Are the mainstream "dumb" people actually the smartest?

[bongdong]

Look, i don't have a lot to say on this.

I haven't rolled around in bed contemplating it.

Let's start with assuming intelligence is based on your intelligence quotient.

Someone with a high IQ could be over rotating on a quantum problem (IDK what quantum means). Or stuck trying to compare two unrelated entities.

Meanwhile someone with a low IQ is blankly staring at something orange, hoping to god it changes purple. It doesn't, so he moves on to fucking his dog without a second thought. It feels good. Yeah, man. Real good. Then he lays down and falls asleep in 5 minutes. No worries at all.

I do think those who can't find relation between a fence and a anchor to be more "intelligent" beings. Why? Because they are more present.

IMO, they tend to live more in the moment.

And that, IMO, is an art.

Edit: who's closer to enlightenment now?

Shit, I have rolled around in bed thinking about this. What does that say about me?

First, to your question resp. your thread title: No, because being actually stupid is not a smart move or intelligent decision one makes for whatever reason. It looks more like a condition you happen to find yourself in (whether you yourself realize it or not).

Well, intelligence is a pretty overcharged term and I stop myself going on a rant here. I think this also touches on many other things, like 'free will', determinism, ideology, all sorts of definitions etc. I don't plan on going into either. What you seem to imply in your OP is that "intelligent people" are more likely to be unhappy etc., cause of their ability to engage in complex thought, compared to "stupid folks" who lack the former and are therefore more present in the moment, therefore more content, living life more artfully, "more enlightened".

In a way, I would agree with that. I do think that the unobserved mind is one hell of trouble-making-machine! Just look around. But I think there is a distinction to make: The Forrest Gump -type person is simple and content because he/she doesn't have the capacity to get lost in mind structures. The so called "intelligent" person, which can, but howsoever comes to realize its futility might be able to transcent compulsive thinking/identification with mind and becomes simple and content for that reason. The latter looks like a prefereable, or more advanced if you will, position to me. But what's need for that? Who can do/achieve that and is it a (smart) choice in the first place? Questions over questions.. , and then some.

I fear one needs to have a little background on Krishnamurti to understand that, but what the heck. Although not totally, I certainly gravitate towards thinking that he was quite right with that:

Intelligence comes into being when the mind discovers its fallibility, when it discovers what it is capable of, and what it is not. (J. Krishnamurti)

 

[JessFR]

It's tough being dumb.

I doubt they like it. Many are poor, underfed, overworked.

I guess if we are talking about the small percentage of the population who are essentially lobotomized, then yea I guess they wouldn't be unhappy, they certainly aren't happy.

Regarding IQ: it's losing its luster even in intellectual and academic circles wherein emotional intelligence is replacing it. Those who are able to empathize, understand, and utilize these abilities to further their goals and the goals of their community/business/family.

Even as far as intelligence goes, IQ just doesn't measure a lot of shit we would usually consider indications of intelligence. It wasn't really designed to be used as an all purpose measure of objective intelligence the way people use it in practice.

 

[RedRum OG]

Story time

I once worked in a food truck. The orders came out a window about 5 feet off the ground, which is a very hard height for most people to grab hot food from, especially women/short people. Our boss made a bright orange platform with a step out of wood, with sandpaper for grip on top, and put it right below the window. It was easy to step up, safe, stable, and big, about 5' x 4'. It was impossible to miss, and almost impossible to reach the window without getting on it.

We would set the order down on the edge of the window when ready and call their name. I watched thousands and thousands of customers get on their tippy toes, lean over the step, reach one hand waaaaay out, and sort of wait for me to stick their order all the way out there and hand it to them. Without a hint of exaggeration, 80% of people never used the step. We are talking massive numbers, in many different cities, over a long period of time, consistently, day in and day out, serving 75-300 people/day. The mystery of it keeps me up at night, to this day. I never had the courage to ask them why they didnt use the step. No amount of signs added to it helped.

There were other things, consistently about 1/3 - 1/2 of people would knock on the door with the menu posted on it, literally tapping their knuckles on the menu, and ask us what kind of food we have. These weren't isolated incidents. If anything, it was unusual for someone to go through the process as it was designed.

Generally the older the person, the less likely they were to do things that made sense. I think the food truck paradigm is unfamiliar to them, and they have forgotten how to solve novel problems, and sort of just stick to what they know at all costs, even when it's clearly not working. Age 45-60 is apparently pretty rough on the mind, or maybe it's a generational thing. Even zoomers with their eyes glued to their phones noticed the signs and the step.

I have a hard time believing most humans perceive much after that. Any job involving customer service is liable to turn one into a pessimist, but I resist as I can

There are many kinds of intelligence, but it seems intelligent perception is one of the least common, or least valued. Intelligent introspection is also severely lacking, imo. If you are perceiving very little, there is only so much intelligence that can be inside you. Intelligence has to be nurtured, and will disappear without constant challenge and input, as it has in most.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There are many kinds of intelligence, but it seems intelligent perception is one of the least common, or least valued. Intelligent introspection is also severely lacking, imo.

I'd argue that intelligent introspection is more important than "enlightenment".

Also isn't intelligent perception sort of a paradox, like enlightenment? Where enlightenment may be an egotistical idea, perception is unique to all individuals and not really correct nor incorrect.

My quote in my signature is sort of relevant.

 

[MsDiz]

Didn’t Tolstoy say everything intelligent is boring?

 

[bongdong]

I'd argue that intelligent introspection is more important than "enlightenment".

Also isn't intelligent perception sort of a paradox, like enlightenment? Where enlightenment may be an egotistical idea, perception is unique to all individuals and not really correct nor incorrect.

What if "intelligent perception" ultimately leads to the emergence of this sought-after "state of enlightenment"? I think perceiving through the veil of mind is highly individual and erratic, as you point out. But I also have the suspicion that there is a "clear seeing", observation without agenda, without mind movement that is non-personal, or just "human" on could say. Some call this meditation.

 

[Jabberwocky]

What if "intelligent perception" ultimately leads to the emergence of this sought-after "state of enlightenment"? I think perceiving through the veil of mind is highly individual and erratic, as you point out. But I also have the suspicion that there is a "clear seeing", observation without agenda, without mind movement that is non-personal, or just "human" on could say. Some call this meditation.

I'm not sure.

Nothing is clear to me

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

I'd argue that intelligent introspection is more important than "enlightenment".

Also isn't intelligent perception sort of a paradox, like enlightenment? Where enlightenment may be an egotistical idea, perception is unique to all individuals and not really correct nor incorrect.

My quote in my signature is sort of relevant.

To be honest I think that you possibly have the wrong definition of enlightenment. One does not attain enlightenment permanently nor is it a state that can be chosen. One becomes enlightened due to an experience, however it is not a consequence of education or intelligence. Enlightenment is the state where you cease to be separate from the world around you and are "in the flow" of the world. Everyone is born enlightened, but as our individual will becomes more powerful, separates us from the rest of the world and we cease to be enlightened.

One does not have to be more intelligent than anyone else to be enlightened. It just happens. Then it stops and you return to ordinary conscientiousness.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Look, i don't have a lot to say on this.

I haven't rolled around in bed contemplating it.

Let's start with assuming intelligence is based on your intelligence quotient.

Someone with a high IQ could be over rotating on a quantum problem (IDK what quantum means). Or stuck trying to compare two unrelated entities.

Meanwhile someone with a low IQ is blankly staring at something orange, hoping to god it changes purple. It doesn't, so he moves on to fucking his dog without a second thought. It feels good. Yeah, man. Real good. Then he lays down and falls asleep in 5 minutes. No worries at all.

I do think those who can't find relation between a fence and a anchor to be more "intelligent" beings. Why? Because they are more present.

IMO, they tend to live more in the moment.

And that, IMO, is an art.

Edit: who's closer to enlightenment now?

It's simple. Ignorance is bliss...


I was cursed with a high level of intelligence, logic and analytical thinking from an early age. Unfortunately I was also cursed with a total inability to use those qualities to my advantage as I was stuck in a loop of self critical analysis along with a highly addictive personality.

Substance abuse seemed like the antidote to calming the storm in my brain, but in retrospect it only made things worse.

I always envied those people that could take mushrooms or LSD 'for a laugh'. It was never a laugh for me, it was a psychological assault course that could result in heaven or hell, which increasingly became hell as my life fucked up in so many ways.

I just wish I didn't think so hard sometimes...

 

[Jabberwocky]

Everyone is born enlightened, but as our individual0 will becomes more powerful, separates us from the rest of the world and we cease to be enlightened.

That's cool - makes sense.

And i agree that anyone can be enlightened, i just think the relatively blank mind coupled with basic knowledge, of the so called dumb, may have a better chance.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's simple. Ignorance is bliss...

Right, but "dumb" people aren't necessarily ignorant, just operating with less over rotation and I'd argue more mindfulness.

 

[JessFR]

It's simple. Ignorance is bliss...


I was cursed with a high level of intelligence, logic and analytical thinking from an early age. Unfortunately I was also cursed with a total inability to use those qualities to my advantage as I was stuck in a loop of self critical analysis along with a highly addictive personality.

Substance abuse seemed like the antidote to calming the storm in my brain, but in retrospect it only made things worse.

I always envied those people that could take mushrooms or LSD 'for a laugh'. It was never a laugh for me, it was a psychological assault course that could result in heaven or hell, which increasingly became hell as my life fucked up in so many ways.

I just wish I didn't think so hard sometimes...

The problem with intelligence is that there's no such thing as "feeling smart". Higher intelligence doesn't make you think of yourself as smarter, it just makes most people around you seem dumber.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

I think if you substitute the word education for intelligence you may be correct, Madness. Some people think because they have degrees they are smarter or more intelligent than others, this is just plain wrong. One can have natural intelligence and little to no education and still attain enlightenment. We ALL attain enlightenment at the point of death.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The problem with intelligence is that there's no such thing as "feeling smart". Higher intelligence doesn't make you think of yourself as smarter, it just makes most people around you seem dumber.

Whenever you post something it gives me hope that im as special as my mommy said i am.

 

[RedRum OG]

I'd argue that intelligent introspection is more important than "enlightenment".

Also isn't intelligent perception sort of a paradox, like enlightenment? Where enlightenment may be an egotistical idea, perception is unique to all individuals and not really correct nor incorrect.

My quote in my signature is sort of relevant.

I mostly agree, but I think one kind of intelligence is being able to consider many different different perspectives. If one can truly see things through multiple lenses, it negates the ego aspect, imo.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I mostly agree, but I think one kind of intelligence is being able to consider many different different perspectives. If one can truly see things through multiple lenses, it negates the ego aspect, imo.

While things may become convoluted, at least options are considered. As long as we aren't fully attached to one idea, i think that's good practice to casually compare perspectives and not really conclude anything other than, "yeah, perhaps".

 

[RedRum OG]

While things may become convoluted, at least options are considered. As long as we aren't fully attached to one idea, i think that's good practice to casually compare perspectives and not really conclude anything other than, "yeah, perhaps".

I have sort of been paralyzed by this since I was a kid. I have a hard time forming strong opinions about things like religion and politics, or even my personal life path. I consider everything equally to a point where I'm overwhelmed. Career choice, for example, is hard, because I see so many ways I could grow into helping the world, but picking any single path and eschewing others seems so arbitrary, or contrived maybe.

So, there's definitely a way it can be counterproductive. Also, I feel the point of being a human, to some degree, is to be human. Have preferences, beliefs. Want things, need things, feel strongly. Those ascetic types that sit on a mountain, equally okay with starving or eating, seem to be skipping life, and going right to afterlife/enlightenment, which seems unnatural, for some reason.

Duality is confusing

 

[Jabberwocky]

@RedRum OG - i too have trouble forming strong opinions. I don't follow religion or politics either. I'm pretty confident that this ultimately makes me a happier individual. Although.. Less passionate and therefore finding little meaning in life, i guess.

I chose my career path purely because i like numbers and cut throat environments. Numbers, to me, make the most sense of anything.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

The problem with intelligence is that there's no such thing as "feeling smart". Higher intelligence doesn't make you think of yourself as smarter, it just makes most people around you seem dumber.

I definitely went through a lengthy period of feeling superior to those dumbfucks around me. Heroin addiction didn't help because it tends to give you a superiority complex. Nothing can touch me, I'm invulnerable, I'm just so so clever.

Meanwhile, all those dumbfucks are progressing with their lives at the usual pace. Suddenly, it dawns on you that those people you previously had contempt for are outperforming you in life.

I came out of my 20 year addiction suddenly realising that I've got 20 years to catch up on. That's a daunting prospect and could so easily result in relapse. But I've got to just bite the bullet and reevaluate myself.

If there's one thing that addiction has taught me, its humility...

 

[RedRum OG]

The problem with intelligence is that there's no such thing as "feeling smart". Higher intelligence doesn't make you think of yourself as smarter, it just makes most people around you seem dumber.

Dunning-Kruger is a hell of a drug

I live in "the valley of despair"

Just smart enough to realize I should lurk moar