Beating Vivitrol?

[Limpet_Chicken]

Naloxone is also much more weight-potent than is naltrexone, thus making accumulation of sufficient stock to make precursor use inefficient.

 

[clubcard]

naloxone is easier.

Why? The quaternization & reduction work equally well on both. If you mistakenly think that the route via Wilkinson's catalyst is facile, you are much mistaken. While I do appreciate the value of Parr Hydrogenation units, the catalyst doesn't last long, you need a lot of it ($$$$) and it's pyrophoric. If you need a few grams then fine, beyond that it just doesn't add up.

Much better to have a whole palette of precursors. Of course, since many of the nor compounds are considered inactive, they could reasonably be items of commerce. That being the case, just acquire them. I don't need to point out that you need to check the law in your locale. Anyone pumping out something covered by the MoDA will become intimately acquainted with the justice system. I don't make the law, I don't agree with the law BUT it is the law.

 

[polymath]

That's damn dangerous, forcing anyone onto something like that. What's going to happen when some poor bastard is forced onto that and then ends up in a car wreck, pulped beyond recognition as a human being, but still not able to die? with no painkillers whatsoever because they won't work? I hope it doesn't happen, but at the same time if and IMO, WHEN it does, I really hope patients sue the fuck out of the bastards responsible for pushing this filth.

This is why I thought for a while that something like this could be a better alternative to naltrexone:

https://indiana.pure.elsevier.com/e...ceptor-antagonist-naltriben-selectively-atten

However, there seems to be conflicting reports about the effect of delta blockade on drug-seeking behavior. In some tests the delta blockers even made it worse. Maybe it was tested on different species of rodents, or maybe genetically different breeds of the same species.

Kappa agonists would probably work as painkillers even on naltrexone, but then there would be the problem of delirious, hallucinating trauma patient.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

The law is the law, truly spoken CC, but at the same time, the only true crimes, are either getting caught, or releasing noxious waste where it must not be released. And only one of these is deserving of punishment.

 

[clubcard]

Naloxone MW 327, naltrexone MW 341.... yeah, HUGE difference - 4%. The addition salt and water of crystallization have a vastly bigger bearing on the mol/wt

Nalmefene, butorphanol, Levallorphan, naltrexol, diprenorphine, oxilorphan, nalbuphene, nalorphine, samidorphan.... items of commerce.


Chicken - whatever your opinion, you get nabbed with a lot of stuff covered by the MoDA and you can get life. Why take the risk? There is enough stuff NOT on the MoDA to go for. Still, if you insist, it's your choice. If the worst happens then send me a VO. I am at least loyal to friends who get sent down. I must have spent months on the Isle of White ferry visiting C. God alone knows what tripping inside Parkhurst is like but he did it regularly....


The old adage - YCFS applies.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

What is a VO? visiting order?

A kind offer, will do if I get banged up, if you offer, it'd be good to have company of intellect at times if I were banged up again ever.

Have been once, but the pork are determined to look for something quite different, than drugs. In fact when I WAS banged up, they found my stash toolbox, with all manner of powders with three-letter acronyms and chemical structures drawn on vials and baggies, various dried rootbarks, seeds, leaves (no weed or other pot at the time), All manner of funky psychotropics, from barbital to iporuru rootbark, along with a big black dustbin bag of N2O whippits and a cracker.

I lost it all, but I never was charged with possession, despite the fact that some, not all, but a fair lot of the contents were class A. Although just as many were things a copper couldn't even pronounce from the label, let alone identify or have heard of before. Still shitty to have lost that collection, years worth of a stash toolbox, even a big pot of lab grade barbital (free acid) that started off about 30g, traded by someone who used it at work, for, of all things, promethazine, which he couldn't obtain in his country. Shocked to get an offer like THAT alright, but hey, if someone knows what they ask for in return, no skin off my nose to go buy a load of promethazine OTCs for such a boon.

Who am I to say no to that sort of offer?

But, the filth seem to believe I'm more likely to be a mad bomber or CW lone wolf. So what is not there, was what was looked for. And not being there, of course it was not found.

A bit of OTC H2O2 from a pharmacy, in a mostly empty bottle, they went mental, moles of P2NP, P2NPane and P2P? never even mentioned.

I'll say one thing about the filth round here, that aside from their virulent personal hatred of me, for the fact that even after getting out off remand after the one time I ever WAS charged with anything remotely lab related (which strictly speaking, wasn't, just an old, childhood cache of explosives that was long forgotten about, although reacted most unpleasantly to, did 8 months and probation after on a tag curfew, part of it in cat-A, in The Ways, transferred from the feculent pestilential foulness known as forest motherfucking bank, that I immediately set up, although having nothing to do, at that age, anymore with explosives, that being a childhood phase, boom clay, flash powder and incendiaries galore, as a lil'un. I was a freak kid lol; and went about building up a bigger, far better, far more extensively equipped lab with far better reagent supplies from the moment I had a few pounds to spare for a thermometer, after buying food that was edible for the first time in 8 months.

I quite honestly....well....I COULDN'T quit chemistry if I wanted to. Not that I want to. It is just too potent a singer of the siren-song of knowledge to be devoured like the finest of sweetmeats. It's in my blood, and it ain't going to be going away.

I really do not think I am actually capable of not partaking of the hobby. I can't do it, I just cannot live that way. well, I might physically continue to metabolize, to exist in a non-decaying state bodily. But I wouldn't think of it as living. I've loved the sciences, whether disciplines I can myself partake of or not, since I was first able to read, from Roger Phillips' fungus guidebook, as my autodidactic teaching material.

That was at 4yo. I'm 32 now, and my interests, and devotion to pursuit of them have only multiplied and become stronger and more deliciously stimmy

That's auties for you though CC, you might be able to forcibly separate an autie from their speshul intrrzt(s) but you cannae' divest the speshul interest from the autie. No more than you can tell a Kanner's guy or girl 'oi, start making eye contact with everybody, being a gregarious extroverted doing-social addict and stop rocking back and forth! more motor stereotypies for you! you are to voluntarily contract severe NTism hencefort for the duration of your natural life.

 

[Jamrock00]

I?m now 58 days post shot after 7 months on the injection (for a pot charge). I?m still getting no pain relief from my perc 15s. I got a tiny nod last night but no pain relief and no euphoria or anything like that. How long is this going to last??!!

 

[novaveritas]

I am at least loyal to friends who get sent down. I must have spent months on the Isle of White ferry visiting C. God alone knows what tripping inside Parkhurst is like but he did it regularly....

I guess C is Casey Hardison.
He wasn't on the island for very long.
and then it was gone

 

[clubcard]

He wasn't on the island for very long.
and then it was gone

No, a good year. Then Stanford Hill; (another ferry) and on to a bit of a tour.

Conducting his own defence didn't make him popular with the judge and Rudi did well not to see a life term handed down.

I knew the guy well before the trouble so I made the effort.

 

[asecin]

Or perhaps more interesting, iodobenzoylnaltrexamide, it's a biased agonist that doesn't recruit beta-arrestin II.

As for using NMDA antagonists to detox, I'm absolutely certain of it, it'll do the trick. Memantine, in my experience completely stripped opioids (oxycodone, morphine, dipropionyl/dibenzoyl/dibutyrylmorphine) of reinforcing properties. And I've used MXE, 3-MeO/3-OH/4-MeO-PCP to kill withdrawals, same goes for diphenidine/methoxphenidine.

im sorry but i didnt understand, what does memantine does to opiate use? does it reset tolerance or what exactly...

also, what do you think of memantine when it comes to alcohol use. maybe it can help somehow??

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Whilst taking memantine, basically I can't get why it isn't offered by default to anyone beginning opioids on a chronic basis, for me at least, it lowered tolerance I already had, it slowed, drastically, acquisition of further tolerance to MOR agonist type opioids, and it made me feel pretty much 'meh' towards them, just another thing that at the time, had to be done, I'm sure if I'd been able to keep on the stuff, I'd be able to drop them entirely. It even has some analgesic effects, not hugely potent but especially effective towards dealing with neuropathic pain.

Great stuff for knocking withdrawals on the head too. So are PCP/MXE/ket-esque compounds, but they are a lot more 'in your face', memantine needs to be taken at HUGE doses to be dissociative.

Also, if mixed together, memantine combined with a potent opioid IV...there are few words to describe it.

 

[clubcard]

What is a VO? visiting order?

A kind offer, will do if I get banged up, if you offer, it'd be good to have company of intellect at times if I were banged up again ever.

Have been once, but the pork are determined to look for something quite different, than drugs. In fact when I WAS banged up, they found my stash toolbox, with all manner of powders with three-letter acronyms and chemical structures drawn on vials and baggies, various dried rootbarks, seeds, leaves (no weed or other pot at the time), All manner of funky psychotropics, from barbital to iporuru rootbark, along with a big black dustbin bag of N2O whippits and a cracker.

I lost it all, but I never was charged with possession, despite the fact that some, not all, but a fair lot of the contents were class A. Although just as many were things a copper couldn't even pronounce from the label, let alone identify or have heard of before. Still shitty to have lost that collection, years worth of a stash toolbox, even a big pot of lab grade barbital (free acid) that started off about 30g, traded by someone who used it at work, for, of all things, promethazine, which he couldn't obtain in his country. Shocked to get an offer like THAT alright, but hey, if someone knows what they ask for in return, no skin off my nose to go buy a load of promethazine OTCs for such a boon.

Who am I to say no to that sort of offer?

But, the filth seem to believe I'm more likely to be a mad bomber or CW lone wolf. So what is not there, was what was looked for. And not being there, of course it was not found.

A bit of OTC H2O2 from a pharmacy, in a mostly empty bottle, they went mental, moles of P2NP, P2NPane and P2P? never even mentioned.

I'll say one thing about the filth round here, that aside from their virulent personal hatred of me, for the fact that even after getting out off remand after the one time I ever WAS charged with anything remotely lab related (which strictly speaking, wasn't, just an old, childhood cache of explosives that was long forgotten about, although reacted most unpleasantly to, did 8 months and probation after on a tag curfew, part of it in cat-A, in The Ways, transferred from the feculent pestilential foulness known as forest motherfucking bank, that I immediately set up, although having nothing to do, at that age, anymore with explosives, that being a childhood phase, boom clay, flash powder and incendiaries galore, as a lil'un. I was a freak kid lol; and went about building up a bigger, far better, far more extensively equipped lab with far better reagent supplies from the moment I had a few pounds to spare for a thermometer, after buying food that was edible for the first time in 8 months.

I quite honestly....well....I COULDN'T quit chemistry if I wanted to. Not that I want to. It is just too potent a singer of the siren-song of knowledge to be devoured like the finest of sweetmeats. It's in my blood, and it ain't going to be going away.

I really do not think I am actually capable of not partaking of the hobby. I can't do it, I just cannot live that way. well, I might physically continue to metabolize, to exist in a non-decaying state bodily. But I wouldn't think of it as living. I've loved the sciences, whether disciplines I can myself partake of or not, since I was first able to read, from Roger Phillips' fungus guidebook, as my autodidactic teaching material.

That was at 4yo. I'm 32 now, and my interests, and devotion to pursuit of them have only multiplied and become stronger and more deliciously stimmy

That's auties for you though CC, you might be able to forcibly separate an autie from their speshul intrrzt(s) but you cannae' divest the speshul interest from the autie. No more than you can tell a Kanner's guy or girl 'oi, start making eye contact with everybody, being a gregarious extroverted doing-social addict and stop rocking back and forth! more motor stereotypies for you! you are to voluntarily contract severe NTism hencefort for the duration of your natural life.

Yeah - I got SB looking at me because I told the Dutch thay my forename is Irish (a mistake, in retrospect). I know a guy who use to sell 100Kg batches of P2NP. He knew full well what it was for but it isn't a scheduled precursor so it was legal. He perfected the synthesis. NaOH @ RT left in a fucking big drum. Items of commerce. He set up to sell the ring-substituted versions (and the OTS company name was hilarious) but if you know him, you will know about 'lab cat'.

He set me a problem. A route the P2P using only 3 reagents, only 1 organic and taking 3 hours @ 65C. He found it somewhere, couldn't believe it so tried it.... I have spent 10 years trying to figure it out. He said he just smelled the P2P (pretty distinctive) in the flask so no nasty volatiles (I presume).

If you know about lab cat you will know who I mean. I call him 'The Mad Major' and I'm sure you will know why

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

NONONONONO! NOT a perfect route.

Alkali hydroxides and the nitroparaffins having an acidic alpha-hydrogen react to form nitronates. These are shock-sensitive, friction sensitive explosives.

One wants the acetate salt of a primary or mixed primary-secondary amine. Some benzaldehydes prefer some amine acetates, some others, but shit, running 100kg that way would mean I'd go nowhere within any closer than a range needing binoculars.

The lower the mol.wt of the nitroalkane, the more dangerous the nitronate.

Lab cat? never heard of it/them.

Shortest route to P2P I know, is to use P2NP and subject it to 80 'C in a stirred slurry of fine iron dust and a catalytic quantity of FeCl3 hydrate in either HCl or GAA. The HCl variant I've never performed, but it would form FeCl3 in-situ after a delay, but otherwise, P2NP, acid, iron, that makes four reagents if using HCl, five if using GAA.

I will assume by SB you did not mis-capitalize the periodic symbol for antimony, can you elucidate?

65 'C seems a bit low for that rxn though. And if one uses borohydride (5-6x excess) to go from the alkene to alkane, then that same Fe-FeCl3/acid reaction can be done in 2-3 hours and reduce the nitroalkane to amphetamine in one pot, once of course, one has P2NP. And that, using the classic two reagents, the aldehyde that smells of cyanide or almond essence, and is often used in the latter, and nitroethane, the Knoevanagel can be cut from 6-7 hours on the steam bath right down to 20 minutes to half an hour, less still in small batches, this being on a molar scale or greater) by nuking it in the microwave, in a flask uncapped, but fitted with a plug of wadded up bog roll (I would highly recommended it being unused for it's intended purpose of course)

The catalyst LC prefers, is triethylenetetramine acetate. For unsubstituted P2NP it works like the touch of an angel, absolutely fantastic.

The bog roll plug stops P2NP vapor coming out but without permitting pressure buildup that would due to pressure, blast a flask capped and clipped to pieces as pressure increases. A clooooose eye is needed and after an initial burst of irradiation, then short pulses of a few seconds each, intermittent cooling in cold water, to RT, then nuking again, until total irradiation time allocated has been performed, since MW heating is nonlinear)

But..it works so much better, TETA-acetate solventless MW irradiation rxn, and you cut off 6.5 hours or so, and the product, rather than starting is not red or orange, it is yellow, purity is superior, and the time is so much better, one could, assuming one possessed sufficient reagents, make many moles in the time to do a few hundred grams with a steam bath. Still needs re-x, but goddamn, it works a charm. Not tested the use of ethanolamine acetate ionic liquid based routes yet which are said to be even better, or doing this in a MW, but fuck me, the microwave route, it is amazing. Since learning it, I've NEVER EVER heated any other way. But 3 reagents? would you PM me the procedure? just because I can't see it, other than Friedel-Crafts on benzene and that takes two organic components, benzene, acetone. Plus lewis cid, and of course any solvent used.

Nitroethane, benzaldehyde and amine cat, do you count the likes of TETA-acetate as organics? only a little is used. And do you count GAA if used as solvent?

Although I prefer to dispense with solvent entirely, just catalyst, equimolar benz and nitro, a little bit of FeCl3 hydrate, and no solvent at all, unless using 1ml nitroethane above the needed ratio per 10ml benz, and either distilling it off, or burning the washings (I've no nitro shortage)

But mixing nitroparaffins and caustic alkali makes nitronates, which are dangerous.

Although it IS possible to use P2NPane, from borohydride reduction of P2NP along with diborane or borane:THF adduct to reduce to amphetamine, this is of course, dangerous. B2H6 or BH3:THF are highly dangerous and not for a hobbyist to use, unless they KNOW what they are doing with them. Won't reduce the nitroalkenes, but a nitronate, yes. Still, not a route I'm enthusiastic about.

 

[clubcard]

No, the use of NaOH as catalyst for production of nitroalkenes has a good 120 year history. If you keep them cold, they it doesn't even dehydrate You get the nitroalcohol. Shulgin uses this precise route through numerous papers. I really don't know who to believe, the guy making tonne batches for decades, Shulgin's own papers, the Dutch guys buying from TMM or you. Wait, I DO know who to believe. Do some homework. CTH of the nitropropene (or indeed the nitroalcohol) were uniformly the choice because just like the P2NP synthesis TMM used - it requires minimum effort. It's even conveniently wetted with methanol; perfect. KBH4 will cheaply and conveniently reduce to the aminoalcohol..... These aren't people who got a Salter chemistry set for Christmas.

Grow up.


Now lots of people will wonder why KBH4 is used - it's CHEAP.

On another note, their is usually a strict listed hierarchy in the thermolytic dealkylation of tetraalkylammonium moiety thus;

allyl > benzyl > methyl > ethyl > isopropyl > n-butyl > phenyl

This doesn't deal with the stability of the carbocation formed (although the allyl is a hint).

While base-catalysed dealkylation is even more fussy about the character of the carbocation, that can certainly be used as an advantage. As I mentioned, you would regret using ethanolamine but one of the alternatives conveniently deprotects methyl aryl ethers.

I mention this purely in the interest of research since a lot of this stuff is on the ED so presumably known to all.