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Ayahuasca and Methadone interactions

NW-baltiland

NW-baltiland

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Jan 31, 2008
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I dont know if this should be in OD or if it is alright here but my question has specifically to do with the MAOI part of Ayahuasca interacting with methadone. A couple sources say for certain not to take MAOI's while on methadone so I was wondering is there anyway to have a "full" Aya experience while taking my daily dose of 95mg's? Or, would it be okay to stop taking my methadone for 2 days and then using a short acting opioid such as oxycodone to keep withdrawls away until I have the experience and for maybe a day after so theres no chance of having any bad interactions. I really am looking forward to using the spirit molecule as I've been reading all about it for years now but had held off until I was more mature and had all around more "good vibes" in my life. I want to have a few rides with Aya and then go on to smoking Mr. Dimitri;). Anyways thanks for the replies in advance.<3
 
You need to research further as I have teensy weensy holes in my brain ;) but you'll be OK with the methadone I would imagine :)
 
^^Thanks, I think I'm going to try a small dose first and if that works okay I wont take my meth on the day of the "real" experience and that should take away any interacting effects I guess.
 
Yes I think that's best as the BNF has opiods & MAOIs as a contraindication (more some opioids than others). If there's anything tangable from a low dose, seriously think ewice before guzzling a full dose
 
Thanks for the reply, that's what I read as well, with demerol and tramadol delivering the worst interactions and methadone behind those two, I just don't know how far behind those two, I guess I'll find out in few days with a small dose.
 
Just remember to take into account the long half life of methadone, which if I recollect varies from something around 20 hours to a whopping 54 hours, subject dependant.

Believe me you do not want to experience the effects of MAOi & contraindicated drugs
 
Thanks for the concern I know the halflife is a long ass time so I will be careful, thanks for the reply and if you want to close now that's fine as I'm going to experiment with a small amount in a couple days.
 
How are you taking the aya? Is it extracted dimitri or a "brew"?
 
I want to use B. caapi and MHRB in seperate brews. I just dont know what kind of dose of b. caapi I should start with. Like maybe start with 10g's to see if there is any interactions and then if it's okay use 75 for the main trip with 10 g's of MHRB. I also would like to do it in a 2 day type thing, with the first day being a very small experience and then really going for it the second day. If I have to stop using my methadone and start using a different opiate I will.

edit- And now that I'm looking more, Erowid and a couple other places don't say anything about methadone, only Demerol and some sites say tramadol but not many say methadone. humm, it's wierd, no definitive answer. I guess the only way to tell is to do some low dose experimenting.
 
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Ismene said:
10g of mimosa? Isn't that about 5mg of DMT?
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D
Not from the sources I've been reading. I'm not exactly sure how much DMT is in that much bark but I'm sure It varies. Everyone I've talked to said to start with around 3-4g's of MHRB, so I'm going to start low and then if theres no problem than I'm going to go with 10-12g's of MHRB.=D Obviously the MHRB has nothing to do with the interaction so this is just for adding to the experience. I
 
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So how much DMT is in that? I had it in my mind that mimosa has 0.05% DMT content?
 
Xorkoth said:
No, mimosa hostilis dosages range from 5-10mg generally, from what I understand.
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What do you mean, 5-10mg's? Do you mean 5-10 grams? that would make more sense.

Oh and to Ismene, Erowid has MHRB as .57% DMT so with 8 grams you would have around 45mg's of DMT.
 
there isnt a huge interaction between methadone (as having some nmda action) and maois. it exists, but a well known pharmacology professor (and methadone addict and maoi user) i asked about this once said that he wasnt aware of any cases of bad reactions between the two.

The reversible maois you take with ayahuasca wont inhbit MAO strongly enough to allow anyone to have a serotonergic episode anyway. And their short duration means any potential problem would be over before it could cause much harm anyway.

There is very little to zero risk with this combination, in my opinion.. however, it pays to be careful, as always.


the contraindication of opiates and maois was a blanket statement put in the literature by the drug companies to cover their asses after one or two spectacularly bad cases involving demerol. However.. what they dont tell you is that a lot of people got demerol on maois without incident.

There have been no cases (at least as of the time i researched it a few months ago) of negative interaction of regular opiates (morphine type) with maois, aside from the possibility for increased sedation, which is known.

do some research out there. there is a lot of information on MAOI interactions on anesthesiology webpages and psychiatry webpages. what i have discovered (being a long time maoi user for recreation and utility value) is that some of the interactions are overblown (maoi+opiate and maoi+dissociative), some of the interactions are more dangerous (maoi+sudafed, maoi+ssri). some, such as the combining of maois with dopaminergics and other antidepressants, are something that is left to individual case, and must be monitored carefully.

watch out though.. opiates in my experience with maois are a bit more powerful..
 
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Newmoonrecord said:
there isnt a huge interaction between methadone (as having some nmda action) and maois. it exists, but a well known pharmacology professor (and methadone addict and maoi user) i asked about this once said that he wasnt aware of any cases of bad reactions between the two.

The reversible maois you take with ayahuasca wont inhbit MAO strongly enough to allow anyone to have a serotonergic episode anyway. And their short duration means any potential problem would be over before it could cause much harm anyway.

There is very little to zero risk with this combination, in my opinion.. however, it pays to be careful, as always.
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Thanks very much sir, I will be careful with the first try and then guage my 2 day experience from the first try. So I guess I will probobly just drink some of the B. caapi by itself first. It's good to hear this and I'm glad you got your information from a reputable source, anyways thanks a bunch.<3

Oh and I'm also very used to the methadone as I've been using it at this amount for over 2 and half years but I will still watch out, good info man, and I will keep reading.
 
first and foremost, i mean no disrespect to you. Ayahuasca requires a lot of respect. it is used as a very in depth and powerful healing tool used carefully by shamanic healers. like most psychedelics, it involves deep interpersonal examination and self reflection. if you have an opiate addiction, its not for you. there is a special diet and fasting phase prior to consuming Ayahuasca that is to be respected. if you go through with this anyway just be fairly warned that you may not like what the spirit molecule is going to show you. jBe safe-
 
53v3risJC said:
first and foremost, i mean no disrespect to you. Ayahuasca requires a lot of respect. it is used as a very in depth and powerful healing tool used carefully by shamanic healers. like most psychedelics, it involves deep interpersonal examination and self reflection. if you have an opiate addiction, its not for you. there is a special diet and fasting phase prior to consuming Ayahuasca that is to be respected. if you go through with this anyway just be fairly warned that you may not like what the spirit molecule is going to show you. jBe safe-
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people's mileage may vary. in my experience, ayahuasca (in the form of "pharmahuasca") was the easiest used and most recreational of psychedelics that i have done. i thought it was way less confusing and much easier to deal with than mushrooms or LSD.

the diet and fasting came out of a specific religious context in south america. I do not live in south america, nor do i follow traditional beliefs about entheogens.. that didnt hamper my chances of success apparently.

whatever floats your boat.

as far as i know there is no physiological basis for fasting before ayahuasca. I cant imagine having a better trip by not eating. I have never fasted and all 5 of my pharmahuasca trips have been the best psychedelic experiences that i've had.
 
53v3risJC said:
first and foremost, i mean no disrespect to you. Ayahuasca requires a lot of respect. it is used as a very in depth and powerful healing tool used carefully by shamanic healers. like most psychedelics, it involves deep interpersonal examination and self reflection. if you have an opiate addiction, its not for you. there is a special diet and fasting phase prior to consuming Ayahuasca that is to be respected. if you go through with this anyway just be fairly warned that you may not like what the spirit molecule is going to show you. jBe safe-
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Well I do find this as condescending and disrespecful seeing as you have know idea who I am and how my life goes. At this point I'm doing better than I ever have. I also have severe arthitis in my knees and a big problem with sciatica that only seems to go away with opiates. When I take the methadone I feel normal and I can accomplish everything I put my mind to, and as long as I'm putting in effort, living a positive life, and give Aya the respect it deserves I don't see why the lovely world of Aya will have a problem with me coming to visit. And as I said I've been doing research on it for a long long time and have extensive experience with many other psych's. Sorry for the rant it's just I feel that I am ready. I really am ready.

I'm also not fasting but am taking precaution to all the foods and whatnot I cannot ingest for the days beforehand. I will eat a light meal the day of.
 
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