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Bad reaction to (legal) Matrix party pills?

whoremoaning said:
MCat originally (and still) refers to Methcathinone a drug in itself, whilst 4-MMC (or MMCat) refers to 4-MethylMethcathinone/Mephedrone, a different drug.

Using MCat as a slang for Mephedrone creates confusion, is inaccurate and doesn't help us reduce harm.
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Well said.
 
whoremoaning said:
MCat originally (and still) refers to Methcathinone a drug in itself, whilst 4-MMC (or MMCat) refers to 4-MethylMethcathinone/Mephedrone, a different drug.

Using MCat as a slang for Mephedrone creates confusion, is inaccurate and doesn't help us reduce harm.

I agree 14 hours is way too long, I have no idea what was in that pill, sounds like it could be a piperazine with that duration.
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Confusing indeed!

Ok, so the difference is a methyl on the 4th position of the ring.

Building on that though,
Is there a significant difference in the bioavailability or pharmacology though?
I always understood an extra methyl on a periphery of the molecule would have a very small (if even noticeable) effect on the overall action of the compound.

What's the expected difference between the two?
 
I remember reading about some horrible reactions to 4-MMC in the European forums.. foot boils and that kind of thing?

Regarding the comedown, back when I used this drug in the form of the n** d**** from Israel (not sure if I'm allowed to use the name on here) - specifically the 'SC' product - I found it to be quite bad; really bad headache, pretty much a migraine, except it only lasted an hour or so, and taking some nurofen plus fixed it up nicely. Only got this two times out of 8 or so experiences I had however, pretty sure the comedowns were attached to the nights of more heavy usage.
 
From my understanding methcathinone is much closer to methamphetamine or amphetamine sulphate, unlike 4mmc, which is very similar to ecstasy in terms of subjective effects
 
jenkem said:
Regarding the comedown, back when I used this drug in the form of the n** d**** from Israel (not sure if I'm allowed to use the name on here) - specifically the 'SC' product - I found it to be quite bad; really bad headache, pretty much a migraine, except it only lasted an hour or so, and taking some nurofen plus fixed it up nicely. Only got this two times out of 8 or so experiences I had however, pretty sure the comedowns were attached to the nights of more heavy usage.
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My friends and had very similar experiences. The first few times I noticed very little side effects but after a while I would come to expect a headache to follow. It was not like it was due to increase in dose either as I would rarely consume more than 100-200mg in a sitting. It was almost as if my brain recognised it and threw out the warning signs. I don't get comedowns with MDMA so for someone to say there is relatively little comedown with 4mmc is a little bullshit.

I can't even smell that shit now without slightly dry retching but I have never heard anyone with prolonged nausea like the OP described. Mephedrone was banned well before December 09 so unless it is a rogue supply I doubt it was the cause.
 
Is there a significant difference in the bioavailability or pharmacology though
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Substitution at the forth position can change the pharmacology considerably. Check out PiHKAL, available via Erowid. Bioavailability in relation to absorption wouldn't be altered much. In this case the carbonyl O & amine moieties would largely determine how and where it is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract.
 
whoremoaning said:
MCat originally (and still) refers to Methcathinone a drug in itself, whilst 4-MMC (or MMCat) refers to 4-MethylMethcathinone/Mephedrone, a different drug.

Using MCat as a slang for Mephedrone creates confusion, is inaccurate and doesn't help us reduce harm.

I agree 14 hours is way too long, I have no idea what was in that pill, sounds like it could be a piperazine with that duration.
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Thanks for the correction and clarification
 
phase_dancer said:
Substitution at the forth position can change the pharmacology considerably. Check out PiHKAL, available via Erowid. Bioavailability in relation to absorption wouldn't be altered much. In this case the carbonyl O & amine moieties would largely determine how and where it is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract.
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it's on the list of books i want for my birthday ;)

Thanks
 
Changed the title of the thread to stop the possibility of misinforming people.

Bad to hear you had a bad reaction OP. I have many fears about these 'legal' RC's.
 
YES

4mmc - the first time ingested orally - made me spew like no tomorrow

was not my idea of a good time! I mean it got me pretty chopped but my guts wouldn't have a bar of it... mind you I did have an empty stomach :|
 
^ I KNEW IT!

Sorry to hear it though, its sick that I'm glad someone else has seen it go badly?
:S
Just glad I'm not crazy.

I'll definitely be wary of those RC's...

The best quote from her once she'd recovered was "fuck this, I'm never doing Legal drugs again!"
 
hyroller said:
YES

4mmc - the first time ingested orally - made me spew like no tomorrow

was not my idea of a good time! I mean it got me pretty chopped but my guts wouldn't have a bar of it... mind you I did have an empty stomach :|
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4-MMC is nasty on an empty stomach.
 
I find most things are nasty on an empty stomach, even multi-vitamins sometimes :/
 
contrast dismissal said:
The best quote from her once she'd recovered was "fuck this, I'm never doing Legal drugs again!"
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I have vomited from Meph on an empty stomach and have experienced nausea almost every time I have ingested orally.

(Its important to note that almost all drug experiences have this effect on me)


I said that same thing after ingesting legal DMA pills that left me very ill for a good 12 hours.
 
contrast dismissal said:
a few months ago my gf had a horrible reaction to some 'herbal e' pills sold in vacuum sealed packs bearing Matrix logos and code.

We established from user reports that these were filled with 4-MMC...
Can anyone confirm that?
These pills were obtained from a "happy herbs" type of stall at an expo around dec 09
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Late last year Happy High Herbs in Byron had matrix themed / branded capsules - a single green capsule in plastic packaging with matrix movie logos. No ingredients listed, and they had something written like "Novelty toy only - not for consumption" They had only just come in the shop that week. I asked the sales girl if she had tried them, but she hadn't, although she claimed that a girl had bought one two days previously, and then the next morning the girl was back with 3 friends who all wanted to buy them. So I picked one up and tried it on the weekend. It was definately not 4-MMC / Mephedrone / whatever, however it was the strongest legal high I have purchased from HHH - I took it along with a few glasses of wine and had a pretty nice time for about the next 5 hours. Last week I visited HHH and these are no longer available, however the sales girl said that the company making them are now doing the "Neon" caps for HHH. The only negative reaction I had to the matrix cap was that I found it really hard to urinate while I was under the influence, even though I was needing to. I didn't experience any bad comedown afterwards and nothing like nausea / vomiting.

I have also noticed that the Neon caps from HHH don't have a list of ingredients, however their other products do (Empathy, Energy, Cherry Pop, etc). I'm curious now as to what active ingredients are in these matrix and neon products, as they are the strongest legal highs I have tried from HHH.
 
You didn't say whether you sampled the Neon caps. If you or someone you know has, how did you/they compare the Neon caps to Matrix? Similar experience?
 
Yep, I've tried the Neons also, however not with any alcohol this time. I took one cap and went out to see a band (The Church) with a friend (who also was trying Neon for the first time). The effects on one cap were noticeable, however after I had taken the second cap about 2 hours after the first, I was in a decent blissed out and buzzed state for the next 3 hours or so. At the peak it did feel a bit to me like a moderate hit of MDA, a nice blissed fuzzy disassociated headspace, and yes, pretty much the same as I felt with the Matrix cap. My friend was also pleasantly surprised at her experience on 2 caps. We had a nice night ;)
 
^ Cheers for the report roughscale. Seems it might be another case of label changing to avoid detection/confiscation.
 
^^^^ Interesting... I have yet to try and legal/herbal highs, much preferring to stick to my illict chems, however I think I may do some investigating into these... considering the lack of decent goods, and my unwillingness to dip further into my cherished stash. lol
 
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