Babylon the Great Mother of All Harlots & Abominations -- Revelaton 18

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Goddess, I'll have to speak to my parents, both Catholic theologians, about specifics. I'm not well versed enough in biblical scholarship or history to do as good a job as Obyron did.

My criticism is a broad-sweeping one: your theory doesn't take into consideration the text IN CONTEXT. Any piece of writing is directly connected to the time and place and goings-on of the place and people to whom the writer felt connected.

I'm a big believer in the aesthetic philosophy of contextualism -- the notion that pretty much all intended meanings of a piece of art or literature will come clear when enough about the author and the world surrounding him/her are understood. In other words, a work is simply a window into the creator himself, and the forces which shaped him.

Obyron, no need to apologize -- your clear-headed posts are more of what I'd like to read in this forum. You know your history quite well, and are much more qualified than myself to speculate on the context which breathes meaning into a document like the book of Revelations.

I'll try to play my typical role as peacemaker in formulating my final thoughts. I think the book of Revelation CAN hold meaning to modern people, who are tired of being slaves to a system which covertly keeps them in their place and preys upon them financially. As a staunch cheapskate who HATES borrowing money or being in debt like the fucking plague, I can attest that there is much freedom to realize one's dreams and full potential by not falling for schemes which promise free money, easy financing, one-time deals, and other moneylending hokum. I am also a staunch minimalist -- if you don't need it, TRY LIVING WITHOUT IT. The book of Revelation shows that voting with the coins in your pocket is as powerful (if not more) a political tool as voting in the polls. Simply put, don't give people and institutions you don't support power by spending money in their shops. If they have less money coming in, they have less influence flowing out. I met people in China who wouldn't buy a Japanese car -- or even a car built with robots or capital provided by Japan (good luck!) -- if their transportation depended on it. That's exercising real power.

Because in the end, people should be wary of where they spend their money. Academics have long concurred on a fact that ought to be banal, that economics and politics cannot be separated. In other words, the flow of resources (economics), cannot be separated from group behavior (politics). Like any tool, money can be used for good or for evil. The lesson I've learned from this discussion, GoddessLSD-XTC, is not that all uses of money are evil, but that I need to put my money where my mouth and heart are, and be careful NOT to put it where my mouth and heart aren't.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I'm considering breaking off GoddessLSD-XTC's discussion of Revelation off into a separate thread. Any thoughts?

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

What gives the bible any sort of spiritual provenance that the holy books of other religions don't have? The Bible has no more claim to be "true" prophecy than Nostradamus, and surely you don't put faith into that old saw of quacks and charlatans?

Like Thomas Jefferson's bible, I too eliminate the words of "Saint" Paul. The "miracles" of Jesus (if he existed) are metaphors. Jesus certainly never walked on water (it's a mataphor on Faith), healing the sick (it's your "Faith that makes U whole," faith in doctors, medicine, nutrition, science), turning water into wine, or rising from the dead (the Truth or Logos-Logic will rise gain, devils/slanderers crucify/slander the Truth, which is The Way to live-life). Of all the "Holy" books, the Five Gospels (including the Gospel of Thomas and PARTS of the Apocalypse, like Chapters 13 & 18) are The Best, most terse and revolutionary. Jesus-Christ believed in eliminating money!

If you subscribe to the belief that "the mark of the beast" means money because Nero's face was on the coins, then it seems like we agree that Nero was The Beast spoken of in the Apocalypse. Assuming we also agree that Nero has been dead for nearly 2000 years, what's the relevance to today?

Revelance: we still buy & sell with the money of a Beast on/in mind/hand!

Is the first move of the fictional antichrist going to be to shut down offshore banks in the Caymans, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Bahrain, Dubai, etc.?

There are many anti-christs operating today, chief among them is George Bush and the Pharisees of the mega-chruches like Huckabee, Fallwell, the Pope, et.al.

I think it's interesting that Sarkozy just got elected, and already he's a devil on par with Bush and Blair.

I'm in shock about Sarcozy. I remember reading something I disliked about him BEFORE he was elected but forgot about it until he started dating (married) Carla Brunni, one of the Goddesses I worshiped. I then Googled his name and realized what I disliked about him was that he was Jewish: Armageddon, here we come![/quote]

Also you talk about how the symbolism of Apocalypse now means New York City and D.C., but what about the equally prominent theory among armchair eschatologists which says that the European Union is the new Roman Empire?

IMO it's NOT an "equally prominent theory" it ignores the elephant of U.S. Empire, which I consider 10 times more wicked than the EU (yes, I know Europe was better off before the EU as America was before NAFTA.)

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

I'm considering breaking off GoddessLSD-XTC's discussion of Revelation off into a separate thread. Any thoughts?

I don't mind the digression into discussing "Favorite Bible verses." I think we pretty much covered what's good/absurd in the Buy-Bull and doubt there will be very many NEW verses added to this thread.

 

[Fishface]

I'm considering breaking off GoddessLSD-XTC's discussion of Revelation off into a separate thread. Any thoughts?

Any chance of breaking them off onto another forum? 8)

 

[kultron]

Okay, truthfully "GoddessLSD-XTC" you have the most fucked up and stupidest beliefs I've ever heard from anyone, ever. Your notions of history and religion are illogical, confused, backward and plain simple. Like seriously, you remind me of the kid in 9th grade who watched all the conspiracy theory movies all the time and always wore black clothes and smelled funny. I suggest visiting a psychiatrist.

 

[B9]

^
Aye lifes rich tapestry eh ?

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

Okay, truthfully "GoddessLSD-XTC" you have the most fucked up and stupidest beliefs I've ever heard from anyone, ever. Your notions of history and religion are illogical, confused, backward and plain simple. Like seriously, you remind me of the kid in 9th grade who watched all the conspiracy theory movies all the time and always wore black clothes and smelled funny. I suggest visiting a psychiatrist.

Like I wrote to MDAO, specifics on where I'm wrong, confused, backward (I was born breech), stupid, fucked up. The Pharisees said the same slanderous (devilish/satanic) things about Jesus. It's easy for U to call me names but difficult, if not impossible to show any fallacy with my thinking. You added NOTHING constructive with your blasphemous comment!

 

[Obyron]

I'm all for splitting this off into a separate thread.

Like Thomas Jefferson's bible, I too eliminate the words of "Saint" Paul. The "miracles" of Jesus (if he existed) are metaphors. Jesus certainly never walked on water (it's a mataphor on Faith), healing the sick (it's your "Faith that makes U whole," faith in doctors, medicine, nutrition, science), turning water into wine, or rising from the dead (the Truth or Logos-Logic will rise gain, devils/slanderers crucify/slander the Truth, which is The Way to live-life). Of all the "Holy" books, the Five Gospels (including the Gospel of Thomas and PARTS of the Apocalypse, like Chapters 13 & 18) are The Best, most terse and revolutionary. Jesus-Christ believed in eliminating money!

TJ didn't just excise the books of St. Paul and the miracles of Jesus. He threw out the entire Old Testament, and all of the New Testament except selected verses from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John which he rearranged in chronological order to tell the story of the life of Jesus the man and his philosophy of peace. Any references to virgin birth, angels, the trinity, divinity, resurrection from the dead, the messiah, etc., are completely cut.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what I can even say about this paragraph. You predict that "The Truth" will rise again, but you can obviously give no evidence of such a thing, biblical or otherwise (since we seem to agree that if Jesus existed, he was just a man). You pick and choose parts of the bible that agree with your odd idea and throw out the rest. Are you an instrument of prophecy or something?

Revelance: we still buy & sell with the money of a Beast on/in mind/hand!

I'm not sure if you're just being difficult, or if this is some kind of political statement against the Federal Reserve Bank. Hundreds of years of economic theory have borne out the idea of central banking. I'm assuming that by "the money of a Beast" you are calling America or the American government The Beast? I agree the American government does some deplorable things, but then so does all government. If you have a political or philosophical grievance with the US government why do you need to pretty it up with the language of the Apocalypse, when you don't even seem to particularly believe in the bible? Do you like the feeling that this adds weight to your argument?

There are many anti-christs operating today, chief among them is George Bush and the Pharisees of the mega-chruches like Huckabee, Fallwell, the Pope, et.al.

You seem to be using the definition of "pharisee" that means "a self-righteous hypocrite," in which case I agree with you. I find it hard to believe that Falwell is still an "anti-christ operating today" since he's been dead for almost a year now! (And allow me to paraphrase a quote from Christopher Hitchens: "Jerry Falwell was so full of shit that if you gave him an enema you could bury what's left in a matchbox.") I find use of the word "anti-christ" to be disingenuous when you don't even seem to believe in the rest of the bible, and essentially use it with some muckraking definition that only you are quite aware of.

I'm in shock about Sarcozy. I remember reading something I disliked about him BEFORE he was elected but forgot about it until he started dating (married) Carla Brunni, one of the Goddesses I worshiped. I then Googled his name and realized what I disliked about him was that he was Jewish: Armageddon, here we come!

Yeah, Sarkozy's mother is/was Jewish. So what? Do you even realize how closed-minded and, frankly, idiotic this makes you sound?

IMO it's NOT an "equally prominent theory" it ignores the elephant of U.S. Empire, which I consider 10 times more wicked than the EU (yes, I know Europe was better off before the EU as America was before NAFTA.)

I think both theories are bullshit. I was just pointing out that there are other crackpots who disagree with you. Part of me has to laugh at how racist and bigoted these Apocalyptic scenarios are though. Apparently countries like China and Sudan and Indonesia don't matter, and they should patiently wait their turn until the western, white Anglo-Saxon anti-christ is ready to destroy the world.

Oh, but wait, Sarkozy's mother was Jewish. I guess I'll have to break out a copy of The Laws For The Protection of German Blood and Honor to figure out just how much "Jewishness" that imparts on him.

It has become immensely obvious to me that this isn't a discussion of Revelations at all, or even the bible, but rather a vain exposition about LSD/XTC's personal apocalyptic scenario, which, for whatever reason, she couches in vocabulary borrowed from Christian eschatology.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

The Most Vile Chapter(s) in the Old Testament

Judges, Chapter 19​

22
While they were enjoying themselves, the men of the city, who were corrupt, surrounded the house and beat on the door. They said to the old man whose house it was, "Bring out your guest, that we may abuse him."
23
The owner of the house went out to them and said, "No, my brothers; do not be so wicked. Since this man is my guest, do not commit this crime.
24
Rather let me bring out my maiden daughter or his concubine. Ravish them, or do whatever you want with them; but against the man you must not commit this wanton crime."
25
When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go.
26
Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning.
27
When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold.
28
He said to her, "Come, let us go"; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an ass and started out again for home.
29
On reaching home, he took a knife to the body of his concubine, cut her into twelve pieces, and sent them throughout the territory of Israel.
30
Everyone who saw this said, "Nothing like this has been done or seen from the day the Israelites came up from the land of Egypt to this day. Take note of it, and state what you propose to do."

What they proposed to do in the concluding chapters of Judges was to kill all the women & men of Gibeah (saving the virgins) and then told the Benjamites:

JUDGES 21:21 "When you see the girls of Shiloh come out to do their dancing, leave the vineyards and each of you seize one of the girls of Shiloh for a wife, and go to the land of Benjamin. . . .

The conclusion of Judges or excuse for the Benjamite's behaviour is:

25
In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what he thought best.

The book Samuel is pretty good here's what God had to say when Israel asked for a King:

6 But when they said, "Give us a king to lead us," this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD.

7 And the LORD told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king.

8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you.

9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do."

10 Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king.

11 He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots.

12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.

13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers.

14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants.

15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants.

16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use.

17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves.

18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day."

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us.

20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles."

21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the LORD. 22 The LORD answered, "Listen to them and give them a king."

I.e., the King will make you all slaves.

The solution is to eliminate money & law.

Jeremiah 31

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

In re eliminating money see, Isaiah 55:

1 "Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.

And the words and teachings of Jesus Christ I quoted above. Remember, the first thing he did upon entering Jerusalem was to upset the moneychangers.

Babylon is falling. Just heard on the news today that the stock market tanked in Europe and the Far East. There's a passage in Revelations where it talks of the HIGH prices for wheat. That's exactly what we have today. It's just a coincidence that Babylon has risen again. I don't believe in "prophecy" or fortune telling.

Ezekiel 7

The End Has Come

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, this is what the Sovereign LORD says to the land of Israel: The end! The end has come upon the four corners of the land. 3 The end is now upon you and I will unleash my anger against you. I will judge you according to your conduct and repay you for all your detestable practices. 4 I will not look on you with pity or spare you; I will surely repay you for your conduct and the detestable practices among you. Then you will know that I am the LORD.

5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Disaster! An unheard-of [a] disaster is coming. 6 The end has come! The end has come! It has roused itself against you. It has come! 7 Doom has come upon you—you who dwell in the land. The time has come, the day is near; there is panic, not joy, upon the mountains. 8 I am about to pour out my wrath on you and spend my anger against you; I will judge you according to your conduct and repay you for all your detestable practices. 9 I will not look on you with pity or spare you; I will repay you in accordance with your conduct and the detestable practices among you. Then you will know that it is I the LORD who strikes the blow.

10 "The day is here! It has come! Doom has burst forth, the rod has budded, arrogance has blossomed! 11 Violence has grown into a rod to punish wickedness; none of the people will be left, none of that crowd—no wealth, nothing of value. 12 The time has come, the day has arrived. Let not the buyer rejoice nor the seller grieve, for wrath is upon the whole crowd. 13 The seller will not recover the land he has sold as long as both of them live, for the vision concerning the whole crowd will not be reversed. Because of their sins, not one of them will preserve his life. 14 Though they blow the trumpet and get everything ready, no one will go into battle, for my wrath is upon the whole crowd.

15 "Outside is the sword, inside are plague and famine; those in the country will die by the sword, and those in the city will be devoured by famine and plague. 16 All who survive and escape will be in the mountains, moaning like doves of the valleys, each because of his sins. 17 Every hand will go limp, and every knee will become as weak as water. 18 They will put on sackcloth and be clothed with terror. Their faces will be covered with shame and their heads will be shaved. 19 They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be an unclean thing. Their silver and gold will not be able to save them in the day of the LORD's wrath. They will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it, for it has made them stumble into sin. 20 They were proud of their beautiful jewelry and used it to make their detestable idols and vile images. Therefore I will turn these into an unclean thing for them. 21 I will hand it all over as plunder to foreigners and as loot to the wicked of the earth, and they will defile it. 22 I will turn my face away from them, and they will desecrate my treasured place; robbers will enter it and desecrate it.

23 "Prepare chains, because the land is full of bloodshed and the city is full of violence. 24 I will bring the most wicked of the nations to take possession of their houses; I will put an end to the pride of the mighty, and their sanctuaries will be desecrated. 25 When terror comes, they will seek peace, but there will be none. 26 Calamity upon calamity will come, and rumor upon rumor. They will try to get a vision from the prophet; the teaching of the law by the priest will be lost, as will the counsel of the elders. 27 The king will mourn, the prince will be clothed with despair, and the hands of the people of the land will tremble. I will deal with them according to their conduct, and by their own standards I will judge them. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

"Money is the stumblingblock of their iniquity!" -- Ezekiel 7:19

These's your sermon or Bible study 4 the day. Call it BS if you will but I really can't see how this world can go on like this with overpopulation and Peak Oil.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

You predict that "The Truth" will rise again, but you can obviously give no evidence of such a thing.

The Truth is The Way to live-life, which is to eliminate money and treasure Logos, logic.

I'm assuming that by "the money of a Beast" you are calling America or the American government The Beast?

Money is The Beast. The word mistranslated as "mark" [of the beast], actually means MONEY, hence, "No one buys or sells without the MONEY of the beast on/in mind/hand."

If you have a political or philosophical grievance with the US government why do you need to pretty it up with the language of the Apocalypse, when you don't even seem to particularly believe in the bible? Do you like the feeling that this adds weight to your argument?

I bring it up because soooo many politicians (Pharisees, hypocrites) don't understand the Bible. There is some Wisdom there. Jesus and all the prophets had trouble with the religious, "stiff-necked" hypocrites of the day.

I find use of the word "anti-christ" to be disingenuous when you don't even seem to believe in the rest of the bible, and essentially use it with some muckraking definition that only you are quite aware of.

Think logically here: If Jesus-Christ is the Logos (logic) then that which is NOT logical is anti-Christ.

Yeah, Sarkozy's mother is/was Jewish. So what? Do you even realize how closed-minded and, frankly, idiotic this makes you sound?

So what?! Are you kidding? If he's Jewish (or a fundamentalist like Huckabee or Bush) he'll support the state of Israel. Only a Messiah can establish Israel. Israel can only be established without bullets, barbed wire and bullshit, worldwide, without money and laws. There is a sect of Orthodox Jews who are against the state of Israel who believe this too. They attended the Holocaust "Denial" conference in Iran.

 

[Obyron]

The Truth is The Way to live-life, which is to eliminate money and treasure Logos, logic.

Money is The Beast

politicians (Pharisees, hypocrites)

If Jesus-Christ is the Logos (logic) then that which is NOT logical is anti-Christ.

You've spared me a long reply by making my entire point for me. Your theory relies on redefining words with vocabulary from Revelations, even though your theory is not overtly (or even recognizably) Christian. If you think "The Truth" means getting rid of money then so be it, but I'd ask you to exercise some of the logic you treasure so much.

If "Mark" means "Money" then money cannot be the Beast, because the phrase claims that the mark is OF the Beast. How can it mean "Money of The Money?" You agreed with me in an earlier post that The Beast meant Nero, but it cannot be in any way argued that we trade using the Money of Nero.

It is annoying that the word "pharisees" has come to mean anything more in the modern context than "Ancient Jewish leaders" because it invites bad metaphors with a pseudo-religious connotation. Yes, politicians are hypocritical and self-righteous. That has very little to do with the bible.

Finally, redefining "Jesus Christ" to mean "logic" is a questionable bit of reasoning, especially if you are then going to redefine "antichrist" to mean "illogical." I could just as easily claim that "Jesus Christ" means "chicken salad sandwich," and claim that anyone who eats roast beef is eating the antichrist. Strictly speaking, the conclusion follows logically given the premise, but that doesn't make the premise make any sense. To use the vocabulary of formal Logic, your argument is strong but not cogent. Put another way: I agree with you that IF Jesus Christ were to mean "Logic" then "antichrist" could be said to mean "illogical," but I don't at all agree with you that Jesus Christ means Logic.

If he's Jewish (or a fundamentalist like Huckabee or Bush) he'll support the state of Israel. [...] There is a sect of Orthodox Jews who are against the state of Israel

Do I even need to reply to this?

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

Your theory relies on redefining words with vocabulary from Revelations, even though your theory is not overtly (or even recognizably) Christian.

Not "redefining" words but correctly translating them.

If you think "The Truth" means getting rid of money then so be it, but I'd ask you to exercise some of the logic you treasure so much.

I ate out of garbage cans and nothing but corn & soybeans with salt and vitamin C. The time will come when, as Jesus said, "Money will bcome a thing of the past." (Luke 16)

If "Mark" means "Money" then money cannot be the Beast, because the phrase claims that the mark is OF the Beast. How can it mean "Money of The Money?" You agreed with me in an earlier post that The Beast meant Nero, but it cannot be in any way argued that we trade using the Money of Nero.

Jesis said, "whose pic is on the $$$." They answered, "Caesar." So Jesus said, "render unto Caesar." I.e., the money is not of god but of Caesar. Nero was the Beast, his pic was on the money at the time Revelation was written. It's still revelant today 'cause U$A is Babylon, Bush (or any President who loves money and doesn't seek to abolish it) is Caesar. Babylon is falling, read the newspaper, watch the news, visit my website!

It is annoying that the word "pharisees" has come to mean anything more in the modern context than "Ancient Jewish leaders" because it invites bad metaphors with a pseudo-religious connotation. Yes, politicians are hypocritical and self-righteous. That has very little to do with the bible.

If the politician, who considers themself a Christian or preacher does not know the truth, they are either pharisees, blind to the signs of the times, deaf to the truth or naive, ignorant.

Finally, redefining "Jesus Christ" to mean "logic" is a questionable bit of reasoning, especially if you are then going to redefine "antichrist" to mean "illogical."

I didn't "redefine Jesus Christ" to mean "logic". I correctly translated the Greek word Logos. "In the beginning was the Logos." -- John 1:1. Logos = Logic, reasoning.

Do you think the Jews are God's "chosen" people and that the establishment of Israel is biblical prophecy revealing the end times? Bush and a lot of stupid goyum "Christians" believe this.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

Separate thread granted.

"Just as the Jews, after the destruction of the Second Temple, organized an economic boycott of thier colonizer, so should all of us today be wary of who we're saying yes to with our money."

There now. Do I get it?

There's no possible way the author of Revelations could have seen into the future and predicted the economic imperialism you see in the world today, so he was obviously not writing about it. However, he was doubtless wise to the ways of the world, and touched upon a timeless truth which still holds true today: when you trade with someone, ON THEIR TERMS, you empower and enable them. Therefore, one of the best ways to disempower someone you don't support is to refuse to trade with them.

Money is simply a tool. It's a necessary tool for survival in today's world, unless you're a subsistence farmer or fisherman who barters, in which case you're probably barely surviving. However, it pays to be picky about 1) where you get your money, 2) how much emphasis you place on obtaining money (all things in moderation), and 3) where you spend your money. Be reckless about any of these three at your own peril, lest you bring about your own demise without even realizing it, and take some innocent people down with you.

P.S. Obyron, I basically agree with you about Jesus. To me, he was clearly a Bodhisattva. When Christians say 'Christ will come again', I don't interpret that to mean Jesus is returning to earth in the flesh. I see that as meaning that Jesus lives on in the people who uphold his principles, and that just as there were many before him, there will be many Anointed Ones after him as well, who carry the same beautiful message.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

Money is simply a tool. It's a necessary tool for survival in today's world, unless you're a subsistence farmer or fisherman who barters, in which case you're probably barely surviving.

Money is an unnecessary tool. When you have an abundance, provided by modern machinery. Very few people today in industrialized nations actually perform constructive work,more than half of them are employed in destructive, unhealthy, unnecessary businesses (bankers, bookkeepers, accountants, insurance, realestate, cashiers, sales, advertising etc.) set to make us slaves to 30-year mortgages for cheap housing made of sheetrock and 2 x 4's.

Karl Marx, Bertrand Russel, Muammar Gadaffi (leader of Libya) realized that with abundance, money would become superfluous:

The final step is when the new socialist [communist] society reaches the stage where profit and money disappear. It is through transforming society into a fully productive society, and through reaching in production a level where the material needs of the members of society are satisfied. On that final stage, profit will automatically disappear and there will be no need for money.

-- MUAMMAR AL QATHAFI, The Green Book: The Solution of the Economic Problem, pt. 2 (1977) Qathafi (spelled this way in the book), the populist leader of Libya, is a theistic communist who believes in eliminating money. He proposes to form a United States of Africa. President Reagan bombed Qathafi's house killing his adopted daughter. [This screed was written shortly thereafter. More praise of Gadhafi, below.] www.qadhafi.org/​

Finally, when all capital, all production, and all exchange are concentrated in the hands of the people, private ownership will automatically have ceased to exist, money will have become superfluous, and production will have so increased and men will be so much changed that the last forms of the old social relations will also be able to fall away.

-- F. ENGELS, Principals of Communism, 1847​

The task of abolishing the essence of Jewry is actually the task of abolishing the Jewish character of civil society, abolishing the inhumanity of the present-day practice of life, the most extreme expression of which is the money system.

-- KARL MARX, The Holy Family, [italics in original], 1845​

Communist society will know nothing of money [or barter/work credits] . . . socialism is an intermediate stage between capitalism and communism.

-- NIKOLAI BUKHARIN, The ABC of Communism, 1919 Bukharin was a colleague of Lenin and editor of Isvestia; he was arrested for betraying the socialist revolution, his book was banned and in 1938, after a show-trial, he was executed.​

The demonic person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more and more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him; and my other enemy will also be killed. I am the lord of everything, I am the enjoyer, I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus shall I rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance.

-- KRISHNA, Bhagavad-Gita, xvi, 16​

The dictature of money marches on, tending to its material peak, in the Faustian civilization as in every other. And now something happens that is intelligible only to one who has penetrated the essence of money. If it were anything tangible, then its existence would be forever -- but, as it is a form of thought, it fades out as soon as it has thought its economic world to finality, and has no more material upon which to feed . . . We have not the freedom to reach to this or that, but to do the necessary or to do nothing. And a task that historic necessity has set will be accomplished with the individual or against him.

--OSWALD SPENGLER, The Decline of the West, Vol. 2, conclusion [italics in original], 1922​

There is a very great deal to be said for the Anarchist plan of allowing necessaries, and all commodities that can easily be produced in quantities adequate to any possible demand, to be given away freely to all who ask for them, in any amounts they may require. The question whether this plan should be adopted is, to my mind, a purely technical one: would it be, in fact, possible to adopt it without much waste and consequent diversion of labor to the production of necessaries when it might be more usefully employed otherwise? I have not the means of answering this question, but I think it exceedingly probable that, sooner or later, with continued improvement in the methods of production, this Anarchist plan will become feasible; and when it does, it certainly ought to be adopted.

— Bertrand Russell, Proposed Roads to Freedom, 1919​

Money is a new and terrible form of slavery, and like the old form of personal slavery it demoralizes both slave and slave-owner, only much more, for it frees the slave and the slave-owner from personal, human relations with one another.

— Nikoli Tolstoy, What Must We Do?, 1886​

When Christians say 'Christ will come again', I don't interpret that to mean Jesus is returning to earth in the flesh. I see that as meaning that Jesus lives on in the people who uphold his principles, and that just as there were many before him, there will be many Anointed Ones after him as well, who carry the same beautiful message.

Right, The Truth will never die but will rise again in other "Anointed Ones." Trouble is: just as the Pharisees were blind & deaf to Jesus, a Messiah, the Christians today would crucify and slander a Messiah, like me!

 

[Shambles]

If U look at the stars on the back of the $1-bill you will see that the 13 stars form a hexagram (Israeli Star).

Or you could always connect them up differently to form a different pattern if it would make you feel a little better about things .

Why are religious types so obsessed with ending the world as soon as possible? I quite like it here myself and long may it continue. To be perfectly honest, the whole idea of the "righteous" nipping up to heavenly pastures whilst leaving all as "sinners" down here to take our chances in the big Christ vs Anti-Christ scrap to end 'em all, is ridiculous. If this was the case, then what has been the point of the last 15-odd billion years of time? All that time and effort so 144,000 sanctimonious Christian types get their longed-for wish. A bit wasteful, no? Surely this all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. God fella could have come up with a better plan.

 

[GoddessLSD-XTC]

^^^ I don't believe the supernatural BS about the rapture or 144,000.

There's no other way to configure the 13 stars above the Eagle on the back of the $1 bill except a Hexagram (Jewish Star of David). There's lotsa Masonic symbolism in the U$A's "Great Seal" (front and back).

 

[IGNVS]

^^^ Thank you for making me feel vindicated, Obyron. Whenever I encounter an old piece of writing which is hard to make sense of, I always strongly consider the possibility that it was a political satire or coded message, written at a time when nobody in positions of power tolerated any dissent.

and then what about Daniel?

 

[jpgrdnr]

The Beast was Nero. The Whore of Babylon was Rome. Revelations stopped being relevant in like the 5th century AD.

There's definitely a few points in history where there is a similarity. But that's where it ends.

Um, also to point out there's a few other Apocalypses roaming about in fiction-land. Its definitely interesting that people find Revelations so fascinating.
There's a few books on that as well.

I've always wondered why other end-time stories/myths haven't caught on from other cultures...

 

[socko]

Goddess666, do you read anything else besides the "buy-bull?" There's a lot of other books that are way more prophetic and germane to todays problems. Tolstoy is a good example. You even quoted him.
Even better is science fiction. Orwell and Huxley are classics. Another extremely prophetic book, John Brunner's the Sheep Look Up is another. It was written in the 1960s, i think, but it deals with money, overpopulation, peak energy, "end times," the "dumbing down" of the americans, it's even got Dubya, our presisdent, but he's known by anotehr name "Prezzy" in the book. Or how about emma goldman or gnome chomsky?

I think it's a sign of mental illness when people are CONSTANTLY quoting revelations, ezekial and that other bible garbage and stretching any modern day analogies way too far, saying it's prophetic. Somebody else already made the alex jones comment and i agree. But maybe this is only your schtick for bluelight, and you're trolling all of us. IMO, it's better to expose yourself to other types of literature by people with different perspectives and develop your mind.
I'll probably get a warning for flaming you. I dont' mean to offend, but this is how i see it.