Attachment theory, the horrible reality of dating/flirting with Avoidants

[Neuroborean]

For some obscure and strange reason, ever since I broke up with my ex-girlfriend with BPD the women I have been attracted to (and to some extent they to me) have been “avoidants” I think specifically “dismissive avoidants”.

I am writing this thread to let you know that it is very very very very very difficult and confusing to deal with these people. Amanita (muscaria), one of the most significant entheogens and master plants in my life, explained to me what happens to these people, they feel that “love is death” that is, they relate love, intimacy, emotional closeness with risk, danger therefore they run away from intimacy, commitment or anything that makes them feel vulnerable, and many things, the smallest ones... make them feel vulnerable!

It's really horrible,
I met an amazing girl after a friend's wedding, I met her in a very special context as we took miprocine (I invited them) after the wedding, it was an amazing trip and I couldn't believe the connection I had with this girl, I had a hard time not "throwing myself on her" at any moment, the sexual tension was huge and lasted all night long.


Nothing happened that night but after a few weeks we saw each other (she came on vacation and to work in my area) and I camped out with her and some friends, we had some amazing conversations, and I gave her a peak. The next day was practically perfect and we ended up kissing passionately in an abandoned monastery, I could see that things were moving forward even though the day before she had told me that she was “emotionally unavailable” and that it was better if we “were friends”....

Well, it has not been like that, a couple of days later she told me that for her the kiss had been “a little poetic license” and although we had lived magical moments and she felt great with me and we were very much alike ... we were friends.

What kind of friends hold hands for a whole day, kiss in abandoned monasteries and talk about intimacies in view of the future? the "friends" of the avoidants?
She told me “not to go to the Festival” (to which I was “invited”) with her and her friends, because she did not want to feel the tension between us in that context. In the end I went (because I wanted to go) but with a friend, I did not meet her, nor did I write to her during that period. Then she wrote me and told me how she was, told me that she had felt that I was there (intuition) and acknowledged that she felt a mixture of fear and excitement with the idea of having seen me there. She said that we could meet in some “mystical place” ....
However, after having talked about the places where we could meet, she now feels “pressure” with the idea of seeing us, and is afraid it will not be easy to set up a real day to meet again.
It's really terrible this, as the connection is very real (a friend has listened to an audio of her and without me telling her anything she said to me with amazement that it's like listening to a “female alter ego” of mine...) and I don't know what to do to get her out of my head. On the other hand every time I see a video about avoidants it makes me think that the relationship has no way out and that it is going to be a nightmare, however I know that the connection is real and it would be amazing if it would work.... very careful with these people, if you really connect it can be totally crazy and very frustrating.
For some reason the previous person I liked (much less than this one) was also avoidant (this last one she told me, I'm not making this up).

Anyway, it's a shame, because these are people who want to love but boycott relationships every time it seems to be going somewhere, apparently they prefer toxic people since they don't have to commit emotionally to them (they know it's not going anywhere and therefore don't “get wet” with them).
I don't know if I will be able to cope with this or if I should run away, I don't like to run away, I like to fight especially if what I feel is as special as with her. I feel pretty fucked up guys.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I've previously thought that you may be almost pathologising people who simply don't fancy entering into a relationship with you for whatever reason. You may be better served looking at your own stuff instead of outsourcing reasons for why this seems to be a repeated pattern for you. Maybe.

Am not saying that there aren't 'avoidants' out there mind (I haven't read up on the term but i'd say there's a reasonable chance that I'd be classed as one myself!). Seriously hurt people avoid getting hurt again sometimes for sure, even if it's subconsciously.

 

[SotPoker1012]

A long time friend of mine was like this. She outright told me once that she often dates people she knows are toxic because she feels safer having an easy reason to leave.

Years of therapy seemed to change her outlook. She eventually found somebody that she was willing to settle down with, and they've been together five years. Recently got engaged.

Personally I'm moreso the anxious type, and mostly dated other anxious types. That can be quite toxic too, leading to a ridiculous level of codependency from both sides.

Ultimately to have a healthy relationship, both parties need to get a grip on their own toxic tendencies.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

A long time friend of mine was like this. She outright told me once that she often dates people she knows are toxic because she feels safer having an easy reason to leave.

Years of therapy seemed to change her outlook. She eventually found somebody that she was willing to settle down with, and they've been together five years. Recently got engaged.

Personally I'm moreso the anxious type, and mostly dated other anxious types. That can be quite toxic too, leading to a ridiculous level of codependency from both sides.

Ultimately to have a healthy relationship, both parties need to get a grip on their own toxic tendencies.

I didn't go for toxicity, just for people I didn't think I'd really fall for. Wasn't aware of it at the the time though, but in retrospect it's clear. It was of course hugely unfair on a couple of my previous partners which I regret (particularly unfair on one great woman as it really affected her self esteem. I don't feel good about it at all but am not beating myself up about it either as wasn't aware of it at the time)

Being aware that one is going for toxicity on purpose sounds like it has self-harm / low self-worth components as opposed to (or as well as) just protecting oneself from pain or commitment

 

[SotPoker1012]

I didn't go for toxicity, just for people I didn't think I'd really fall for. Wasn't aware of it at the the time though, but in retrospect it's clear. It was of course hugely unfair on a couple of my previous partners which I regret (particularly unfair on one great woman as it really affected her self esteem. I don't feel good about it at all but am not beating myself up about it either as wasn't aware of it at the time)

Being aware that one is going for toxicity on purpose sounds like it has self-harm / low self-worth components as opposed to (or as well as) just protecting oneself from pain or commitment

I think on a conscious level it was about avoiding commitment, but yes there was likely a variety of factors going on underneath that. She was not a very healthy or stable person back then. Hence therapy making a positive difference.

I should clarify that by "toxic", I don't think she meant seriously abusive as much as just a person that was self centered, prone to lying, stuff like that.

 

[docpavor]

Amanita (muscaria), one of the most significant entheogens and master plants in my life, explained to me what happens to these people, they feel that “love is death” that is, they relate love, intimacy, emotional closeness with risk, danger therefore they run away from intimacy, commitment or anything that makes them feel vulnerable, and many things, the smallest ones... make them feel vulnerable!

You can talk to plants, or they to you? Amazing!
But I guess plants have very different kind of intimacy and little idea about human relationships.

I could see that things were moving forward even though the day before she had told me that she was “emotionally unavailable” and that it was better if we “were friends”

So she gave in. It was a moment and a moment doesn't mean everyday for the rest of our lives.
I agree with what @ageingpartyfiend says in his first comment. And this overthinking of relationships might be what makes them so strenous to some people that they decide to not be part of one.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I should clarify that by "toxic", I don't think she meant seriously abusive as much as just a person that was self centered, prone to lying, stuff like that.

Thanks for that, helpful regarding understanding.

'Toxic' is a very trendy word thesedays, wayyy overused and means different things to different people, so it's helpful in discussion to have if qualified

 

[Neuroborean]

I've previously thought that you may be almost pathologising people who simply don't fancy entering into a relationship with you for whatever reason. You may be better served looking at your own stuff instead of outsourcing reasons for why this seems to be a repeated pattern for you. Maybe.

Am not saying that there aren't 'avoidants' out there mind (I haven't read up on the term but i'd say there's a reasonable chance that I'd be classed as one myself!). Seriously hurt people avoid getting hurt again sometimes for sure, even if it's subconsciously.

I'm not sure you've read properly the thread, this last girl told me since the beginning she has the avoidant issue and she goes to a therapists, she told me since the beginning that she is emotionally unavalable and she is not prepared for a LTR but that doesn't mean that there's not something going on, in fact it's obvious that for her it's gonna be like that, to run away to what seems more real and powerful because it's more scary for her. I just couldn't accept that, because the connection it's too strong for me to forget about.
The previous girl I don't know if she has the psychologist diagnose but looking at the patterns, they are similar, and I've never got into that same stuff in the past so at least for me it's an actual pattern, new.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

^^^ I have read the thread, and some of your previous ones. I'm not getting at you brother, just merely suggesting we often need to look closer to home for our answers as opposed to at others

Have a look at almost any thread anywhere regarding relationships. It's almost always (99.9% minimum probs) other parties who are 'toxic' or 'narcissists' or whatever negative/difficulty it may be, seemingly, very very rarely is it 'us' (not saying that is IS you either you understand)

Do you think there's any possibility that some of your projections regarding the intensity of other's feelings towards you, or that your concept of the suitability and/or potential of these scenarios are wishful thinking? Again, that's an extremely common thing and happens to many people

 

[Neuroborean]

^^^ I have read the thread, and some of your previous ones. I'm not getting at you brother, just merely suggesting we often need to look closer to home for our answers as opposed to at others

Have a look at almost any thread anywhere regarding relationships. It's almost always (99.9% minimum probs) other parties who are 'toxic' or 'narcissists' or whatever negative/difficulty it may be, seemingly, very very rarely is it 'us' (not saying that is IS you either you understand)

Do you think there's any possibility that some of your projections regarding the intensity of other's feelings towards you, or that your concept of the suitability and/or potential of these scenarios are wishful thinking? Again, that's an extremely common thing and happens to many people

The thing is that I developed myself with A LOT of suffering through those 6 years with a girl with BPD, I also discover why I ended up with her and other girl that was probably somewhat high functional BPD (as my mother is), it was very very hard, very very hard to accept, to acknowledge and to work through it, so it comes as a bit offensive and not empathic to think that I'm "blaming" others as the root cause of the issue and I'm not observing myself or trying to solve my root issues because in fact I'm trying
I'm sure about something, I won't STAY for a long time in a toxic relationship with someone who doesn't give me what I need, I do know what I can offer in a relationship and I know my weak points and I try to work through them I'm not passive or comformist. There's some "self-love issues" that makes one to be attracted to those people? oh well, it could be, but I just cannot change my past, I just can change the present and the future, somewhat.
I do think that the issue with this people is that they CANNOT see a relationship or a connection as fully satisfying, or even "merely" satisfying to a point that make them feel safe and happy, so it will be always some sort of "projection" of the suitability, as for them almost everything it's less than perfect, do you get that?
it's pretty fucked up, because I think if they were a bit more healthy they would see the suitability, but the intensity of feelings is just not enough, specially for some psychological profile that runs away from feelings.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I'm sure about something, I won't STAY for a long time in a toxic relationship

Good to hear, healthy attitude. People often harm themselves by languishing in shit relationships for many and varied reasons it appears

 

[Neuroborean]

Good to hear, healthy attitude. People often harm themselves by languishing in shit relationships for many and varied reasons it appears

the BPD relationship was too much to endure, now I'm allergic to that type of stuff, I would try with the avoidant, but I already have my mental ultimatum, if she doesn't want to meet in a week, no contact and bye bye, I'm 36 years old, I have no time to lose.

 

[kiely]

Good to hear, healthy attitude. People often harm themselves by languishing in shit relationships for many and varied reasons it appears

Probably because it is safer and predictable .... so they know what to expect and just know what they are getting into.

It might be familiar and comfortable ... and maybe all that they know.

There is also the ' I need someone to take care of me ' tactic also so it might as well be a predictable pushover.

Healthy may be a lot of work ... but is so comfortable and worth the efforts. Every bit.

bye

 

[tryptakid]

Attachments to others and overall attachment styles are rooted intrinsically in what's familiar to us. Our earliest intimate relationships are with our parents - this is where love is first felt, described, experienced, and through those relationships understood. When we are raised in healthy and loving environment built on trust and guided by good boundaries, our experience of 'love' will reflect that. We will gravitate towards people who are familiar in so far as they feel like the kind of people we are capable of developing the same kind of love with.

If our formative experiences with love is toxic, abusive, neglectful, or otherwise unhealthy - those become the characteristics of love that feel familiar, and we will seek out relationships with people who are likely to create those same dynamics within the context of intimacy. These repetition compulsion - the propensity and drive to repeat the same style of relationships as we have previously - is subconscious. It is manifested in attraction to others, vibes, chemistry, and feelings of connection. When we have experienced trauma in our formation of love, we seek out toxic partners because they are what is familiar.

^^^ I have read the thread, and some of your previous ones. I'm not getting at you brother, just merely suggesting we often need to look closer to home for our answers as opposed to at others

Have a look at almost any thread anywhere regarding relationships. It's almost always (99.9% minimum probs) other parties who are 'toxic' or 'narcissists' or whatever negative/difficulty it may be, seemingly, very very rarely is it 'us' (not saying that is IS you either you understand)

Do you think there's any possibility that some of your projections regarding the intensity of other's feelings towards you, or that your concept of the suitability and/or potential of these scenarios are wishful thinking? Again, that's an extremely common thing and happens to many people

As we are often unable to identify our subconscious drives without rigorous self-reflection, therapy, and experience, it is common to see 'the other' as causing issues to us. While we may subconsciously seek them out because their toxicity is familiar, they too seek us out for the same reason. We can identify the ways they are toxic because we are external observers and victims of their toxicity, while we often remain unaware of the inherent toxicity we too contribute to the dynamic. This fuels repetition compulsion as while we identify these problems as having occurred, we are naive to our own part in the creating them.

The thing is that I developed myself with A LOT of suffering through those 6 years with a girl with BPD, I also discover why I ended up with her and other girl that was probably somewhat high functional BPD (as my mother is), it was very very hard, very very hard to accept, to acknowledge and to work through it, so it comes as a bit offensive and not empathic to think that I'm "blaming" others as the root cause of the issue and I'm not observing myself or trying to solve my root issues because in fact I'm trying
I'm sure about something, I won't STAY for a long time in a toxic relationship with someone who doesn't give me what I need, I do know what I can offer in a relationship and I know my weak points and I try to work through them I'm not passive or comformist. There's some "self-love issues" that makes one to be attracted to those people? oh well, it could be, but I just cannot change my past, I just can change the present and the future, somewhat.
I do think that the issue with this people is that they CANNOT see a relationship or a connection as fully satisfying, or even "merely" satisfying to a point that make them feel safe and happy, so it will be always some sort of "projection" of the suitability, as for them almost everything it's less than perfect, do you get that?
it's pretty fucked up, because I think if they were a bit more healthy they would see the suitability, but the intensity of feelings is just not enough, specially for some psychological profile that runs away from feelings.

As you've pointed out - your mother struggled with borderline personality disorder (or is it bipolar disorder, I assume the former but acronyms are misleading when discussing these things) therefor the primary example of a female lover is someone who broadcasts characteristics through this type of personality style. Her trauma is what created those characteristics as a way to protect herself from emotional abuse, and those same defensive traits which protected her served to cause you emotional pain within the context of the family system. Personality disorders are the accumulation of maladaptive personality traits which protect the person within the context of their intimate relationships, while simultaneously polluting subsequent relationships with the same patterns. They seek out close and intense intimate relationships because they feel lonely and hurt, and then push those connections away for fear of being hurt again. Any perceived flaw is understood as an example of the risk to the self and evidence that a partner should be pushed away. In pushing them away, they then feel abandoned, and desperately try to seek that person back out in an attempt to feel better, creating a violent push/pull "i hate you don't leave me" dynamic. This infects the partners and offspring closest to that relationship and spreads like a virus through subsequent romantic and interpersonal relationships.

Probably because it is safer and predictable .... so they know what to expect and just know what they are getting into.

It might be familiar and comfortable ... and maybe all that they know.

There is also the ' I need someone to take care of me ' tactic also so it might as well be a predictable pushover.

Healthy may be a lot of work ... but is so comfortable and worth the efforts. Every bit.

bye

Recovery is the only path out of these dynamics - and partners who have also found recovery are the healthiest relationships we can build. When someone is both familiar and in recovery, they can accept us for who we are, feel familiar to our experience of love, and also share in the mutual process of healing through acceptance of oneself and a commitment to accountability, growth and change. For @Neuroborean - the first step is recognizing that you are an equal part of these equations and that at this moment are incapable of partnership without your own uninspected toxic traits and resolved traumas coming in and creating intense passion and utter misery. We have to accept and love who we are as a whole person, not who we would like others to see ourselves as, in order to begin to recover and build into a new stage of healthy growth.

This is the cycle of trauma.

 

[kongoman]

Attachments to others and overall attachment styles are rooted intrinsically in what's familiar to us. Our earliest intimate relationships are with our parents - this is where love is first felt, described, experienced, and through those relationships understood. When we are raised in healthy and loving environment built on trust and guided by good boundaries, our experience of 'love' will reflect that. We will gravitate towards people who are familiar in so far as they feel like the kind of people we are capable of developing the same kind of love with.

If our formative experiences with love is toxic, abusive, neglectful, or otherwise unhealthy - those become the characteristics of love that feel familiar, and we will seek out relationships with people who are likely to create those same dynamics within the context of intimacy. These repetition compulsion - the propensity and drive to repeat the same style of relationships as we have previously - is subconscious. It is manifested in attraction to others, vibes, chemistry, and feelings of connection. When we have experienced trauma in our formation of love, we seek out toxic partners because they are what is familiar.

As we are often unable to identify our subconscious drives without rigorous self-reflection, therapy, and experience, it is common to see 'the other' as causing issues to us. While we may subconsciously seek them out because their toxicity is familiar, they too seek us out for the same reason. We can identify the ways they are toxic because we are external observers and victims of their toxicity, while we often remain unaware of the inherent toxicity we too contribute to the dynamic. This fuels repetition compulsion as while we identify these problems as having occurred, we are naive to our own part in the creating them.

As you've pointed out - your mother struggled with borderline personality disorder (or is it bipolar disorder, I assume the former but acronyms are misleading when discussing these things) therefor the primary example of a female lover is someone who broadcasts characteristics through this type of personality style. Her trauma is what created those characteristics as a way to protect herself from emotional abuse, and those same defensive traits which protected her served to cause you emotional pain within the context of the family system. Personality disorders are the accumulation of maladaptive personality traits which protect the person within the context of their intimate relationships, while simultaneously polluting subsequent relationships with the same patterns. They seek out close and intense intimate relationships because they feel lonely and hurt, and then push those connections away for fear of being hurt again. Any perceived flaw is understood as an example of the risk to the self and evidence that a partner should be pushed away. In pushing them away, they then feel abandoned, and desperately try to seek that person back out in an attempt to feel better, creating a violent push/pull "i hate you don't leave me" dynamic. This infects the partners and offspring closest to that relationship and spreads like a virus through subsequent romantic and interpersonal relationships.

Recovery is the only path out of these dynamics - and partners who have also found recovery are the healthiest relationships we can build. When someone is both familiar and in recovery, they can accept us for who we are, feel familiar to our experience of love, and also share in the mutual process of healing through acceptance of oneself and a commitment to accountability, growth and change. For @Neuroborean - the first step is recognizing that you are an equal part of these equations and that at this moment are incapable of partnership without your own uninspected toxic traits and resolved traumas coming in and creating intense passion and utter misery. We have to accept and love who we are as a whole person, not who we would like others to see ourselves as, in order to begin to recover and build into a new stage of healthy growth.

This is the cycle of trauma.

AMEN!

 

[Neuroborean]

he first step is recognizing that you are an equal part of these equations and that at this moment are incapable of partnership without your own uninspected toxic traits and resolved traumas coming in and creating intense passion and utter misery. We have to accept and love who we are as a whole person, not who we would like others to see ourselves as, in order to begin to recover and build into a new stage of healthy growth.

but what I'm trying to tell here is that I INSPECTED my own trauma and the roots, I fully recognize what's going on, but I just don't want to talk it here in a public forum, I still have some sense of intimacy that I don't want to share here or mostly anywhere.
Since my relationship with the BPD girl I realized that my own family have serious issues and obviously growing with them (a very small family) has affected me a lot so there's obviously that. If you realize that when you are 33-34 it's not like you discover it when you are 20, there's a lot of ingrained shit that has become "familiar" so well, how would anyone heal that in a couple years without any help? it's not easy, but I'm in a recovery path and I'm trying, and that's something that sadly a lot of people cannot say.
I don't know if the word "infects" talking about personality disorder it's the proper word, in a way it's a virus but that doesn't mean that you get infected by the same "disease" it seems more like you get "infected" by a reaction but that reaction can be different, for example increased ADHD, chronic diseases (I have one) or anxious attachment (like I had, now much less, I think) .It's just so sad that I lived within this situation because sometimes it feels like I'm cursed not to have a proper relationship and that makes me feel so bad.

 

[tryptakid]

but what I'm trying to tell here is that I INSPECTED my own trauma and the roots, I fully recognize what's going on, but I just don't want to talk it here in a public forum, I still have some sense of intimacy that I don't want to share here or mostly anywhere.

Of course - nor should you feel like you need to disclose any more than you feel comfortable doing.

Since my relationship with the BPD girl I realized that my own family have serious issues and obviously growing with them (a very small family) has affected me a lot so there's obviously that. If you realize that when you are 33-34 it's not like you discover it when you are 20, there's a lot of ingrained shit that has become "familiar" so well, how would anyone heal that in a couple years without any help? it's not easy, but I'm in a recovery path and I'm trying, and that's something that sadly a lot of people cannot say

I would bet that some people end up marrying early, have children, and struggle to deal with these patterns which results it in impacting their children. Alternately, as social norms have changed and marriage (in the US and other Western countries) has become more often delayed by 5 years (there is hard data on this but I'm going from memory here) on average, there is more of a chance for people to pick up on unhealthy patterns before settling down and having kids. Women are able to work and maintain independence from men in a way that was far less common half a century ago. Borderline personality disorder tends to be more common in women as it manifests in female social traits (narcissism is more common in men as it manifests in male coded social traits).

I don't know if the word "infects" talking about personality disorder it's the proper word, in a way it's a virus but that doesn't mean that you get infected by the same "disease" it seems more like you get "infected" by a reaction but that reaction can be different, for example increased ADHD, chronic diseases (I have one) or anxious attachment (like I had, now much less, I think) .It's just so sad that I lived within this situation because sometimes it feels like I'm cursed not to have a proper relationship and that makes me feel so bad.

The good news is that complex trauma from this kind of stuff does tend to stabilize as we age, especially if we can mature and develop healthier relationships along the way, and are able to self-reflect on our own trauma. Repetition compulsion often works against this in a way since we are likely to cycle into and out of these familiar patterns, and we can also learn as we grow older and become more capable of recognizing toxic patterns and developing new skills.

Don't give up hope - the fact that you're talking about it and thinking about it suggests that you're on the right path. The biggest piece of advice I can give is to seek out partners with others who have also done work on themselves in this regard. The person in your original post was giving off mixed signals and that's the kind of stuff that can be so hard to avoid but is most likely to draw you in and hurt you. I hope you find someone who can appreciate you for the love you want to share and for the work you've done

 

[Neuroborean]

Of course - nor should you feel like you need to disclose any more than you feel comfortable doing.

I would bet that some people end up marrying early, have children, and struggle to deal with these patterns which results it in impacting their children. Alternately, as social norms have changed and marriage (in the US and other Western countries) has become more often delayed by 5 years (there is hard data on this but I'm going from memory here) on average, there is more of a chance for people to pick up on unhealthy patterns before settling down and having kids. Women are able to work and maintain independence from men in a way that was far less common half a century ago. Borderline personality disorder tends to be more common in women as it manifests in female social traits (narcissism is more common in men as it manifests in male coded social traits).

The good news is that complex trauma from this kind of stuff does tend to stabilize as we age, especially if we can mature and develop healthier relationships along the way, and are able to self-reflect on our own trauma. Repetition compulsion often works against this in a way since we are likely to cycle into and out of these familiar patterns, and we can also learn as we grow older and become more capable of recognizing toxic patterns and developing new skills.

Don't give up hope - the fact that you're talking about it and thinking about it suggests that you're on the right path. The biggest piece of advice I can give is to seek out partners with others who have also done work on themselves in this regard. The person in your original post was giving off mixed signals and that's the kind of stuff that can be so hard to avoid but is most likely to draw you in and hurt you. I hope you find someone who can appreciate you for the love you want to share and for the work you've done

Sometimes I feel I'm just not "made" for having healthy relationships, I even have that paranoid idea of most people being unhealthy, and strangely, when I talk to therapists or people who works in therapy they think that there's A LOT of people with attachment issues and/or personality disorders, so I feel that even if I have my own issues there's a very important part/dimension of luck/fate, and that luck it's what I don't trust a lot considering my last experiences. It's obvious that no one should think this way, that our fate it's written or something like that, but the reality is that there's people (always, in history of mankind) who end up alone and without a proper partner. I just hope I won't be any of those so I do care about doing my inner work to at least trying to attract the healthy partners and liking a good stable/healthy relationship. In a way I think of myself as "too old" for just starting to get some conclusions about my issues, root problems, etc, but on the other hand I don't feel (nor I look physically..) old in any way, so I guess it's just the time it is and there's no problem with that.
I realize nowadays that I was attracted to over-emotional people (because of my mother being over-emotional) and to super demanding people (for the same cause) so nowadays I just don't like that, but I don't want to start attracting the opposite (people who runs away/hide from their emotions, like avoidants..)
it's very difficult because I feel like a lot of people just sense some strange desperation on me, and it's not exactly "desperation" but I do long for a healthy relationship of love and support, as I went through a terrible emotional desert with the BPD girl and was psychologically abused and gaslight for years, so obviously now I really do want something to feel safe.

 

[kiely]

Make sure that there is a way that both can deal with life in a mature and a smart way. Be hopeful always to find that love and happiness in each other too.

Relationships and crushes just for that rush can be escapism. You are unhappy in your life for whatever reason and you build this fantasy person and or situation where you are happy. And sometimes it's not real. The person is not that perfect and you are in for a big disappointment. Deal with your life in a mature and smart way. Hope we all find love and happiness.

If there is something in your part of life that needs attention or work on that focus as well, or as a partnership keep that as an awareness. Do this by looking deep inside. Within. But you sound very perceptive. Try to focus. For anything. Anything that
can destroy relationships too. And is exactly what you sound like you have learned at this point and time. And this is positive that you are able to make such an effort.

Try not to have a relationship based on escapism and be as realistic with each other as possible. Don't just try to escape with someone and expect everything is going to be perfect. No one or anything ever is. It is just a speed bump that you work around.

Don't be in a relationship where there is ' acting out ' because that type of behavior is destructive. That can lead to burning out emotionally, financially and yeha even legally.

Take a deep breath and look into the sky. Meditate in the calmness. Stay alive. Bad relationships have potential to ruin lives.
Find peace and act on this. If it starts to be a destructive relationship, get out right away !! Or don't start that to begin with, sort of speak. Try to be well and stay well in relationships.

Sorry if you went through bad experiences. Work on yourself and also an other for the better. Stay calm and think it through. So that you won't have to go through something horrendous.

Believe me. Enter into everything with caution. Relationships can nearly kill people. Ruin their lives, their health, and MInd. It can drive someone insane. So don't let it. Learn what healthy can be and work with that. Therapy can then be necessary and then needed to help out.

Learn to recognise patterns from previous stress and traumatic situations. Look for things such as trauma. This can explain a lot too. Like somebody trying to escape from painful events. Study others lives and some advice's of others and remember what emotional hell can just be like. Don't get stuck in that loop.

I don't want to say only bad things, though why? It is the way of life that shows you that you are not honest though, if you don’t know what you want or you don’t respect your boundaries. If it hits you hard but then is .. definitely is a learning experience. The best way is to run immediately, but some don’t do that. We like the addiction, we don’t feel loved in our core. It then has to be the way of learning to live in the world without fantasies, which is too boring for many of us. True.

Don't seek a romantic relationship that is just a crush because ... you won't want your entire affair to be one big long lie.

Who really feels like this ?

Truly we are sometimes stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's all going to be okay.

Recognizing and being receptive to just a ' crush ' often begins with an unsettled feeling of unhappiness, routine, safety and stability. People come and go in your life. But the cosmos becomes visible when someone connects with your soul and you've been waiting unknowingly.

Wonderful. Please keep looking. Going on.

Find references and abilities that can be useful. Like look for clues that sometimes also related to a relationship OCD and thinking again and again obsessively. This could get to be a pattern that thinking that you have to be non monogamous when actually you might be thinking of and being scared of commitment due to past trauma. And that can be Profound.

What if you just have a crush on someone. And then complain to them about a horrible bad relationship that you have had or in fact have to be in. Horribly bad ideas, I know, it's a horrible idea flirting with someone for just an emotional crush or maybe a quick fix affair. Reciprocating the flirting aka emotional affair. Now you have to get your head all straight again. It is completely embarrassing and wrong to drag each other into a bad relationship. Or bad relationships as a repeat offender.

Don't feel trapped like so many do and now have to live with bad choices. PS it's REALLY difficult for a crush to avoid another crush object. It feels like cutting off your own arm somehow. Easy to see the experience as addiction but try the best to not have this situation to deal with.

Love is about mirroring, attunement and reciprocity. You see and respond to who the person is. Not who you wished they were in your mind, but who they are and your actual experiences with them. You have moments of genuine intimacy and connection. Crushes and temporary relationships that is just a fantasy can lead to nowhere. How much are you in your head telling yourself stories vs responding to what is actually happening.

You can be doing so very well before ' a ' crush ' object ' shows up. Find who you are yourself. Deep within. And then, that within another as well.

~~~~~~

Okay I am sorry I wrote all of this. And it is all based on feelings of observation. I really entirely do not have a clue in the slightest. I have been in a permanent ' relationship ' so to speak. And a long long scroll history, long story of it for forever now.

And I have no idea about ' looking ' for relationships or finding them. Because I am already involved as it is and as it goes.
Ups and downs, twists and turns, working and moving forward and being and doing the best possible solutions to stay healthy and safe. And stable. And of course financially grounded. Working through it all. Both Together. And will not and .. won't trade it for any other way. It is all we know in mine. And what ' we ' have. And we ain't trading it for anything or nothing at all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's it. lool.

I just wrote this down because I just wanted to express my feelings at this time. Also I had commented in this thread previously
but am just writing this all on the fly and wanted to just follow up on the comment I had replied to.
However, I do not have any clue about dating or this ... being as a temporary happenstance.
Will never want to. And I am never going to. And don't really grasp in that direction of a pathway anymore either. Hmmm.

I am so sorry that I butted in and just wanted to make some comments about that what seemed so interesting and intriguing. A lot like my own relationship dealing with it on a day to day basis and year to year that is just permanently something that I only know about really.

I just thought that it would be fun and a release to let out some of those thoughts and feelings just for the fun and to experience
looking at an outside perspective from my inside and personal views on a topic and that I am just showing up for. It is just thoughts and feelings ........ because I wouldn't really begin to know.

Awe. I feel your deep conflict and what seems that .. need to know and understand and experience. Make efforts to move forward and do this in the best way possible that you can. And look for all of the guidance then that you can. Think clearly and find that way to stay healthy and safe as you possibly can. And then I know you will be able to do this because you are seriously trying and definitely focused enough.

I have all the faith in the whole world for you. I just tried to write this for fun mostly. But I want it all to work out for you. And I just want it to work out for you for The Best and for the Best Always !!

Thnxxx.

 

[4DQSAR]

This Be The Verse​

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

-Philip Larkin