Are psychedelics really a "better" class of drugs than others?

[moonyham]

And yet when I'm not tripping it's almost scary how I can guess the time so closely ...
And I don't seem to care what time it is, very ironic.

I have this too. I'm weirdly in tune with time despite having very little need to know about it. My life is very time-less. I don't have an alarm. Very few things involve a set time for me in a week.

One of my favorite parts of tripping is time dilation. I love it.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

I would be open to hearing 6th sense experiences all day.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

Me too

The number of times I’ve wandered outside and mistaken dusk for dawn and then made further drug consumption decisions on that basis is ridiculous. I should at least be able to do tell the difference between East and West under any conditions at my age.

 

[Atomic_Decay]

If you’re taking psychedelics with the expressed purpose of getting “wrecked tonight” then you have a lot of maturing to do.

I don’t disagree with this necessarily, I suppose it depends on one’s definition of ‘wrecked’.

I have often used psychedelics deliberately in the pursuit of personal psychological development- and have benefited greatly from doing so. Especially for dealing with trauma cathartically.

But I’ve also taken them plenty of times just to have more fun at gigs/concerts - nothing too deep and meaningful there really.

And more than once I taken them just because my life that day feels boring/stale/pointless - whatever - I want to get away from myself for a while. In this type of use i use them on place of the 3 bottles of wine I’d chug in front of the TV a few decades ago.

If you saw me after the wine,I think you’d describe me as ‘wrecked’ but I’m doing the acid in the same scenario for the same reason - is that bad? Immature?

 

[thegreenhand]

However, what you describe in your last paragraph may not be definitive, but it’s a possibility. I’d like to say it’s an opinion, but I lived it. My daughter had one psychedelic experience (so far), and I’m sure she will never be in the hospital for self harm again. She also believes this. For the first time in her life she believes that her life holds value.

not to rain on your parade too much... but i thought this at one point too after an excellent psychedelic trip.

but in the end i still i ended up having intense suicidal ideation/planning down the road 1-2 years later

i definitely believe psychedelics can help some people with mental health. but i like to think of it as higher highs but also lower lows. and when you know how well you could be doing, it makes it hurt even more when you cant get yourself to be as happy as that afterglow had you

 

[VerbalTruist]

I have never been able to wear a watch of any kind. They bug me and I feel chained to time.

I feel chained to time anyway. It is ever moving and unchangable.

 

[nznity]

Anything in excess can cause you harm, psychedelics being no excemption. If you can balance your use of drugs and only take them every once in a while and not in exaggerating doses, I think psychedelics can be a pretty useful tool to explore the depth of your mind and subconcious. Ofc if you're gonna drop acid every weekend and eat 2+ tabs at once, you're not gonna feel right in the head. The brain is very sensitive and it took me a while to understand that you shouldn't fuck up with your precious neurotransmitters. It's harder done than said but when you find the equilibrium it can be a powerful aid in your overall life.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

It all depends on how a person uses said drugs.

When you have been in this world for a long time. You quickly realize most people do not know fucking shit about drugs much less how to use a psychedelic in a proper way to improve their lives.

Infact i find the psychedelic community to be one of the fakest drug communities out there lol. Has always been that way.

Dropping acid is not going to anybody in a morally good jesus like figure. Your either a morally good person from your child hood or your not. Drugs aint gonna change that.

 

[VerbalTruist]

It all depends on how a person uses said drugs.

When you have been in this world for a long time. You quickly realize most people do not know fucking shit about drugs much less how to use a psychedelic in a proper way to improve their lives.

Infact i find the psychedelic community to be one of the fakest drug communities out there lol. Has always been that way.

Dropping acid is not going to anybody in a morally good jesus like figure. Your either a morally good person from your child hood or your not. Drugs aint gonna change that.

You don’t believe people are capable of meaningful change?

 

[TripSitterNZ]

You don’t believe people are capable of meaningful change?

Some people are. Majority of people are not. Psychedelics are not needed for change. And most people do not change through them. Look at the 60's most people still were assholes.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

When I was younger I had this idea that it was okay to take psychedelics but not other drugs. I know that sounds a bit silly but that's what I thought. My impression was that psychedelics were used to better yourself and for mind expansion, which I guess you could argue is the intention, and other drugs were just for getting "fucked up." As I've gotten older I feel like this was a short sided assumption and possibly not even accurate. In fact I have a couple arguments as to why they are definitely not a better class of drugs.

In my younger years it was like that for me. Psychedelics were tough mind blowing experiences. While MDMA, Cocaine, Khat or Ketamine were more to get fucked up.

Its did a U-turn since my mid 40-ties. Now the mere thought to take a 'just to get fucked up drug' i wouldn't consider.

While LSD analogues and certain Tryptamines (4-ho-MIPT) have become relaxing re creative experiences. Totally diff then in my 20-ties.

 

[FredF]

not to rain on your parade too much... but i thought this at one point too after an excellent psychedelic trip.

but in the end i still i ended up having intense suicidal ideation/planning down the road 1-2 years later

i definitely believe psychedelics can help some people with mental health. but i like to think of it as higher highs but also lower lows. and when you know how well you could be doing, it makes it hurt even more when you cant get yourself to be as happy as that afterglow had you

I don’t expect that those thoughts wouldn’t come to her. It may be a lifelong struggle. But if and when it happens next, for the first time as she tries to get through it, she will do so knowing what she didn’t before. That her life holds value. She really, truly didn’t believe that, and anyone who would tell her otherwise was only lying, because it’s the polite thing to do. She now believes otherwise, fully.

I think that if she gets that dark again, which is normal under the human condition, it will be from a completely different mindset.

For me, I’ve never felt so bad that I couldn’t imagine winning the lottery tomorrow, or meeting my dream girl. And then thought of robbing myself of what tomorrow could bring. This makes sense to her now. Like as if she was looking at a foreign language, trying to understand something all these years, and suddenly it turned into a recognizable language with all that information flooding in.

I’m also exactly the type of guy to keep pulling it out of her. And now she believes this too. And she’ll let me. She keeps telling me. We are so happy. Our level of communication and trust jumped light years. A child who never felt validated, ever and know does fully? It is the story.

In my initial post after her experience, I didn’t mention early can clearly that everything could still turn upside down for a variety of reasons. But right now, bit of us are happier and at more peace than when she was a child. She loves this feeling. I’ll keep reminding her how worth it is go through with hardships to come back to this. It already does. And the hard ships return as well. Constant swinging. We hang on as best we could. I won’t have to convince too hard, because it’s an understanding grounded in reality.

The whole world tried to tell this girl how smart she is. And I know, that’s what the world tells a kid, regardless. Thus was different. This was a 20 year old mind in a 10 year old body. That’s what would people, adults would say after a conversation with her about a topic she should have had no business knowing at that age. She never believed it. Ever. I dint think she’ll ever doubt it again.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

I don’t expect that those thoughts wouldn’t come to her. It may be a lifelong struggle. But if and when it happens next, for the first time as she tries to get through it, she will do so knowing what she didn’t before. That her life holds value. She really, truly didn’t believe that, and anyone who would tell her otherwise was only lying, because it’s the polite thing to do. She now believes otherwise, fully.

I think that if she gets that dark again, which is normal under the human condition, it will be from a completely different mindset.

For me, I’ve never felt so bad that I couldn’t imagine winning the lottery tomorrow, or meeting my dream girl. And then thought of robbing myself of what tomorrow could bring. This makes sense to her now. Like as if she was looking at a foreign language, trying to understand something all these years, and suddenly it turned into a recognizable language with all that information flooding in.

I’m also exactly the type of guy to keep pulling it out of her. And now she believes this too. And she’ll let me. She keeps telling me. We are so happy. Our level of communication and trust jumped light years. A child who never felt validated, ever and know does fully? It is the story.

In my initial post after her experience, I didn’t mention early can clearly that everything could still turn upside down for a variety of reasons. But right now, bit of us are happier and at more peace than when she was a child. She loves this feeling. I’ll keep reminding her how worth it is go through with hardships to come back to this. It already does. And the hard ships return as well. Constant swinging. We hang on as best we could. I won’t have to convince too hard, because it’s an understanding grounded in reality.

The whole world tried to tell this girl how smart she is. And I know, that’s what the world tells a kid, regardless. Thus was different. This was a 20 year old mind in a 10 year old body. That’s what would people, adults would say after a conversation with her about a topic she should have had no business knowing at that age. She never believed it. Ever. I dint think she’ll ever doubt it again.

Does your Daughter microdose on a regular basis or does she take macrodoses once in a while, or has she not had to redose for a while now? Thanks. I’m trying to figure out a schedule of some kind for myself at this time.

 

[neversickanymore]

And most people do not change through them.

im on the other side off the fence.. why do you think this Tripnz?

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I don’t disagree with this necessarily, I suppose it depends on one’s definition of ‘wrecked’.

I have often used psychedelics deliberately in the pursuit of personal psychological development- and have benefited greatly from doing so. Especially for dealing with trauma cathartically.

But I’ve also taken them plenty of times just to have more fun at gigs/concerts - nothing too deep and meaningful there really.

And more than once I taken them just because my life that day feels boring/stale/pointless - whatever - I want to get away from myself for a while. In this type of use i use them on place of the 3 bottles of wine I’d chug in front of the TV a few decades ago.

If you saw me after the wine,I think you’d describe me as ‘wrecked’ but I’m doing the acid in the same scenario for the same reason - is that bad? Immature?

im a pretty happy camper overall and i've got my feet on the ground for the most part - im not exactly the most spiritual person either although i do enjoy some of that, but usually it's from me just enjoying hearing somebody else who speaks about it well....know what i mean?

so im not exactly deepest person out there if you haven't noticed - i like to laugh - that's my medicine....if you're talking for too long about serious things, im gonna crack a joke somewhere

basically i just love to trip

but the benefits happen anyway that i mentioned earlier in the thread without any expectations - and that's my point - so that's why im saying, it does do something beneficial - i feel like im on top of the world most of the time after a trip as long as i take a decent break in between and i sleep well

and no i don't think that afterglow lasts long but it seems to be the most effective when i trip about every 4 weeks nowadays - but i did notice it also when i dosed every 2 weeks but any shorter of a time period in between it was greatly diminished

so i wouldn't think it's a "cure" but something that can help elevate the mood for a short period of time and it's something to continue to look forward to - and looking forward to something is of great benefit also

but i guess if you looked forward to doing coke every weekend, that's kinda good too right?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

No but they have to most power of any drug class at deluding the user that the drugs are good for them.

 

[Xorkoth]

Taking psychedelics every day is not a good idea and can lead to profoundly negative consequences. But most people don't feel compelled to take them very often, because the experiences are intense and often difficult. However, it has been my experience that, if you use them with the intention of working on yourself, and go into it expecting to possibly encounter very difficult experiences, and work through those (rather than taking them to party and then hiding from what they show you), psychedelics have a much higher value than other classes of drugs, because they really can lead you to some deep realizations about yourself. Not everyone can handle psychedelics, though. And they are not without risks. Huge amounts of research from the 50s and 60s (before demonization/prohibition) into psychedelics as psychotherapy aids, points to them having huge, even paradigm-shifting potential. As does new research that is finally being allowed. Set and setting are extremely important... for example, a group of kids necking a bunch of acid at a party and posting videos of the kid who's freaking out is going to produce traumatic experiences. But at home in a comfortable place, as an adult, as part of a process of self-discovery, with an experienced sitter able to direct the trip in a positive way, is a different story.

Of all of the classes of drugs I've taken, the only ones that have truly bettered my life, and that I want to take occasionally for the foreseeable future, are psychedelics. I have used them to disrupt a10 year opioid addiction (got 5 years clean), to better understand the reasons why I do things, to disrupt chronic negative thought patterns, to kick myself out of depressive episodes, and to experience music and sound in new ways that helped me as a musician. And early on, they reshaped my entire view of what life is and what I am. I have also used them simply for recreational purposes, which is fine too, as long as you know what you're doing.

 

[FredF]

Does your Daughter microdose on a regular basis or does she take macrodoses once in a while, or has she not had to redose for a while now? Thanks. I’m trying to figure out a schedule of some kind for myself at this time.

Hello, friend. I appreciate your query.

As of now, she has only had the one macro dose, and no micro dosing.

I have 25 years on and off experience with psychedelics, but back in my early travels, way back then, the word “micro dose” was foreign to me. As was ”trip sitter” for that matter. But in my more recent experiences, I gave micro dosing a shot.

I think this would specific to the individual, and only he or she would know, I suppose, but for what my daughter and I needed, I felt going in deep was the best route.

As we are now, just over 5 weeks from her experience, there isn’t any set plan in place really, aside from maybe one more macro dose before school starts.

She’s still feeling the afterglow. Still going through the introspection the trip gave her, and she still feels optimistic about her future.

I reiterate, my only goal for her first trip was for her to realize that her life holds value, and that she has the ability to do whatever she wishes to do. In that respect, it was a complete and total success.

The next macro dose, it will be a bit different. I’m going to show her exactly how powerful her mind is. And just like I was sure I’d succeed the last time, when she sees exactly what she’s capable of, rather than only believe it, it’s going to knock her socks off.

After that, I’d like for her to take what’s she taken out of these experiences and talk to a proper psychotherapist and continue the healing. Im not sure how much the mushrooms will or won’t be involved after that. I myself do believe in hanging up the phone when the message has been received, but sometimes, once in the bluest of moons, I like to go back to reinforce the message. But it’ll be up to her at that point. She’s a big girl. And she’ll do it how she wants to, which more often than not, is the right way.

 

[CollectiveCon050]

Psilocybine doesnt have a destructive character, like crystal meth does. On a normal dose mexican mushrooms at least. Preparation, mindset, setting = very important for the trip.

 

[Neuroborean]

Taking psychedelics every day is not a good idea and can lead to profoundly negative consequences.

Honestly Xorkoth,... you surely agree with me that you need to have some serious problem, to begin with, to start taking psychedelics everyday. It's not something that MOST people ever think to.
I know that you did some time of your history, but man, I'm probably right if I guess that you were probably not in your more "rational and sensible" period of your life.

Now I'm going to give my opinion on this:


In my opinion, psychedelics are a very different type of substance. That doesn't mean it can't be as bad or even more dangerous than others. If you go crazy as a loon then it is more than clear that neither you nor your family are going to consider the positive aspects of psychedelics.

The question is not so much what bad things it can create in a given context (usually a negative, problem-prone context, such as a person with a family with cases of schizophrenia or the like) but rather what constructive, positive issues it can create, relative to other substances.

I do not know if you know Claudio Naranjo, he is a doctor, psychiatrist and pioneer in the study of psychedelics in therapy, he is also a Gestalt therapist (I do not like this therapy very much, but maybe it is important to mention it).
This guy considers empathogens to be psychedelics, in that they also show a part of the mind that is often blocked or not fully manifested. He calls psychedelic empathogens non-psychopathomimetic (as opposed to LSD or psilocybin which would be psychopathomimetic). It is clear that medical science and therapy with psychedelics has come a long way since then but the question is why psychedelics?
The question answers itself, psychedelics produce or can produce a series of profound changes in the mind and self-perception of people so that these changes help or catalyze a process of psychological or even existential healing that other substances do not produce or produce in a "falsified" way, not in the long term (for example the "confidence" of cocaine or other stimulants, the "peace" of morphine and heroin, always fragile).

If psychedelics have been chosen and follow a process in which they will be used as an aid to psychiatry, it is because they are in some way better, as more useful, at least, than other substances.

And by this I am not talking at all about their more spiritual, interdimensional, creative and other aspects, which are also relatively specific to psychedelics.