Assaulted or deserving?

[magicalchem]

But what about this part. Couldn't she have avoided the whole problem if she said no before this happened?

Somehow he gets my jeans unzipped, sliding his fingers all the way into me. And god it feels incredible. I'm not gonna lie. I am moaning with pleasure and grinding into his hand

 

[EA-1475]

^^^^ The most disturbing part of that is "Somehow he gets my jeans unzipped".

I ask. What. The. Fuck. Somehow? I mean, you don't know how he got your pants upzipped? I've been plenty drunk in my life but whenever my pants get unzipped, I usually have a pretty good idea of how it happened.
Now, you might be thinking "Hey, she's just using 'somehow' as a figure of speech. Like 'one thing led to another'"
But I get the feeling that the OP is using the somehow to mean "Hey, not that I had anything to do with it but..." As in, "Hey, not that I had anything to do with it but he gets my pants unzipped."
Surely there should be a little accountability here...

 

[alasdairm]

^ your true colours are showing supertrav...

if a woman wants to get fingered by a guy but does not want to have sex with him, allowing him to finger her is not a greenlight for intercourse. she said no. she was the victim of a crime.*

alasdair

* i'm trying hard to limit my opinion to the facts we've been given here. i could come up with loads of hypothetical situations and interpretations but it's not clear to me how that would have any value...

 

[IcarusRisen]

Ok, I'm going to use an analogy to describe my stance on the issue. In a perfect world, we would never have to worry about locking the door to our house when we leave. But, it's a fact of life that houses get robbed, and thus it's a good idea to lock your door when you leave your house, and at night when you go to sleep. However, it is not your fault if your house is robbed.

Similarly, it is a girl's responsibility to keep herself safe, but if something happens to her, it is not her fault. Were you deserving? Most certainly not. Was it assault? Well, I'm not sure, if you were sobbing as hard as you say you were, then most certainly, but I wasn't there.

You should definitely go see a counselor and try to get your life back on track. What matters now is not whether or not you were assaulted, it matters how you feel about the situation and you obviously FEEL assaulted. So go try to get some help and stop beating yourself up.

 

[facelessgirl]

assaulted or deserving

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=370982&page=5

^^^^ The most disturbing part of that is "Somehow he gets my jeans unzipped".

Myth: Rape requires physical force. Studies have shown that in the majority of rapes, the perpetrator does not use force which results in physical injuries (Green 1987; Weekley 1986). The threat of force and death and the intimidation inherent in gender stratification is sufficient. In reality many forms of covert coercion and force may be used in rape. It is the victim's fear of the assault and its outcome that
renders her passive, not compliant, and without consent. Since many victims of rape are also survivors of incest and other sexual abuse they may 'shut
down' their emotions and bodies at the onset of a rape; they learned this 'survival' behaviour as children (Lundberg-Love & Geffner 1989). Other women have been socialised not to be aggressive or assertive and their comparative lack of physical
strength may contribute to less of a willingness to fight back. Thus female passivity is a quite common response to male violence.


Myth: Rape requires physical resistance by the victim. This myth is unfortunately still accepted by segments of the criminal justice system. The survivor who does not evidence injuries which she acquired through resistance becomes the incredible victim. This image is a by-product of the previous myth which mandates physical force as an element of sexual assault. The reality is far different. Almost three-quarters of the victims in a Victorian phone-in reported that 'they felt an overwhelming sense of powerlessness'
Source

But what about this part. Couldn't she have avoided the whole problem if she said no before this happened

Myth: Since rape is primarily a sexual act, the victim in some way may precipitate the offence through arousing the male in some provocative manner. This erroneous belief has a serious impact on how people view the crime, the rapist and the victim. It also affects the survivor's view of herself. She often accepts self-blame since she has not succeeded in controlling the male's behaviour and has somehow provoked it (Carmody 1984). It is crucially important that this myth is dispelled since it also influences the response of the criminal justice system toward women. The woman is not responsible for her victimisation in any way.

Myth: Rape is a sexual act. This myth is reinforced by certain stereotypes about male sexuality such as men's alleged inability to control themselves if they are
aroused. These are false images. Rape is not a sexual act. Rape is an act of violence which uses sex as a weapon. Rape is motivated by aggression and by the desire to exert power and humiliate. Just as wife battering had to be taken out of the privacy of the home and criminalised in order to effect any change, rape must be taken
out of the sexual realm and placed where it rightfully belongs in the domain of violence against women.
Source



I am seriously not going to take the blame for this anymore. I realise now that I was assaulted and that my insecurities about what happened stem from the misconceptions about rape etc. that are passed on by society. To all those perpetuating the myths, I hope you get your facts straight for everyones sake. God help you if you ever end up in a similar situation.

Goldsmith (unpublished) estimates that based on 1991 Bureau of Crime Statistics figures and a 1:3 reporting rate, a woman in New South Wales has a one out of eight chance of being raped. Source
(Apparently Australia has a high incidence of rape)

If you have read the entire thread you'll see that I actually said no, not just once. I was clearly a distressed & unwilling participant. It wasn't because he was so horny that he needed to have his way, he was in a position to *finally* exploit my vulnerability & exert his power over me. I was too trusting and naive at the time to think that my so called mate would never hurt me, it never even entered my mind that he could. Now I have to trust again, grow as a person, learn from the experience and all that jazz.
It has been good to talk about it with you all & I thank those who have been supportive & kind to me. I honestly appreciate it.

Best wishes,

 

[magicalchem]

Perfect analogy.

Its is not your fault in both cases.

But if you left the door unlocked insurance would not cover the robbery.

And if you locked your door insurance would cover the robbery.

So it's still your fault that you wouldn't get coverage.

 

[Chaos Butterfly]

Anonymous reply merged in ^^^^^^^^^

 

[mooncaller]

I am seriously not going to take the blame for this anymore. I realise now that I was assaulted and that my insecurities about what happened stem from the misconceptions about rape etc. that are passed on by society. To all those perpetuating the myths, I hope you get your facts straight for everyones sake. God help you if you ever end up in a similar situation.


If you have read the entire thread you'll see that I actually said no, not just once. I was clearly a distressed & unwilling participant. It wasn't because he was so horny that he needed to have his way, he was in a position to *finally* exploit my vulnerability & exert his power over me. I was too trusting and naive at the time to think that my so called mate would never hurt me, it never even entered my mind that he could. Now I have to trust again, grow as a person, learn from the experience and all that jazz.
It has been good to talk about it with you all & I thank those who have been supportive & kind to me. I honestly appreciate it.

Best wishes,

I am genuinely happy to hear this best of luck to you.

 

[Paralogic]

None of this is your fault, im a guy and this kind of thing happened to me recently. Any ecstatic emotion you felt is a defense mechanism (I took this out of a pamphlet). I really hate it when men try to say that you were "leading them on", thats retarded because no means NO. If he gets offended by it and keeps goin, hes most likely a closet case because a real man doesnt do that. Dont drink too much anymore, and protect yourself. Let all the fucked in the head guys know what happens when they try to take advantage of someone, because they in my humble opinion deserve death. The law might screw you over on this one like it did me; but a sick mind is a curse and one day he will do that again to the wrong person and end up dickless. If you want to talk my AIM is P4RAL0G1C, I wont come on to you or anything I just really hate men after what happened to me and you probably do too.

Dont feel embarassed, you are beautiful and you should feel safe in this world. Getting drunk is just an excuse, its all bullshit because he remembers everything I bet because you remember everything. This wasnt some drunken night at a party, this was a crime and he could have potentially given you an STD like I got. Im a virgin too, so it might not be my place to say things like this but I honestly believe that girls go through way toooo much fuckin bullshit nowadays. There will be blood in this life or the next sista, remember your a woman and you are the power of man. He did this to you out of jealousy, because he knows you rule and see a world that he will never understand because of his self inflicted sickness. Dont let the world take away your freedom, its all in your mind and you are sooo strong and brave to even come out anonymously. Justice will be served with God as my witness, stay strong for all of us. PLUR Donna, Sandy, and I will keep you on our minds .

 

[mewithoutyou]

All I have to say is to the people saying its her fault, youre wrong. Just because she was enjoying being fingered doesnt mean she ahs to have sex with him.

The story she tells does not matter. It does not matter they were drunk, it does not matter he fingered her. All that matters is when it came time that he wanted sex, she said no and he continued. SHE SAID NO. That is the only thing that should matter. It is sexual assault.

How many times do people engage in mutual masturbation or oral without actually having sex?!

The point here is she said no and he should have stopped. No matter how drunk someone is they still know what no means. It is her choice anyways, if a guy is in the middle of having sex with someone and they decide they no longer want it and tell them to stop, they should. Otherwise, the guy is a little fucked up in the head. To conintue having sex with someone, no matter where in the sexual encounter you are, when someone says no or stop, it should end. If consent is no longer there it becomes some sort of sexual assault. A person always has the right to deny having sex.

In no way is it the girls fault. For people saying she put herself in the situation, thats a fucked up thing to say. It should not be a harmful thing to have a few drinks with someone. She did not know all that was going to happen. And she did not know making out was going to lead to sex. How many times has a friend or yourself gotten drunk with the intention of making out with someone, but had no intentions of it going further.

Saying she put herself in this sitaution is ridiculous..
What if I was dressed in an outfit that intentionally shows off the curves and best parts of my body at a party and I was harmlessly flirting with a guy all night, Well I thought it was harmless, he decides my flirting means much more and that the way I am dressed means I must be trying to get some, he rapes me. Is that too my fault?

It is never someones fault if they are sexually assaulted man or woman. No means No and Stop means Stop. If the man or woman you are with doesnt listen, it is now some type of assault. No one chooses that for themselves, they are having it forced upon them, regardless the situation.

 

[bromance]

I am seriously not going to take the blame for this anymore. I realise now that I was assaulted and that my insecurities about what happened stem from the misconceptions about rape etc. that are passed on by society. To all those perpetuating the myths, I hope you get your facts straight for everyones sake. God help you if you ever end up in a similar situation.

If you have read the entire thread you'll see that I actually said no, not just once. I was clearly a distressed & unwilling participant. It wasn't because he was so horny that he needed to have his way, he was in a position to *finally* exploit my vulnerability & exert his power over me. I was too trusting and naive at the time to think that my so called mate would never hurt me, it never even entered my mind that he could. Now I have to trust again, grow as a person, learn from the experience and all that jazz.
It has been good to talk about it with you all & I thank those who have been supportive & kind to me. I honestly appreciate it.

Best wishes,

Good for you. Best wishes from here on out!

 

[inotocracy]

Interesting article that relates:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/crime/bal-te.md.rape17apr17,0,5827288,full.story

 

[ccm]

Gold stars to Mooncaller, Bromance, ChemicalOne, and most of all you, facelessgirl. What happened to you fits the legal definition of RAPE. You said no. He did it anyway. This constitutes sexual assault, because you did not (and furthermore, were unable to by accepted legal standards) provide consent - and that isn't my opinion, it is the law in the OP's jurisdiction.

I find it unconscionable that anyone who posts regularly on a message board related to reducing harm or potential harm from the use of illicit substances could jump down the throat of a person who made a mistake that put themselves in harm's way by getting intoxicated. An analysis of the OP's situation reveals that she did not violate the law by getting drunk, and since the event occurred in private, there is no issue as to public intoxication.

She did not want to be penetrated by the guy's penis. He penetrated her despite her pleas not to. He committed rape.

DFRS: I'll address your point that you find "freezing up" hard to understand with the explanation that many victims of rape/sexual assault/general assault, battery/any violent crime report after the fact that they believe they saved their own lives by submitting to the lesser attack of rape so they would not get murdered. Not to equate the two, but would you rather have someone rob you of your purse or your life in the abstract?

I certainly understand the reasoning behind why one would submit to being raped rather than subject themselves to further angering an attacker to the point of murder. If I were ever raped, I would fight back if I was capable, but I would not fight to the death unless it was the rapist's death. There are many people who are larger, stronger, and more violent than I am. It is my duty to protect myself by any means necessary. This does not exclude submission to a lesser attack to avoid a greater attack. If a 6'3" ex-felon who was building his muscles in prison, by way of example, were to get out and I crossed his path while walking past the many dark alleys I pass when I leave work at night, I would submit in an effort to preserve my life. Without any question. And I would try to block it out of my mind as much as possible so as to lead some semblance of a normal life, to marry, to have children, to not hate sex, to not be looking over my shoulder constantly. No doubt it would take intensive therapy in the best case scenario.

In a court case, the burden of proof is on the people/prosecution/plaintiff, but the victim is represented by all the people of their community/state/country/jurisdiction. Rape is a crime against everyone and all of society. Rape is a violent act, even if she let him "finger" her. Rape is a felony where I live. Rape directly violates another person's (regardless of sex or gender) right to control their own body and who puts what in it.

And if one is capable of rape, a felony (in my jurisdiction and I believe in Aus as well - citation needed), it is not a stretch for a reasonable person to extrapolate that they *may well* also be capable of the felony of murder. Google "felony murder" for further explanation should you require it.

Society cannot send the message that it accepts violent crime by blaming the victim. No means no. How many of the people that would blame the victim have not told someone else to "fuck off" under other uncomfortable circumstances? Or, for that matter, would not do so if placed similarly?

Ever told off a friend? Ever bitched out your parents by rebelling against or sassing them? Guess what: that's nothing compared with a felonious act. Wait, do I see a tattoo or piercing? Do you do drugs? Do you smoke cigarettes or drink?

The only blame for rape lies with the rapist, though the courts propound otherwise. Not enough evidence to prove beyond the high standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" merely means that there wasn't enough evidence. It does not negate that the perpetrator violated another human being in a very destructive way.

I'd rather feed a rapist gruel for the rest of their life and let them rot in a filthy priso cell than spend another of my tax dollars on the war in Iraq.

And a gold star to you, too!

 

[ccm]

i understand your point, and i agree. however i'm not talking about a guy with a crush that's open to a mutually desired progression from friends to lovers. i'm referring to predatory opportunists (which are shockingly common) and this is the category i believe this particular creep falls into.

if any of you reading this feel you're entitled to sex because the girl has given it up elsewhere to other guys, or because you've "put in your time", or because you somehow weaseled your way into a drunken make-out session, you probably belong to this nasty group as well. you are no friend to a woman. the guy in question was no friend either.

I find the above to be pitifully true. Most of my male "friends" were hanging out, "putting in their time," until they hopefully caught me at a vulnerable, lonely, and/or intoxicated moment. I call that predatory, and I call that opportunist.

Women are entitled to change their mind at any point during intimacy. And pardon women if thye get horny and turned on by touch, particularly when drinking. does not justify rape.

Faceless, does some of the responsibility for what happened fall on your shoulders? Yes. Was it your fault? No, and trying to determine if it was or not is useless. Did you deserve to get assaulted? No, of course not. Did you have the right to say no? Yes. Now you need to move ahead, and talk to someone you can trust so you can work towards healing.

Take care.

 

[NeoMeeko]

All I have to say is to the people saying its her fault, youre wrong. Just because she was enjoying being fingered doesnt mean she ahs to have sex with him.

The story she tells does not matter. It does not matter they were drunk, it does not matter he fingered her. All that matters is when it came time that he wanted sex, she said no and he continued. SHE SAID NO. That is the only thing that should matter. It is sexual assault.

How many times do people engage in mutual masturbation or oral without actually having sex?!

The point here is she said no and he should have stopped. No matter how drunk someone is they still know what no means. It is her choice anyways, if a guy is in the middle of having sex with someone and they decide they no longer want it and tell them to stop, they should. Otherwise, the guy is a little fucked up in the head. To conintue having sex with someone, no matter where in the sexual encounter you are, when someone says no or stop, it should end. If consent is no longer there it becomes some sort of sexual assault. A person always has the right to deny having sex.

In no way is it the girls fault. For people saying she put herself in the situation, thats a fucked up thing to say. It should not be a harmful thing to have a few drinks with someone. She did not know all that was going to happen. And she did not know making out was going to lead to sex. How many times has a friend or yourself gotten drunk with the intention of making out with someone, but had no intentions of it going further.

Saying she put herself in this sitaution is ridiculous..
What if I was dressed in an outfit that intentionally shows off the curves and best parts of my body at a party and I was harmlessly flirting with a guy all night, Well I thought it was harmless, he decides my flirting means much more and that the way I am dressed means I must be trying to get some, he rapes me. Is that too my fault?

It is never someones fault if they are sexually assaulted man or woman. No means No and Stop means Stop. If the man or woman you are with doesnt listen, it is now some type of assault. No one chooses that for themselves, they are having it forced upon them, regardless the situation.

GTF.


No means no, end of story. People can enjoy physical contact and still not want to have sex. She said no, he pressed on, and for that, he is a piece of shit and I hope karma gets him.

To the OP... please keep your head up, and please message me if you ever need to vent! **hugs**