Bali Nine Australians Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran to be executed together in Bal

No parent gets a medal at child birth. Come back to me when both our kids are 18 and decide which one is rotting in a Sout East Asian prison.

I'm pretty sure chans parents are regretting a few life choices as we speak
 
I can tell my kids not to do something, and they know by my angry voice that I am unhappy. If I am fierce enough I know they won't do it again. It doesn't stop be smacking them as punishment though, there still has to be consequences.

and you dont think that ten years imprisonment in a foreign country is suitable enough "consequence" for drug importation?

in your logic; would you walk your children into the forest in the middle of the night, putting a reflective target on their chest, and shoot them via firing squad in the pitch darkness AFTER locking them in a dungeon for ten years as punishment simply because as they entered early adulthood, decided to traffic illegal drugs?

come on busty.

...kytnism...:|
 
I hope my parenting starts a little earlier than that first visit to a Bali prison. Chan himself admitted he had a troubled childhood. You can't helicopter parent a teenager, but you can guide them away from thinking making a quick buck by trafficking heroin out of a country with the death penalty is a smart idea.

We all make mistakes, but a genius mistake is discovery penicillin on a moldy slice of bread. An idiots mistake ends in a firing squad.

i feel for those two men, but greed drove them to this unfortunate finale, not some archaic law book.
 
I hope my parenting starts a little earlier than that first visit to a Bali prison. Chan himself admitted he had a troubled childhood. You can't helicopter parent a teenager, but you can guide them away from thinking making a quick buck by trafficking heroin out of a country with the death penalty is a smart idea.

We all make mistakes, but a genius mistake is discovery penicillin on a moldy slice of bread. An idiots mistake ends in a firing squad.

i feel for those two men, but greed drove them to this unfortunate finale, not some archaic law book.

you're the very definition of compassion
:|

feel harder, bro. feel like a real man feels. not a giant douche.
 
Where do you draw the line? Heroin is a fucking insidious drug which only enslaves it's users. I feel more for the poor guy who will spend 12 months for smoking a spliff in Bali than I do two drug traffickers who were smuggling 13 kilos of heroin.
 
were not talking about two kingpins nor masterminds of a major cartel here. the two men being executed were 19 and 23 at the time of offense/apprehension and on their second importation round to indonesia. they were kids with dollar signs in their eyes. you honestly cannot state that you never made silly decisions nor took dangerous risks during those years, involving the law and or illegal substances (whilst fully "aware" of the consequence). at 19 and in your early 20s your logic systems nor maturity has reached the stage of conductive and conclusive adulthood (especially of that that you now possess at 40). they have both served their time in prison, have proven themselves to be fully reformed. im failing to understand how murdering them in the name of indonesian law is going to teach them a greater lesson than the one theyve already lived through?

...kytnism...:|
 
They were adults. It is easy to reform when you are facing the barrel of a rifle for 10 years. 19 is old enough to be given a gun and sent into to battle. Your vote is worth just as much as any 40 year old. Most 15 years olds would know that there are two things that can happen when you try and smuggle drugs through Indonesia, 1. You pull it off and turn 13kg into $8million or 2. You get caught and are put to death. This hasn't changed for 50 years. They are not meant to be taught anything, they are being punished.

They might not be millionaire cartel drug lords, but only because they were caught. And because they were foolish.

I'm with Dave Chapelle when it comes to 19 yr olds being idiots.....

 
I also agree with this -

Tony Trimingham: Why the worst thing that could happen to Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran is their execution

WHEN Damien Trimingham was 22 years old, he died from a heroin overdose.
He wasn’t a long-term heroin user, nor was he aimless, unintelligent, unpopular, unambitious, or any other stereotype you might associate with drug users.

“When Damien got into heroin and drugs we were living on Sydney’s North Shore,” explains his father, Tony. “He went to Chatswood High School, he was a high achiever, and an excellent sports person — he played football, went to state athletics, was house captain, a prefect, and generally very well regarded. He was the sort of person you’d expect to do really well in life. He was reasonably settled, he had a girlfriend, lots of friends, and it was the last thing I ever expected. When he told me I got the shock of my life.”

Mr Trimingham reacted “as a lot of fathers do” by trying to fix the situation. He sent Damien to be with his sister on the Blue Mountains “for a cold turkey detox.”
“The next 12 months were very up and down, but he got a new girlfriend, he started bushwalking … we didn’t realise that we hadn’t solved it all, it’s a very complicated issue. At some moments it was very positive but he had very black moments, and he started drinking a lot.

“The day he died, he went shopping with his girlfriend in the morning, and they’d called in at the local pub on their way home. They had an argument, she left, he started drinking, he got some money out of the ATM, he caught the train into Taylor Square, he shot up at 10.15pm. It was what they call the trifecta — he hadn’t been using so his tolerance had dropped, he’d been drinking, and he went to an isolated place. A security guard on patrol saw Damien sitting there and had to call for another guard as per their protocol, by which time he had slumped forward and it was already too late.”

With such a traumatic story, you could understand Mr Trimingham being unsympathetic towards the fate of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, two members of the Bali 9 who could face execution this week. They were arrested in Bali on April 17 2005 for attempting to smuggle heroin out of Indonesia, and have been sentenced to death by firing squad. Their final presidential clemency plea was rejected last week.

But Mr Trimingham is far from being in agreement with their execution — in fact, he believes the two men are genuinely remorseful, and that rather than being put to death, they could be rehabilitated back into the community, and used to warn people of the dangers of drugs in every capacity.

“When I heard about the Bali 9 all those years ago, I was very distressed that they’d done it, but I could see that in a way they were just like my son — they were stupid, they were young, they were doing something they hadn’t thought about too much,” he explains.
“One of my first reactions after Damien died was to get angry and want to ‘get’ the drug dealers, but I quickly realised that venting my anger on them was the wrong area. I want to change the system and the attitude to drugs, I’d rather focus on education.

“I don’t think [Chan and Sukumaran] should get away scott free, but they aren’t. They’ve already served their time. I would have been anti-death penalty even if these men hadn’t been remorseful, but it’s been quite a number of years now, they’ve matured, they have a different attitude to life. With maturity things change, we see that with drug users themselves — with time, they get different priorities. I’ve built up a friendship with Lee and Christine Rush, the parents of Scott Rush, over the years, I’ve done some presentations for them at their drug awareness events, why can’t we use them to do the same?

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...-their-execution/story-fnq2o7dd-1227197727575
 
A better opinion would be a mother or father whose daughter will die from an overdose tomorrow.
overdose is more likely when you fuckup the supply lines. not enough dope in the trunk so you mix some fent in and junkies drop like flies.

if you wanted to prevent overdoses, you would legalize drugs, and have their sale controlled and regulated for purity and invest in education.
 
Bali Nine: Indonesian executions ‘based on dodgy data’

THE fate of the Bali Nine duo hinges on “questionable and vague” figures being used to justify their execution, academics claim.

President Joko Widodo is refusing to show mercy to death row drug convicts Myuran Sukumaran, Andrew Chan and about 60 other drug offenders in Indonesia, believing their executions will shock the country out of its “drug emergency”.

Mr Joko has been quoting Indonesia’s National Narcotics Board, which he says finds up to 50 citizens die of drug-related deaths each day.

However the figure is actually a projection, based on years-old BNN and University of Indonesia Centre for Health Research studies.

The revelation comes after Chan and Sukumaran wrote a heartbreaking open letter to the Indonesian Government begging for the chance to continue helping the community.

As the president continues to use the outdated numbers to justify executions, concerned academics are raising their concern.

Even the organisation that did the research has admitted it was only intended to give “a general description of what’s going on”.

An analysis by Claudia Stoicescu, PhD candidate at University of Oxford, finds “questionable methods and vague measures”.

Looking at the “50 deaths per day” claim alone, she says the researchers surveyed 2143 people on how many of their friends had died because of drugs in the past year.

The authors then applied the median number of friends who died (three) to their 2008 estimate of drug addicts, arriving at a figure of 14,894.

Divided by 365 days, this amounted to 41 people dying because of drug use every day.

Not only is this inaccurate, says Ms Stoicescu, but it’s unclear what “died because of drugs” even means.

Ferdinand P Siagian, from the University of Indonesia Centre for Health Research, defended the methodology, telling AAP: “We have followed all scientific principles and statistical requirements.”

He said “died because of drugs” was open to the respondent’s interpretation, but usually meant drug overdoses and HIV/AIDS. Mr Siagian acknowledged the limitations of the research, which was conducted in 17 of 33 provinces.

He said it was only ever intended to take a snapshot of drug use.

“I know it might not represent the whole of Indonesia 100 per cent, but at least with the methodology we used, we get the picture,” he said.

“At least it gives a general description of what’s going on. “We could make more a comprehensive survey, but that would cost a lot more. I think it’s quite representative of the bigger picture.”

Ms Stoicescu says policy decisions should be based on solid evidence, and in this case, it’s a matter of life and death.

“No numbers on drug use are strong enough to support punitive policies including executions,” she told AAP.

“At the policy level, punitive drug laws including the death penalty have been proven ineffective in deterring drug trafficking, and have no deterring effect when it comes to drug use.”

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/b...ed-on-dodgy-data/story-fnh81fz8-1227209862633
 
overdose is more likely when you fuckup the supply lines. not enough dope in the trunk so you mix some fent in and junkies drop like flies.

if you wanted to prevent overdoses, you would legalize drugs, and have their sale controlled and regulated for purity and invest in education.
Except tolerance means very few addicts can stick to a maintenance dose. Plus poly drug use is a far more likely reason for overdose than a hot shot and junkies gonna alcoholic

Go look around the dark side to see the number of suicidal blue lighters because they are trapped by their addiction
 
That isnt the case for methadone though is it? Addicts can stay on a set dose of that cant they?
 
Except tolerance means very few addicts can stick to a maintenance dose. Plus poly drug use is a far more likely reason for overdose than a hot shot and junkies gonna alcoholic

Go look around the dark side to see the number of suicidal blue lighters because they are trapped by their addiction

Again, stable and constant supply help insure constancy in the product.

Tolerance doesn't build then you get normal gear and OD, tolerance is merely an issue with variable product.

People OD because they are not accustomed to good product and they buy a new package and smoke their own dumb ass because they didn't taste test.

Poly drug use is an entirely separate issue, and would be properly address by distribution and education, ie your "pharmacist" says, "hey your getting xanax, heroin and a gallon of rum, don't be a tard"....

Giving people access to good drugs is about freeing them from their addiction. Free them from the financial pressure of being a junkie, free them from the ignorance with education programs, free them from the life of crime that ruins their lives and strains the lives of those around them. Freedom from prohibition is the best path to fixing our drug problem.
 
Education? How's that working out for a generation or three?

There has been a constant steady supply of opiates for decades thanks to liberal doctor shopping and that sure as hell hasn't halted overdoses

There is more than just the financial yoke of drug addiction. Ask Phillip Seymour Hoffman
 
Education? How's that working out for a generation or three?
insite has proven that with safe injection sites in vancouver support works build a rapport with the junkies and are able to help educate them, and improve their lives.

im not talking about educating kids on say no to drugs, i am talking about educating active users on harm reduction.
 
I'm not saying injecting sites are not a great health initiative but overall handing out heroin is not going to solve a lot of junkies problems. It's not a drug that people tend to chip with for very long before descending into an abbyss. And you can't say that only current junkies are going to be the only ones attracted to its supply.

Most "functioning" addicts I know are fucking useless to be around. Sure they have their sweet spot where they are happy and productive , but a fucking nightmare either side of this.
 
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