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Bali Bomb Blast

Maybe...
I find it pretty unlikely though. If there had been a serious warning of a threat, I can't see why the Government wouldn't warn its citizens, at least in this age of constant litigation.
The Americans have been jumpy as all hell in this post September 11 era, just look at them shutting down a major airport for someone walking up an escalator the wrong way. It's a pretty safe bet that ASIO is getting warnings and "possible threats" for a dime a dozen.
If the Government comes out and "warns it citizens" to a threat that might or might not exist (I say this because look at how unsure they still are about the danger in the region), especially one in a tourism intensive location like Bali they would be having every man and their dog accusing them of setting out to "ruin the Indonesian economy."
But on the other issue I tend to agree with Supaspeed, it's pretty silly and irresponsible to blame the Government in my opinion. Pretty naive too.
I haven't even dared to look at the "Opinion" page of the herald yet, I think I'll need a nice cup of tea before I venture that.
 
Australians > Balinese?
I don't think so.
Which of you have also mourned the loss of Balinese lives? Who is going to airlift them to a top line hospital?
A sad day for all humanity, not just australians.
 
Also gotta say, this probally isn't about Australia's comments/stance about Iraq. More like what happened in East Timor.
 
I think what has upset me most - and correct me if im wrong - the americans were aware there was a threat attack on westerners in Indonesia a month ago - it is supposedly said Americans were warned not to travel to island nations for a while. Why not inform us?
Not true
The Australian government was given adequate information, it was just that they didnt heed the warning
The american embassy was evacuated for a period of time before the bombing and us officials flown out, thats how seriously they took the threat (and who could blame them)
The australian government however ruled out the warning and luttle if any action seemed to take place on their behalf
Interesting stuff
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I'm watching British news right now (BBC news 24). The British news are really doing good reporting. Yesterday they were pointing out that if the numbers are as they now appear the attack in Bali was more severe to Australia than the 9/11 attacks were on the USA (much smaller population in Oz). The story is still getting the first 10 minutes of the hour every hour. Have been lots of interviews with Australian survivors and reports from Oz about how people there are reacting.
Harry
 
The Australian government was given adequate information, it was just that they didnt heed the warning
The american embassy was evacuated for a period of time before the bombing and us officials flown out, thats how seriously they took the threat (and who could blame them)
The australian government however ruled out the warning and luttle if any action seemed to take place on their behalf
Interesting stuff
Very interesting stuff…Maybe I’ll need to retract my comment above? :)
[ 16 October 2002: Message edited by: Mr.Happ-E ]
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Your comment is valid Mr_HappE, the american government have been jumpy as hell security wise
But seriously, can you blame them?
I do feel there was a lack of action from what i have read and heard on behalf of the australian government
But then i woul dimagine it would be very hard to pin point the time and place of such an attack, that is sor tof the reason terrorism works, it is seemingly random, and the results are devestating
This discussion could go on forever as all the facts will never be revealed
 
Well the shock has nearly worn off and the tales of survival and of "mateship" and of "pulling through" are bubbling to the surface of people's awareness.
A pat on the back for the Medics who were holidaying in Bali at the time who helped take control and assist in the triage of patients.
A pat on the back for the numerous un-named Aussies and Balianese who, despite fear, assisted in the removal and despatch of the injured to the hospital.
A pat on the back to those who spent their time with the dying to offer support and love.
A pat on the back for the rapid response of the Airforce in the evac.
A pat on the back to everyone involved, directly or indirectly, affected or non-affected to help people in their hour of need.
In all it's craziness, in all it's shame, in all it's soul destroying, in all it's sadness. I hope that the love of humanity and of each other wells up in the hearts of us all and makes us reach down deep to the caring compassion that resonates in all of us and increases the love and understanding we have with each other.
May the butterflys of peace dance around all.
I know......it's happening to me!!!!!!!!
Mmmmmm.....maybe getting a bit deep here kiddies
 
Nezo - the Sari Club and Paddy Club are off limits to locals.
There would have been much fewer Balinese people hurt and killed than Australians.
But i'm sure all our thoughts are with everyone, Balinese, British, German, Japanese, Italians, Swedes etc who were all just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
Originally posted by Raving Loony:
It's all just so very sad, but please keep race/religon/politics out of it.
agreed this is sad, but if this WAS a terrorist attack (conspiracy theorists hold your tongues for the sake of the argument) it was most likely (although admittedly not absolutely positively) Islamic fundamentalists. If so, it would be impossible to keep race/religion/politics out of the argument, cos those are precisely the three things that motivated the attack.
the world is in a pretty nasty situation at the moment. ..
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does anyone else feel a lot more affected by this, than by september 11?
I remember after hearing about september 11 I was surprised that I didn't feel grief or sadness (well of course a little, just not as I would have expected myself to) It was almost as if most of the world got a little peverse satisfaction from witnessing the world's most powerful nation getting stabbed in the guts.
However in the case of the people who have died in Bali, I have been thinking about it non stop since it happened. Its a very VERY sad affair.
And also, anyone who has been to Bali will surely agree with me, the poor Balinese people... they don't deserve something like this. They are some of the kindest people in the world, and an event such as this is likely to cripple their economy.
Its all very sad...
 
It is awful, I have just heard from the last of my friends who were over there, and thank god they are all OK. My best friend only had minor injuries, but said the worst was wading through broken glass and walking past mutilated bodies, not knowing how to help. He said he can't get the images out of his head, and doesn't know when he will be able to.
He is now back, and on the topic of feeling for the balinese peoples, he is already trying to organise a trip over there in a couple of months. I encourage as many of you to visit Bali a few months down the track, every little tourist dollar will help get them back on their feet.
These ppl were as innocent as the aussies over there, and it won't be just the impact on 30 odd families, it will be their whole country going down the toilet. I just hope as many BL's as possible visit in the next year, even an organised BL trip could be in order down the track?
My condolances to the ppl who have lost family and friends, please don't think I am forgetting them.
 
Well it was apparently C4 plastic explosive. I'm no bomb expert but I think that would explain how much devestation there was.
I heard the same. I was in the company of a bunch of Uni friends last night when a couple of points were brought up I found interesting.
Basically, the discussion led to 'where's the Indonesian military on all this?' -
C4's difficult to acquire.. Whether a Terrorist or not, it's still a process to actually get hold of plastique, seeing you can't exactly purchase it at your local arms dealer, and lifting it from the only organisations who do have it (i.e. military etc.) wouldn't be the easiest thing to do.
Another P.O.I.- Megawati ~insert indonesian presidents last name here~ was also warned but refused to take action. Loosely explained (and similarly remembered), the support she requires to maintain her presidency rests upon a bunch of members who have close links to the indonesian army, and have in the past been affiliated with movements like Militant Islam (note: militant islam has nothing to do with the islamic religion or population as a whole; It's an aggressive arm of extremists similar to al-queda bearing that name)..
These are all just observations, without much bearing - just some loosely connected stuff that got me thinking.
We can all say Terrorist, and by definition, the people responsible are. However, being members of the public who are kept in the dark about these world issues, we have no idea who's controlling and ordering what behind the scenes. We may well be laying blame to a pre-determined source when all we have is what T.V. and Media Corp. tell us.
Seeing all the governments of first world countries 'standing up' against 'evil' with their flowery cape of political correctness flapping in the wind isn't exactly encouraging. The problem is, this type of tragic, horrifying shit is still being planned, and will continue to go on for a very long time,no matter how many bombs we drop on whoever we think is responsible.
What really gets to me is that until we can evolve above all this (haha 8) ), we're absolutely fucking powerless to do anything about it. I'm living with the sense that we're the masses that the world powers are playing with. It feels futile to argue and lay blame and harbour resentment because we're next, and we don't know when, where or who it's going to come from.
All I want to do is live my life from day to day happily oblivious to this shit and dreaming it's not actually happening; go to a rave and take a shred of unparalled joy before we head back to the miserable working week. But count on Talkback morning radio to show me just how fucked up things are when the interviewee is a guy from my suburb telling all of Australia that his religion is more important 'than this fucked up country'; being the first to laugh when the inevitable terrorist bomb goes off in Sydney's CBD.
I personally feel we've come to the point where our efforts have produced so little results that the best we can do is feel sorry for the people involved and then have an argument that will end in another glorious display of colourful words. Then I'll forget about it, and move on to answering a debate in T&A on 'what feminism means to me.'
Repeat ad nauseam.
I'm not even sure if I have a point to all this. Maybe this sort of thing just highlights just how much of a community we don't have because it takes a tragedy like this to bring us together. What's it going to be like in 20 years time?
[/rant]
[Zoloft].................?
*sigh*
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...But if it is? Then maybe we should all examine our position holding onto the USA's coatails when it comes to International Affairs. Remember that if the USA put 1/10th of what it spends on the military each year into feeding the hungry across the world, starvation would be eradicated. World policeman maybe, but its a world policeman patrolling a razor wire fence of economic apartheid.
These terrorists don't want to feed the starving. They want an Islamic state. Think before you write.
All you bleeding heart hippies are the same - blaming the Americans or even ourselves for these acts.
My condolences to those injured or killed in this horrible situation.
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C4's difficult to acquire.. Whether a Terrorist or not, it's still a process to actually get hold of plastique, seeing you can't exactly purchase it at your local arms dealer, and lifting it from the only organisations who do have it (i.e. military etc.) wouldn't be the easiest thing to do.
Another P.O.I.- Megawati ~insert indonesian presidents last name here~ was also warned but refused to take action. Loosely explained (and similarly remembered), the support she requires to maintain her presidency rests upon a bunch of members who have close links to the indonesian army
Politics in Indonesia is a complete mess of opposing interests. The military (TNI) actually controls a guaranteed share of seats within the parliament in Jakarta, esuring that the TNI functions not only as an Army, but a powerful political interest as well. The TNI views its role as fulfilling "Dwi Fungsi" or dual function, meaning that it defends not only against external state threats, but internal ones (dissidents, percieved threats to stability). This they view as justifying their political control, and ruthless policing and frequently repression of those who pose opposition.
President Habbibie was the first civillian (previous leaders have all had backgrounds in the TNI) Indonesian president, who widely was seen as barely managing to rein in and balance TNI control, as evidence of his failure to stop atrocities within East Timor after the independance vote attests. It is sad fact that Megawati Sukarno-Putri too must tread carefully and coddle to TNI policy frequently...
What does this prove about the Bali bombing, well nothing in itself, but the TNI is a pretty corrupt and fucked up institution that is really not all that accountable. If rogue elements are choosing to engage in terrorism in order to enhance their status and destabilise the leadership, I doubt I would be surprised.
[ 17 October 2002: Message edited by: -Thoth ]
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Anyone who is interested in helping out the victims of the bombing should consider donating blood (at least, those whos' blood is clean enough to give ;) ). Apparently, a lot of plasma will be needed in the coming weeks as the burns victims start their recovery. It isn't very painful, honest! See Australian Red Cross Blood Service for info on mobile blood banks, and whether you are a suitable candidate.
 
IHT - Other Comment Vicky Woods The Daily Telegraph Thursday, October 17, 2002
Go to Bali! Maybe not next week, obviously, not while the poor little island is struggling to cope with its Ground Zero aftermath - but go, go. Keep the long-haul airlines flying, keep the tourist dollars flowing, keep those paradise hotels open. I feel apostolic about this. We don't want to sound like a lotus-eating hedonist taking on Al Qaeda with a sharpened credit card, but I'm overwhelmed by the same kind of urgency that flooded through me after Sept. 11. As a free citizen of the world, the one thing I can do about vicious stateless terrorism is not let the bastards win. - Vicki Woods, commenting in The Daily Telegraph (London)
notice different spellings of vicky. anyway cherub i will be off to indonesia next week to support the economy and do my bit to fight terrorism.
 
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