Awesome weekend binge, health risk?

[3BB]

Hey.

Well, somtimes we do things we shouLd not do, isn't that what they say?

Well, last friday i was going to take some acid and relax with a good friend of mine and my GF . But ofc, I went on a little binge. Not too smart having much dope laying around when on acid, lesson learned

I started out 20:00 ish with weed, and wich i continiued smoking trougt the weekend, aprox 1g MJ and 3g Hasjis. then 2 hits of really good LSD, 20min later 150mg MDMA. That combo was amazing! The two of us that had taken acid, was blown away. Then at 00:30 when the L had began to slowly fade somewhat, so I followed up with another 150mg MDMA, and then later on aprox 300mg amphetamine and 200mg coke spread out evenly through out saturday, and finished off with 20mg diazepam to get to sleep.

This was a great two dayer, and an amazing experience! But I wonder if there is any massive health risk involved in a binge like this?

Im an experienced user.

Thansk for answering, and good weekend for you all!

 

[Solipsis]

Combining LSD and MDMA is generally accepted to be both amazing and taxing on your body (and mind).

Also, combining stimulants like that - these quantities of cocaine, speed and MDMA will exhaust and deplete monoamine stores in your nervous system and be a strong load on your heart and blood vessels.

There are risks associated with that typical for stimulants.

Also the LSD might increase your chances of amphetamine psychosis somewhat but if it is an immediate danger can be disputed.

Just don't do this often and consider it a special occasion, then I guess your body and mind if healthy should be able to handle it (still I would really cut back on the amphetamine and coke, they don't seem as necessary to me and they make it a pretty hard combo while what they contribute might not be as proportionate, plus the ego-centric effects of coke are IMO potentially conflicting with the LSD - I tried that once and it bummed out my trip.

So the question is: in retrospect was every single drug 'necessary' and how frequent do you think you might be doing this?

 

[3BB]

In retrospect, No,I guesses they were not nessesary. This is not somthing i can se my self doing more than 6 times a year? And next time i will take only 1-1/1/2 hit of LSD, and drop the coke completly. The two hits combined with the emma and weed made a quite strong trip.

But after this weekend I have become much more responsible with the storage and availability on my stash when under the influence. I write this as a warning for other people that tend to be just as reckless with how they store their stash. You see, at some point in the acid trip I almost took a dose aMT freebase by mistake. It was litterally 50/50 chance that I could have taken it since I confused two identical gel caps, one containing 150mg mdma, the other one 90mg aMT and just took one of two. 30min later I suddenly realized what I had done. And "shakingly" checked the other gelcap, LUCKILY that one contained the amt

After what I've read and think I understand in pharmalogy, I've found that the aMT would proably have sent me to the hospital, I'm guessing serotonin syndrome/strokes would accoure pretty rapidly. I really felt that as an near death experience, but it dident effect my trip in a wery negative way, how can you be worried with 300mg emma abord? The day after therby, i realy understod that i was minuttes from fucking up, big time.

Be carefull fellow drug nerds!

 

[zn13bt]

Watch out for Suicide Tuesdays with a combo like that. Maybe eat lots of food containing tyrosine and tryptophan (meats, cheese, etc.) to help replenish your monoamines.

 

[EarthBounded]

Honestly I would cut out everything besides the cocaine... I find most LSD users do fine on Coke and it usually gets you through the next day, the speed and MDMA are a recipe for full spectrum neurotoxicity, that hangover had to just suck??!! I hate to be a dork here but I do not take uppers I used to, however I believe a pyscadelic experience is way more educational without the use of uppers or diazepam...

Sounds like you have an arsenal of cool shit lol basically I dont think LSD would pose any health risk in combo, besides possible problems with the psyche, which the chance will increase every time you take this combo.. Taking coke, speed and MDMA is foolish no offense it is good you are warning people of what can happen. I suffer permanent damage from Amphetamine, coke and especially MDMA and MDA( Plus benzo, opiate) its seriously no fucking joke once you go to far. Just remember you might have to live the rest of your life twitching and paranoid and sometimes unable to speak and the need to relearn alot of shit, that is my education for you.


I am an experienced user and Took LSD and MDMA at a festival and seriously thought I permanently damaged my brain, let alone I was with a creepy Gipsy which made shit way weirder I cannot fucking imagine, Coke, speed and diazepam on top of that day...

Also be careful cutting off speed and E trips with Valium, I used natural alternatives for this...

This thread is a good warning though for users I have too got in binges where i was just lucky as fuck to come out of. Let alone kinda normal!

I would change all that out for just a very high dose LSD trip, your not gonna need any uppers when ya come out of that usually a couple cups of coffee keep me going 24-48 hours after a Heavy L dose. If you need uppers, use them as minimally throughout the experience.

 

[Solipsis]

EB, How is cocaine not a neurotoxicity issue but MDMA and amphetamine are? And the psychedelic experience is educational on its own but you do advocate the coke? Uh, yea right.

3BB, If you had thrown in the AMT, the sheer excess of the whole combo might have been a problem yes. But I am not seeing the dangerous SS contraindication you are suggesting there would be? Help me out.

 

[3BB]

Honestly I would cut out everything besides the cocaine... I find most LSD users do fine on Coke and it usually gets you through the next day. I hate to be a dork here but I do not take uppers I used to, however I believe a pyscadelic experience is way more educational without the use of uppers...

Sounds like you have an arsenal of cool shit lol basically I dont think LSD would pose any health risk.
However taking coke, speed and MDMA is foolish no offense it is good you are warning people of what can happen.

Also be careful cutting off speed and E trips with Valium

Interesting, why shoud you not cut off with valium? i've never heard of that before. I thought diazepam was the "antidote" for stim OD`s. Is it due to the pharmasoligy or pshycological aspects?

yes, I guess it's was quite foolish. No offence on that. The plan was not to make this a "spiritual" thing, then I would just do emma or L on small doses. This was, or developed to become a test of how much is enough for me. And I think I've reached the limit for my liking.

zn13bt: My plan was to take some 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-htp) for the comdown, but I seem to have lost it And that's too bad, 5H always seem to work for the tuesday blues after use of powerful seratonin releasers

And yes, I have lot's of cool stuf, but have to wait for summer so I can be outedoors in the sun.

Thanks for the answers!

 

[Venrak]

EB, How is cocaine not a neurotoxicity issue but MDMA and amphetamine are? And the psychedelic experience is educational on its own but you do advocate the coke? Uh, yea right.

3BB, If you had thrown in the AMT, the sheer excess of the whole combo might have been a problem yes. But I am not seeing the dangerous SS contraindication you are suggesting there would be? Help me out.

^^^

αMT acts as relatively balanced releasing agent of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine,[5] and as a non-selective serotonin receptor agonist.[6] It acts as a very weak, non-selective and reversible inhibitor of the enzyme monoamine oxidase (MAO), but this is unlikely to be very significant if at all with typical doses

 

[EarthBounded]

Interestin, why soud you not cut off with valium? iv neaver heard of that before. I tougt valium was the "antidote" for stim OD`s. Is it due to the parmasoligy or psykologicaly aspects?

MDMA + Any Benzodiazepine is recipe for death bro, Same with speed. Of course you have to have a high enough dose but 300mg MDMA plus 2mg xanax can result in death maybe even one and Diazepam is obviously related to Xanax. Yea it helps with come down but you can die.

It is safer to use benzos with psychedelics sometimes with large dose trips I keep a xanax near by because you never know whats gonna happen, but reguarly using these to come down off of MDMA is a terrible idea there were a few deaths last year in my area from this and it was just MDMA and benzo.

I would stick with the cocaine because it is a pretty natural alkaloid extract from the coca plant with much less of a chemical base then MDMA and speed.

 

[Solipsis]

It's not as simple as being an antidote. An antidote would be a drug that abolishes effects directly by pressing the off switch on the same machine that turned the effects on.
That is not what valium does. Valium activates something else (GABA and benzodiazepine receptors) that produce a sedative effect.

Your CNS and cardiovascular system is then getting mixed signals. The stims are still saying ON!! regarding stimulation and the sedative effects are also saying ON!! regarding calming.
While you have only one heart that can have only 1 heartrate, this can confuse your body which is not a good idea to do on a regular basis. It's hard to say what bad things could happen but it is not healthy to mix uppers and downers.

Taking natural remedies does not change anything about that other than that they tend to be more subtle and balanced in modulatory effects. I agree that something like theanine or even valerian are preferred unless you are intensely stimulated. But not all mild alternatives may be realistic if the stimulation is significant.
And it all depends on how much exhaustion and sleep deprivation you can tolerate. Riding it out without messing with it has its pro's and cons.

Earthbounded, I think you are pretty deluded and biased with the whole chemical vs. natural debate. There are things to say for some natural products, but whether cocaine is synthesized in a lab or in nature does not change the nature of the drug.
There are many superior products produced in labs and many poisons made in nature and vice versa. You cannot overgeneralize that one drug is better than the other purely on this basis. Judge each drug by its actual properties, not by how it is derived. Not doing so would demonstrate limited perspective.

The coca plant seems to be a drug that is not too extreme and it has limited side-effects and risks. The amounts of cocaine you get this way are limited and there are possibly other compounds in there that modulate the effects of cocaine and make it better. but once they process it and get the powder out... it makes for a drug that is toxic for the heart and at least as or more dangerous than amphetamines or MDMA.

Read this 'synthetic vs natural drugs' thread to get a better perspective. You have a lot to learn. Be open to both sides of the story presented by different posters in that thread. It is not so simple. And I don't mean to say that there is a 'winner' in the debate. But there are views that are too limited because they fail to take some things into account.
Don't be a person who is unwilling to learn about things that need to be taken into account because you cannot let go of your opinions.

 

[3BB]

MDMA + Any Benzodiazepine is recipe for death bro, Same with speed. Of course you have to have a high enough dose but 300mg MDMA plus 2mg xanax can result in death maybe even one and Diazepam is obviously related to Xanax. Yea it helps with come down but you can die.

It is safer to use benzos with psychedelics sometimes with large dose trips I keep a xanax near by because you never know whats gonna happen, but reguarly using these to come down off of MDMA is a terrible idea there were a few deaths last year in my area from this and it was just MDMA and benzo.

I would stick with the cocaine because it is a pretty natural alkaloid extract from the coca plant with much less of a chemical base then MDMA and speed.

Oh, you dont say. i have always used benzo for the comdown for all kind of upers, tho not used it when on downers like GHB/GBL. Im going to read up on the subject when becoming clear headed. Thanks for the warning.

 

[Solipsis]

While mixing uppers and downers is not healthy for your heart because the mixed signals can confuse its activity, and if you are very unlucky this might lead to complications, your post may be overdramatizing it without really explaining, EB.
Can you elaborate?

And Venrak, yes of course I am aware of AMT's not well understood MAOI status or its controverse regarding proper application of that property, but which drugs in this combination would have been especially problematic with it? The coke, the amphetamine? Maybe I misunderstood that AMT was almost substituted for MDMA, was it almost taken on top of or completely instead of MDMA?

 

[EarthBounded]

While mixing uppers and downers is not healthy for your heart because the mixed signals can confuse its activity, and if you are very unlucky this might lead to complications, your post may be overdramatizing it without really explaining, EB.
Can you elaborate?

And Venrak, yes of course I am aware of AMT's not well understood MAOI status or its controverse regarding proper application of that property, but which drugs in this combination would have been especially problematic with it? The coke, the amphetamine? Maybe I misunderstood that AMT was almost substituted for MDMA, was it almost taken on top of or completely instead of MDMA?

Solispis- I am not advocating for cocaine use, I am saying if the OP has an addiction to uppers and doesn't want to suffer a withdrawal during the trip use a little coke. Trust me I do not advocate for coke I am just getting used to alot of people not wanting to drop the habit so why not adapt and give correct advice, and again cocaine is a simple alkaloid extract of a plant I would say safer in moderation the speed and E within a trip. I was simply stating my trips are always just a psycadelic, no uppers. However seeing the OP hit up 3 different kinds of uppers during his trip I thought cutting down to one was metting in the middle for proper advice, I frequently trip with coke addicts and there is never an issue, thats why I was sharing this is the safer route. MDMA especially MDA are the most neurotoxic chemicals out there and speed is related. I understand cocaine is neurotoxic as well however it is safer to use just one upper if your going to be using and like you said Amphetamine and LSD can lead to physcosis.

Can someone please jump in and second me on the Benzo. MDMA and Mephedrone dealers in my area wont even sell to benzo users because of two deaths in particular within 50 miles of me. I read a little bit real quick This combo puts stress on the heart and vascilure system.

Some say its a myth, I just dont believe it is safe for the rec user by anymeans, putting it up near a speed ball if not worse, the OP did take it after some time but still must have been wooping his heart hard...

 

[Solipsis]

An addiction to uppers? No idea what you're talking about. Yes TS talked about mixing 3 stimulants, that does not make him or his friend physically dependent on them. I get it if that is your frame of reference but maybe next time provide that information if you give opinionated advice like that.

MDMA the most neurotoxic chemicals out there? Not by a long shot. Provide sources if you're going to say things like that.
Subjectively MDA seems to be worse though, yea.

Regarding those 2 deaths in your area, get some info on that if you can because I think you are missing some vital background here. Like I said it is not terribly healthy to combine uppers and downers in general especially if one of them is an overdose because when one of the effects starts waning it stops countering the other one which is why a speedball is so dangerous. However a speedball is not with benzo's.

Again, with bold statements like giving out warnings of fatal contraindication that I don't know anything about, get some sources to back it up. If not here then go look on the internet.

 

[EarthBounded]

An addiction to uppers? No idea what you're talking about. Yes TS talked about mixing 3 stimulants, that does not make him or his friend physically dependent on them. I get it if that is your frame of reference but maybe next time provide that information if you give opinionated advice like that.

MDMA the most neurotoxic chemicals out there? Not by a long shot. Provide sources if you're going to say things like that.
Subjectively MDA seems to be worse though, yea.

Regarding those 2 deaths in your area, get some info on that if you can because I think you are missing some vital background here. Like I said it is not terribly healthy to combine uppers and downers in general especially if one of them is an overdose because when one of the effects starts waning it stops countering the other one which is why a speedball is so dangerous. However a speedball is not with benzo's.

Again, with bold statements like giving out warnings of fatal contraindication that I don't know anything about, get some sources to back it up. If not here then go look on the internet.

Alright I have looked online I guess this is just whats happening in my community... I have been hearing this for years from E dealers, I am not saying everyone is going to die from it I just learned there was a larger risk, and a pretty large risk but at this time I do not have any online sources because that is my fault maybe I will start another thread to see if anyone can expand on this.

I also said IF the OP was addicted. Its a possibility, I was trying to give safer advice, obviously the best advice is nothing but the LSD... But the OP sounds like he likes his uppers.

 

[Solipsis]

Alright I have looked online I guess this is just whats happening in my coms munity... I have been hearing this for years from E dealers, I am not saying everyone is going to die from it I just learned there was a larger risk, and a pretty large risk but at this time I do not have any online sources because that is my fault maybe I will start another thread to see if anyone can expand on this.

Thanks, that would be cool if you can find something interesting on the matter.

I also said IF the OP was addicted.

Yes you said that after I started asking.

Anyway, maybe its about time someone else commented on matters. We may be running out of perspectives.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

While mixing uppers and downers is not healthy for your heart because the mixed signals can confuse its activity

That is not how it works at all. It's not like there's a go-faster and go-slower button in your brain controlling heartrate, and don't forget diazepam is standard treatment for stimulant overdoses^{1 2 3 4}.


The danger usually comes from dosing higher than you would otherwise with one or both substances involved (though certainly some can have more complex interactions that may be problematic).

 

[Solipsis]

Really? I noticed that it could make me feel pretty weird / not okay and seemingly promote heartrate irregularities and I thought I had read this. But some combo's are worse than others for sure, like benzo's seem fine but opiates not so much.

Anyway then why is it warned not to mix uppers and downers, apart from having to avoid overdoses as if you were not combining them??

And no buttons are oversimplifying, but the brainstem / autonomic nervous system is responsible for breathing and heartrate right? (Although I think the heart has special nervous tissue for that to time all the charges and discharges, correct? I might be retrieving that from the depths of my ass tho.) and that part of the nervous system does react to things that affect the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system right?
I still think there is something wrong about conflicting signals that are not naturally balanced out by the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system, otherwise I have no idea how I came up with that.

Let me just check that link, it probably answers it.

edit: thanks

 

[TheAppleCore]

Well, I'm not sure about mixing uppers and downers in general, but I do know that using beta-blockers in an attempt to mitigate the cardiovascular effects of adrenergic drugs like amphetamines is considered risky - it has to do with the fact that norepinephrine targets BOTH alpha- and beta-adrenergic receptors, but beta-blockers of course only block beta-receptors, and so it can create a dangerous imbalance between alpha- and beta-adrenergic agonism.

 

[xx001]

My understanding was that the main health risk with cocaine was the cardiotoxicity and not the neurotoxicity, somewhat opposite from amphetamine