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Artificial feeling?

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tesknota88

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Oct 26, 2009
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The most interesting argument I hear against drug use is that the feelings obtained from drugs are "artifcial", and this is somehow morally wrong.

Well, what makes a feeling "real"?

I believe the mind creates a lot of illusions on it's own and drugs have the potential to break us free from those illusions. Drugs can unlock higher or lower levels of consciousness.

I don't think there is any way to measure what is "real". What is considered "real" is usually the consensus, the public opinion...probably the group most likely to be wrong.

what are your thoughts about drug-induced states being called "artificial"?
 
I would say artificial drugs are ones like opiates. For the time your on them theyll remove your problems and make you feel extremely happy. At the end of the experience reality comes crashing back and your returned back to where you were before. Drugs like those dont help you with anything only produce "artificial" feelings of well being for while your on them.
 
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"Real" feelings of well-being are also temporary and can easily come to an end.

When I am high, the feelings are subjectively real.

It is true that some drugs (like alcohol or benzos) cloud your mind while others can expand it (like mushrooms or LSD).

(Just trying to stimulate some conversation)
 
Words like "artificial" are so subjective when used to describe drugs, I think any difference people think they can tell is placebo (with the obvious exception of genuinely toxic-feeling drugs, which definitely give that vibe of "fake"). I find it hard to believe that anyone on LSD thinks it's anything but natural, or marks against it because it's artificial.
 
Many drugs mimic the action of our natural body chemistry, such as opioids binding to opioid receptors the same way endogenous endorphins do. That is why it feels so natural and real. I think what separates the real from fake here is the fact that the opiate action was forced rather than naturally occuring after, say, a workout. Is it morally wrong to force that opiate rush?

That begs another question. If it's not okay to do drugs for the purpose of feeling good, then why is it often considered okay to take psychiatric drugs for the same reason?
 
The whole "drug feelings are artificial" arguement is bullshit. I've had more 'real' feeling feelings on drugs than sober. But I'm a pretty dry person when I'm sober.
 
I don't have time to type all my thoughts on the subject, as there are many as I both agree and disagree. But all I can really say in my opinion alcohol is probably the most artificial drug I've experienced personally. MDMA on the other hand, well that could a huge arguement.
 
!_MDMA_! said:
drugs are artificial. what you feel on them is not.
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I like that.

But I often do feel like drug feelings are artificial. Maybe just one too many lectures in 7th grade health class got to me. But feelings on drugs seem so real while I'm high and the next few days, but very soon they become a distant reality I can't reach without the drug again (referring mostly to psychs)
 
Our body makes many endogenous chemicals that can be intoxicating. Some "intoxicated" feelings might be love, orgasms, listening to/making music, mania, extreme anger, panic attacks, phobias. A sober mind is capable of experiencing sensations that are just as intense and as drug-induced states.

I'm wondering if the alleged artificiality of drugs makes them unethical?
 
It depends on which drugs you take, really.

Synthetic drugs feel very artificial. The high from them just seems... forced. The body doesn't like this awkwardness, so hangover is usually present. These include: MDMA, PCP, DXM, Amphetamines.

Drugs that have been growing on earth since the beginning of humanity certainly don't feel artificial: DMT, Psilocybin, Cannabis, Opium, Cocaine, feel very clean and do not produce next day hangovers. And afterall, what is so artificial about consuming plants? And these are the drugs that are chemically closer to the drugs our body produces on its own.
 
arthunter888 said:
It depends on which drugs you take, really.

Synthetic drugs feel very artificial. The high from them just seems... forced. The body doesn't like this awkwardness, so hangover is usually present. These include: MDMA, PCP, DXM, Amphetamines.

Drugs that have been growing on earth since the beginning of humanity certainly don't feel artificial: DMT, Psilocybin, Cannabis, Opium, Cocaine, feel very clean and do not produce next day hangovers. And afterall, what is so artificial about consuming plants? And these are the drugs that are chemically closer to the drugs our body produces on its own.
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this is a bullshit argument,

take some lsd then tell me its artificial or forced
 
arthunter888 said:
It depends on which drugs you take, really.

Synthetic drugs feel very artificial. The high from them just seems... forced. The body doesn't like this awkwardness, so hangover is usually present. These include: MDMA, PCP, DXM, Amphetamines.

Drugs that have been growing on earth since the beginning of humanity certainly don't feel artificial: DMT, Psilocybin, Cannabis, Opium, Cocaine, feel very clean and do not produce next day hangovers. And afterall, what is so artificial about consuming plants? And these are the drugs that are chemically closer to the drugs our body produces on its own.
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this is nonsense opium most certainly has a comedown as does cocaine-even pure if you do enough you feel shit when its gone.

this arguement is so stupid
 
The only drug I would call an artificial feeling is MDMA. Alot of people tend to fall in love based on getting high off that. The feeling itself isnt artificial its the way you respond to it that makes it wrong. If you can use that "I love her" feeling and turn it into a great connection and friendship its better. If it becomes that ackward "i love her" and you get all weird because of it it ends up being worse then how it was.

But hey thats just this guys observation.

Also that natural arguement is B.S alcohol is natural.
 
there are so many different ways of defining "natural" and "artificial" that the statement is a non-sequitor.
 
Opiates may be a short term solution to life problems, but since life is just a series of random events, and the only thing I am searching for in life is a bit of peace and happiness when I'm not collecting honey for the hive, opiate happiness feels real to me. :)
 
Our bodies act synergistically with drugs to produce new feelings. There really is no way to prove if any feeling, sober or drug-induced, is real. "Real" vs. "fake" is entirely subjective and depends on the mind as much as it depends on the environment influencing that mind. I think some drugs, such as mushrooms, and even meditation or hypnosis, shut off my ego and biases, making my perception of the world more "authentic" and less clouded by my mind's natural functions.

A classic philisophical argument comes to mind. "How do I know that "blueness" is the same for you as it is for me?" referring of course to the experience of seeing the color blue. Experiences can't be fully defined.
 
"Real vs. Fake" is very ambiguous when talking about drugs effects. If you are talking in a physiological context, then drugs that are more closely related to the drugs the body naturally produces (endogenous drugs) would produce feelings more "real" (as in closer to what we naturally experience). The only exact match I could think of here is N,N-DMT, because our brain endogenously produces N,N-DMT. A somewhat? match would be opiates, because they are similar to endorphins, like when finishing a workout you get a mild opiate-ish rush.

"I believe the mind creates a lot of illusions on it's own and drugs have the potential to break us free from those illusions. Drugs can unlock higher or lower levels of consciousness."

In this context, I would say the most 'truth-revealing' drugs are N,N-DMT, and Psilocybin. There is nothing that shows you what your life REALLY is than a good DMT or shroom trip. These are destroyers of illusions.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that N,N-DMT does not make you 'hallucinate', but rather allows you to perceive higher dimensions that ACTUALLY EXIST (parallel universes? the fabric of space-time? the place we go when we die and leave our bodies? A magnified version of OUR universe?).

The reason I believe this is that it is believed by many scientist that DMT is produced in the pineal gland. And astonishingly, the pineal gland is a SENSORY organ. Therefore, I think our brain either [needed it at one point in the past] or [will need sometime in the future] in order to perceive 'something' (whatever this place/content is). It's no mystery that evolution dictates that some bodily functions need to be INACTIVATED when no longer needed, or ACTIVATED when needed.

Because of how chemically close DMT is to Serotonin (Serotonin is a sort of regulator of the extent of reality that we experience--in my view), only a small gene mutation would be needed to fully activate our DMT glands such that we actively use it in everyday perception.

Another interesting thing is that Terence Mckenna consistently reported that the DMT entities persuaded him to "create objects with your voice," that syntax is what matter is made of. Well, the currently accepted theory of matter is string theory--that all matter is composed of vibrations (and what is a voice but a vibration that can be heard?).

^ I think the entities in the DMT dimension might be teaching us how to create/manipulate matter with a certain type of language (that needs to be mastered first), or simply that our experience of reality is bound to language. These are just speculations, but what I do believe is that there is something more behind tryptamine consciousness than what we do or can understand at the moment. I think the function of tryptamine consciousness will be explained/utilized in the future after the next (internal) human evolutionary event when we have the technology/knowledge to do so.
 
Our natural chemical make-up is a product of evolution. It was useful for our survival, but ultimately an accident that happened to work.
 
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