound lorcaserin was developed from. There are several related compounds with much more favourable 5HT2A : 5HT2C ratios than this one, but inevitably lorcaserin will be explored for potential recreational use simply because it has been made available. I'd imagine the 5HT2C activity will make for unpleasant side effects throughout the supratherapeutic dose range, even if there is enough 5HT2A activity at 60mg to be properly psychedelic it will probably be an uncomfortable trip.