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article on 'psychedelics and time distortion'

GRIJZEKAK

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Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
16
I have made an article considering the topic that a lot of great insights of fysics were inspired, or at least show great resemblance with, the psychedelic experience. for those interested : www.travelingthroughspaceandtime.com/psychedelics.html. so is this bollocks or do i make a point?
if someone is interested in mutual linking (only if your websites topic is related to my website), send me an email at [email protected]
 
lol, 'grijze kak' as in grey poop?

Anyway I very much like to discuss metaphysical concepts and relations with psychedelic experiences or certain scientific fields, but in your article complex subjects are briefly touched on the merit that you detect certain echoes in psychedelic descriptions and physical theories. That's great, but if you don't really go into it and explain it then it doesn't really "stick", there is a tendency for trippers who are 'frequent flyers' to fantasize about and try to connect such complexities and start to see a bigger picture. A picture that fits it all together, worm holes, space-time relativity theory, psychedelics and many other things.

It's a classic ambition to try and come up with certain unifying concepts and I can't say whether you're onto something or not because the article is short and deals with subjects only ever so briefly.

I suggest thinking of one relation to begin with and really focus the hell out of it with a sceptical view until you either discover that it was just vague and unsubstantiated or get to a real point. It remains unclear to me here.

So, are you from the Netherlands then? I suppose I can send you a mail one time or another. :)

it's "psilocybin" by the way.
 
Yes grey shit is the translation! :D (belgium)
Research did note enhanced creativity and visual overstimulation. It is not so strange I think to hypothesize that you can see things which are invisible to others. But I will try to be more precise. thanks for the spelling check! : )

But anyway, mind you, I noted a CORRELATION, not a CAUSATION. There is definitely a positive correlation between what is seen in psychedlic experiences and the notion of relative time, fractals and going through wormholes!
Also note that I mainly asked questions, or made some suggestions. I did not say anything like: psychedelics WILL allow you to travel to another dimension.

But interestingly: how would one test such a theory, IF it was explicitly made (i did make one implicitly) ? and how can I less vague, about a very vague subject?
plus you can't expect everyone to do experiments, before they publish out a theory, or even just some interesting thoughts.

What do you think I should talk about more? the unified field theory?
 
Does the overexcitation of our visual neurons allow us to see reality more clearly, and LESS distorted? What I mean is, could it be that when our visual system gets overaroused, we actually see dimensions of reality which we would otherwise ignore, because it is highly unadaptive in our everyday world?

See this is mainly the implicit theory: -overstimulation of visual cortex => seeing more stuff=> more insight in fysical phenomenon

experiencing severe time distortion on acid => making a theory of relativity

The point is mainly: they can facilitate great insights.

As you see above, it's all questions. but it would be highly interesting if we talked about if this is possible.
 
While it can be true that "you will face all your inner demons" while tripping, this happens only some times, and is not necessarily a bad thing.
Just because a person has taken psychadelics, does NOT mean they would make a good trip sitter.
Also, if I am at work, and time is going by reeeeallllly slowly, does that mean I am in a worm hole or travelling through time? What about people who DON'T use drugs and experience these types of phenomenen?
I have a few more issues with your article, but I don't feel like typing it out. I am really not trying to be mean. I'm glad you are thinking about stuff like this.

"fysical"--i think you mean physical or physics. Although this is more of a language issue.
 
Now it sounds much better! You make some valid points..I have no doubt that the ideas you raise have some truth to them. Its just of matter of proving it to the people who have no psychedelic experience. Whats truly sad it that some people just close their eyes to the truth these medicines can reveal. It's a matter of faith, I guess. I never though Id hear myself saying that. I have always need physical proof to believe in something. Since taking certain medicines I have been a lot more receptive to the occult and believe in things I never would have otherwise. I just "know" it to be true.
 
I wanted to ad Watson and Crick (inventors of DNA) were on acid when they invented dna, but it was kinda off topic :D:D
 
can't seem to find the article, but i can tell you it has been more than a year since i read it .
 
Yeah I'd like that source as well. :)

About vision on a (sub)atomic level: The human eye is a pretty great sensory organ but I really don't believe that it is constructed so well that electromagnetic waves in the visible spectrum that are emitted by molecules, molecules that move about at an absolutely incredible speed that no brain should be able to keep up with, are refracted perfectly onto the light detecting parts of our corneae.
One thing that I have experienced myself that I do find explainable is that on a fierce dose of LSD more than one time I have lost my concepts of color and saw everything as vibrating energy. I am not saying I could see any kind of vibration slow enough to see any amplitude but it seems as if a part of my brain did not attach meaning or differentiation of color anymore while I could still see that there were differences. What I did see was the same as what I have seen many times eyes closed, which is a sort of golden energy which I take to be pure brain activity. I have no evidence whatsoever for this, but it makes sense to me that when multiple regions of the brain are communicating without the translation / swithboxes or inhibition of cross-over activity (which IIRC is also what happens with synaesthesia) what you get is a sort of universal brain language so to speak. It cannot be interpreted correctly because it is unified and crossing over. While normally brain regions handling separate functions use their own symbolic language on a neurological level, it is like all barriers dissolve between these regions and there is just this chatter and the brain is awash with patterns. And if there is one thing that many of us know from psychedelic experiences it's patterns!

About time perception: It's best to start at the beginning and ask how it is facilitated, what meaning time bears to us as a construct (some say an illusion, which may just be a matter of semantics).
Is it not the relationship we see between subsequent events? Think about how 5 minutes can pass in a flash if you are doing something fun or interesting but it can seem to last an eternity if you are waiting on something, especially if you are in a hurry as if your life depends on it!
That would be compression or dilation. When you are waiting for something the reason for the dilation can perhaps be found in the psychological state of your impatience. Thoughts happen very very quickly compared to 5 minutes or even a second so if you are constantly thinking: "when will the time be up?!... when?... when?.... when when when?" you have compressed thoughts and therefore experience of time is dilated.
In a state of 'fight or flight' or a degree of stress your adrenaline goes up and you are apparently able to compress thoughts as well as actions, isn't that true? The evolutionary use should be obvious as well.
Now take psychedelic experiences. It isn't adrenaline that goes up but I think neurological transduction can, as a result of reinforcement of serotonergic activity. Whether what I just said is kosher or not, I think we can agree that you can get a storm of thoughts - some kind of increased activity that, as at the very least my own experiences tell me, can often compress thinking. That seems to explain the experience of time dilation.

The reverse can also happen with psychedelics but seems to be a little less often and may require resolution of thoughts, patterns of thought or certain ego mechanisms that preoccupies most people naturally. If a balance is achieved, followed by acceptance and subsequently even surrender, more and more dilation of experience can happen... and as a result compression of time. I have felt ego dissolution and the time flew by in some respect because there was nothing there in that time. But it can also feel not like time flew by but like it didn't exist, was irrelevant or meaningless. It felt like ages and a few seconds at the same time, because there was so little 'me' experiencing things that a frame of reference was lost.

I cannot account for things like synchronicity or the experience of looped or circular time (psychedelics + nitrous tends to cause this for me), or a parallel rather than a linear timeline (such as ketamine can produce), not off the top of my head.
But I would look for explanations a little closer to home... even so, what I wrote in this post still bears the correlation, as you correctly put it, to the space-time continuum that seems undetachable from human consciousness. There is a connection, but if you pose a question, make the question less vague to force the subject to be as well. This allows for an explanation that I call 'close enough to home' to answer reasonably.

I still feel you are trying to solve too large puzzles too fast and like I said before in other words my suggestion is: cut the puzzle into smaller puzzles and solve those.
No idea what you think of my view on the experience of time but I consider it a smaller puzzle. Go at it like that and you can connect smaller puzzles into a bigger one after that, and a bigger one after that.

Though if you want to make a huge leap like Einstein don't let me hold you back, please! :)
I just think you're being over-ambitious, just like my own approach was a few years back. Sometimes I got a compelling idea or a hint towards one out of it, that was fascinating but no more than that. Dial back and you get more done. :D
 
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Yeah I'd like that source as well. :)

About vision on a (sub)atomic level: The human eye is a pretty great sensory organ but I really don't believe that it is constructed so well that electromagnetic waves in the visible spectrum that are emitted by molecules, molecules that move about at an absolutely incredible speed that no brain should be able to keep up with, are refracted perfectly onto the light detecting parts of our corneae.
One thing that I have experienced myself that I do find explainable is that on a fierce dose of LSD more than one time I have lost my concepts of color and saw everything as vibrating energy. I am not saying I could see any kind of vibration slow enough to see any amplitude but it seems as if a part of my brain did not attach meaning or differentiation of color anymore while I could still see that there were differences. What I did see was the same as what I have seen many times eyes closed, which is a sort of golden energy which I take to be pure brain activity. I have no evidence whatsoever for this, but it makes sense to me that when multiple regions of the brain are communicating without the translation / swithboxes or inhibition of cross-over activity (which IIRC is also what happens with synaesthesia) what you get is a sort of universal brain language so to speak. It cannot be interpreted correctly because it is unified and crossing over. While normally brain regions handling separate functions use their own symbolic language on a neurological level, it is like all barriers dissolve between these regions and there is just this chatter and the brain is awash with patterns. And if there is one thing that many of us know from psychedelic experiences it's patterns!

About time perception: It's best to start at the beginning and ask how it is facilitated, what meaning time bears to us as a construct (some say an illusion, which may just be a matter of semantics).
Is it not the relationship we see between subsequent events? Think about how 5 minutes can pass in a flash if you are doing something fun or interesting but it can seem to last an eternity if you are waiting on something, especially if you are in a hurry as if your life depends on it!
That would be compression or dilation. When you are waiting for something the reason for the dilation can perhaps be found in the psychological state of your impatience. Thoughts happen very very quickly compared to 5 minutes or even a second so if you are constantly thinking: "when will the time be up?!... when?... when?.... when when when?" you have compressed thoughts and therefore experience of time is dilated.
In a state of 'fight or flight' or a degree of stress your adrenaline goes up and you are apparently able to compress thoughts as well as actions, isn't that true? The evolutionary use should be obvious as well.
Now take psychedelic experiences. It isn't adrenaline that goes up but I think neurological transduction can, as a result of reinforcement of serotonergic activity. Whether what I just said is kosher or not, I think we can agree that you can get a storm of thoughts - some kind of increased activity that, as at the very least my own experiences tell me, can often compress thinking. That seems to explain the experience of time dilation.

The reverse can also happen with psychedelics but seems to be a little less often and may require resolution of thoughts, patterns of thought or certain ego mechanisms that preoccupies most people naturally. If a balance is achieved, followed by acceptance and subsequently even surrender, more and more dilation of experience can happen... and as a result compression of time. I have felt ego dissolution and the time flew by in some respect because there was nothing there in that time. But it can also feel not like time flew by but like it didn't exist, was irrelevant or meaningless. It felt like ages and a few seconds at the same time, because there was so little 'me' experiencing things that a frame of reference was lost.

I cannot account for things like synchronicity or the experience of looped or circular time (psychedelics + nitrous tends to cause this for me), or a parallel rather than a linear timeline (such as ketamine can produce), not off the top of my head.
But I would look for explanations a little closer to home... even so, what I wrote in this post still bears the correlation, as you correctly put it, to the space-time continuum that seems undetachable from human consciousness. There is a connection, but if you pose a question, make the question less vague to force the subject to be as well. This allows for an explanation that I call 'close enough to home' to answer reasonably.

I still feel you are trying to solve too large puzzles too fast and like I said before in other words my suggestion is: cut the puzzle into smaller puzzles and solve those.
No idea what you think of my view on the experience of time but I consider it a smaller puzzle. Go at it like that and you can connect smaller puzzles into a bigger one after that, and a bigger one after that.

Though if you want to make a huge leap like Einstein don't let me hold you back, please! :)
I just think you're being over-ambitious, just like my own approach was a few years back. Sometimes I got a compelling idea or a hint towards one out of it, that was fascinating but no more than that. Dial back and you get more done. :D

I respect your comments. they are wise : )
 
wouldn't it be possible to rewire our brain to not pervieve objects, but instead a field of subatomic particles? our brains are adjusted to the stone age, where we had to hunt, and therefore see moving objects as different from the environment.
 
That's great, but if you don't really go into it and explain it then it doesn't really "stick", there is a tendency for trippers who are 'frequent flyers' to fantasize about and try to connect such complexities and start to see a bigger picture. A picture that fits it all together, worm holes, space-time relativity theory, psychedelics and many other things.

It's a classic ambition to try and come up with certain unifying concepts and I can't say whether you're onto something or not because the article is short and deals with subjects only ever so briefly.

+1 Well said
 
they invented dna, huh? they had a time machine too i see.
now you're dealing with a paradox though.
or was that your intention?

time machine? i wanted to reply to the other guy that said psychedelics can be a medicine and to say that it can facilitate insights
 
lol, 'grijze kak' as in grey poop?

Anyway I very much like to discuss metaphysical concepts and relations with psychedelic experiences or certain scientific fields, but in your article complex subjects are briefly touched on the merit that you detect certain echoes in psychedelic descriptions and physical theories. That's great, but if you don't really go into it and explain it then it doesn't really "stick", there is a tendency for trippers who are 'frequent flyers' to fantasize about and try to connect such complexities and start to see a bigger picture. A picture that fits it all together, worm holes, space-time relativity theory, psychedelics and many other things.

It's a classic ambition to try and come up with certain unifying concepts and I can't say whether you're onto something or not because the article is short and deals with subjects only ever so briefly.

I suggest thinking of one relation to begin with and really focus the hell out of it with a sceptical view until you either discover that it was just vague and unsubstantiated or get to a real point. It remains unclear to me here.

So, are you from the Netherlands then? I suppose I can send you a mail one time or another. :)

it's "psilocybin" by the way.

I have changed the emailadress, if you wanted to mail me. [email protected]
 
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