Are opiates really bad for your health?

[bmxgroupie]

Hey all, first real post here wOOt! This site is the best for wasting time at work
I have been studying the wonderful world of opiates (WWOO lol) a bit lately and I have a question. It's the ? in my title, which sounds ridiculous at first, but let me elaborate. I mean does it do any harm to the body excluding problems related to the RA like infection etc, excluding addiction potential, excluding overdose potential ... Say for instance, if I took a measly 5-10mg of pure hydrocodone every day for the rest of my life, would my health suffer at all due to this?

I ask this because I have discovered for myself, a new application for hydro other than getting fucked up and pain relief :D I would elaborate further, but it might belong in a different thread category. It's ADD/ADHD related.

Thanks and Happy Thursday folks! (in the western hemisphere anyway)

 

[madog11]

No. Opiates are actually harmless on the organs and health in general. In my opinion if it wasn't for tolerance and addiction they would be the perfect drug. One of the only pharmacuticals that aren't actually damaging. You can OD but that would be because your respiration would be depressed thats it. No real damage. Except as you said infection from shooting up, addiction etc.

 

[spini4]

Damage is only done when uninformed users don't take proper safety precautions. Physical and mental addiction may be looked on as negative health aspects due to opiate use.

 

[phatass]

i saw a documentary that said, as you said, appart from OD and addiction potential, the opiates themselves aren't actually dangerous, of course f you soke em, sniff em or inject them theres the risks assossiated with those ROA's

 

[bmxgroupie]

Wow that's very interesting. Thanks for the info. Good to know. Here's the background to why I ask. I took 5-15mg in 5mg doses a day of hydrocodone for 2 weeks at work. My focus level was like a flipping laser beam. Seriously. My job is very boring but on the hydro my work ethic reached levels I've never had. I'm undiagnosed ADD and I was so happy with the newfound focus and pride in my work. So I googled 'hydro increases focus' and found plenty of posts from others on random sites saying the same. I was ASTOUNDED by the negative comments people had for these posts along the lines of 'oh your just high'. Excuse me but isn't someone taking adderal for ADD 'just high' on adderal when it corrects their issues? Isn't someone 'just high' on Tylenol when it takes pain away? Another response was 'if I had a glass of wine at my desk I'd enjoy work more too'. That's nonsense. I have a beer at lunch lots and it does nothing for my job performance. Really just makes me want to go home But their main argument was 'opiates are bad for you, you will only become a junky, it's horrible to be on opiates for any length of time unless you are in chronic pain'. I could go on but here's my argument. Medical science has deemed opiates ok for pain management because that's there intended use. Intended use? If there are other applications for it they should be considered. I believe most ADD meds are addictive and are abuseable so what is the difference? A bad rep, that's what I think. Anyway my only concern with taking hydro for ADD is that the desired affect on focus would wane after long term use. I have no idea since I don't have a lot of experience w the drug. Perhaps someone here has had a similar experience and can shed light.

And by the way, I have done tons of other drugs all my life. So the positive affect for me wasn't just my enthusiasm about being fucked up. I'm always fucked up LOL!

End of rant!

 

[Psylex]

First of all are you 100% sure you have ADD, or is it just a lack of motivation directly linked to your job? Indeed amphetamine is the best nootropic invented yet, as for opioids, there is a possibility that the focus is a consequence of the well being which could delete the inital boredom (as you read on the net). I wish medical research would find a perfect prevention cure for opiate addiction during our generation, transhumanism would therefore come to birth much faster haha. I read another post on bluelight about an opiate-addict university student doing very good at work too

 

[i against i]

No. Opiates are actually harmless on the organs and health in general. In my opinion if it wasn't for tolerance and addiction they would be the perfect drug. One of the only pharmacuticals that aren't actually damaging. You can OD but that would be because your respiration would be depressed thats it. No real damage. Except as you said infection from shooting up, addiction etc.

they stop endorphin production which produces anhedonia for months after quitting which is significant i think.

Damage is only done when uninformed users don't take proper safety precautions. Physical and mental addiction may be looked on as negative health aspects due to opiate use.

er shitty cuts could still get in even if you use a proper filter.

given that heroin is never pharmeceutical grade on the street and IV users rarely follow best practise, to say opiates are harmless isn't exactly true, when their use is so interconnected with these negatives. the perfect junkie doesn't exist.

bmxgroupie you are quick to dismiss others claims (wine would help me work) just as quick as they are to dismiss yours. pharm opioids are known for being stimulating. people who take tylenol aren't high. theraputic doses of methylphenidate (ritalin) are way below recreational doses. you can't self diagnose ADD. opiates are physically addictive, if you stop taking them after an appreciable period of everyday use (a few months) you will start shitting your pants, vomiting, not sleeping for days and feel like every bone is broken. if you started them for concentration you would probably just end up nodding out all the time.

 

[qwe]

i've had similar thoughts recently, about opiates and ADD. i recently took a few vicodin, and i was able to program and read without constant distraction.

during my first few years of school i took morphine daily (self medicated) and it worked great for focus (my focus was destroyed once i started attempting to quit, though)

 

[bmxgroupie]

First of all are you 100% sure you have ADD, or is it just a lack of motivation directly linked to your job? Indeed amphetamine is the best nootropic invented yet, as for opioids, there is a possibility that the focus is a consequence of the well being which could delete the inital boredom (as you read on the net). I wish medical research would find a perfect prevention cure for opiate addiction during our generation, transhumanism would therefore come to birth much faster haha. I read another post on bluelight about an opiate-addict university student doing very good at work too

Bare with me, trying quotes first time on iPhone ...
Not trying to argue at all, but just counter your points for clarity I'm not sure I'm ADD, but according to the internet I am ADDish at the very least. I see your point but it's not just at work that the symptoms show up it's throughout my life. I'm a mom & wife and im constantly fucking things up from my lack of attention. I understand the web is not a doctor but I can see the correlations for sure. My husbands nickname for me is Oblivia

As for the boredom issue, that may be true. That the well being counteracts boredom. But isn't that the same as saying the speediness from adderal is what's making you more focused? Sure it is! Then just insert 'well being' instead of speedy. Same for depression drugs: isn't it just the sense of well being that makes your depression go away? Yes it is! The positive side effects of drugs is what we call a cure. Also, the boredom theory only applies to work and I saw improvement in my family life as well. In short, I usually deal with the forest one tree at a time depending on what tree i see first and forget other trees exist. On Hydro I can see the forest and each tree and decide which tree to deal with first allthewhile the other tree are still in the back of my mind.

I'm not adverse to trying traditional ADD meds but I did read a few post where the person was already on adderal or whatnot and the hydro worked better 10 fold.

Just throwing it all out there y'all!

 

[codeineluva]

opiates - no (but oinly no if u dont have health issus that could lead to fatal stuff -thinking of low blood pressure or sleep apnoe- )
opioids - some of them since they dont leave the body uneliminated like codein dose for example..
correct me if im wrong

 

[i against i]

the fatigue reducing, work ability increasing affects of opiates have been known for hundreds of years. opium was used for this exact purpose.

 

[bmxgroupie]

they stop endorphin production which produces anhedonia for months after quitting which is significant i think.

Hi i against i. I'd like to counter just for the sake of discussion. I'm not considering dependency in my proposal because I'm comparing the use of opiates for ADD like they are used for pain management. Dependency would be an issue in both cases, but society has decided its ok for people in pain mgmt to become dependent. Perhaps it would be worth the dependency for me to live a productive life I can be proud of.

er shitty cuts could still get in even if you use a proper filter.

given that heroin is never pharmeceutical grade on the street and IV users rarely follow best practise, to say opiates are harmless isn't exactly true, when their use is so interconnected with these negatives. the perfect junkie doesn't exist.

I'm not talking about heroin, but prescribed hydrocodone.

bmxgroupie you are quick to dismiss others claims (wine would help me work) just as quick as they are to dismiss yours.

Difference is that I usually do have a beer at lunch and it does not improve my work ethic. It does allow me to enjoy being at work a little more but I'm more prone to fuck off or be social instead of working.

pharm opioids are known for being stimulating. people who take tylenol aren't high.

My opinion is that feeling effects of any drug = high. It doesn't have to mean euphoric or off your face.

theraputic doses of methylphenidate (ritalin) are way below recreational doses.

I am talking about therapeutic doses of Hydrocodone 5mg.

you can't self diagnose ADD.

I know but I'm smart enough to realize that my lack of focus and disorganization is enough to lower my quality of life and many times let's my family down.

opiates are physically addictive, if you stop taking them after an appreciable period of everyday use (a few months) you will start shitting your pants, vomiting, not sleeping for days and feel like every bone is broken.

I realize and appreciate those facts, but again my argument is why good for the goose (pain) but not good for the gander (ADD)

if you started them for concentration you would probably just end up nodding out all the time.

I didn't nod on 5mg my very first dose ever or even up to 10. I didn't officially nod the entire 2 week experiment.


What I'd really like to know is if anyone experienced this extreme focus and then have it disappear after continued use/tolerance.

Ah crap most of my retorts ended up in your quote iagainsti! Sorry,
damn phone.

 

[silentcowboy]

I dont have ADD/ADHD but i find that I am more willing to work and do better work on opiates, well, now i use kratom (more stimulating, less noticeable at work)
I've taken opiates/kratom for work for about 3 years now. I could work without them (and i have) but it makes me enjoy work, i dont think thats so wrong.
If i was you I'd try some kratom before your tolerance gets anywhere.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

If you continue taking them, tolerance is inevitable. If you take the same dose everyday, the tolerance will develop slower than if you constantly jack up your doses, but you will acquire tolerance. In pain patients who take the same doses everyday, the tolerance to the analgesic effect develops at a crawling pace... patients stay on the same doses for months to years and many can go years and years without even doubling their dose. It's when you are using them recreationally (aka for their enjoyable side effects) that tolerance builds rapidly. I suspect and can't independently verify that what you're experiencing, while not as insidious as taking the drug to nod, is still something you'll build a tolerance to relatively quickly and stable doses won't be sufficient for years.

This is all predicated upon you having will-power of steal and never using them in any other fashion and abusing them for other enjoyable effects. Perhaps this is possible but very, very few people can diagnose themselves, self-prescribe recreational drugs and sustain this use for any enduring period. If you legitimately have a medical problem, work with a doctor. Telling yourself you're better off taking narcotic painkillers for your "add" sounds more like begin-stage rationalizing than a reasonable justification.

 

[bmxgroupie]

i've had similar thoughts recently, about opiates and ADD. i recently took a few vicodin, and i was able to program and read without constant distraction.

during my first few years of school i took morphine daily (self medicated) and it worked great for focus (my focus was destroyed once i started attempting to quit, though)

Cool, so you did it for more than a year and the focus never disappeared? That's good news. I figured it's quickly go away with tolerance. Did you have to up your dose to maintain that?

And yeah, I'm sure you did lose concentration after stopping understatement?

And look, the mods are on my side! Yay I win :D j/k LOL

 

[i against i]

you can't consider opiates (really opioids in this discussion) without considering dependency. that is the sole reason they are notorious, and never used for psychiatric treatment, although they would obviously be great for anxiety, depression etc.

does not improve your work ethic. drugs affect people differently. it was common to drink alcohol and eat opium at work during the 19th century.

your opinion does not help. people rarely feel anything noticeable from SSRI's. you don't get high from them. but you don't feel depressed. your definition just doesn't work.

i'm saying people who use ritalin as prescribed and those who use it for recreation are experiencing completely different things.

a lot of opioid pain management (speaking from UK perspective here) is short term, whilst under general anaesthetic, or for terminally ill patients. first two, dependency isn't high risk. 3rd, they are going to die very soon so will never have to quit taking them.

ADD treatment is long term.

my final point was, your tolerance and thus use would increase, thus your liking for it and you would become a dope fiend.

 

[Busty St Clare]

The simple effects of tolerance will mean your experiment will fail sooner rather than later. At best you are in the honeymoon phase, and sooner rather than later the bad effects will surface. opiates may be safe to most organs such as the liver and kidneys but the most important organ, your brain should not to be ignored. The fact that your libido is decreased with long tern use is enough of a warning sign that neurological side effects are not to be ignored.

 

[bmxgroupie]

I dont have ADD/ADHD but i find that I am more willing to work and do better work on opiates, well, now i use kratom (more stimulating, less noticeable at work)
I've taken opiates/kratom for work for about 3 years now. I could work without them (and i have) but it makes me enjoy work, i dont think thats so wrong.
If i was you I'd try some kratom before your tolerance gets anywhere.

Hmmm I don't know much about Kratom, cept heard of it. Something to research! Thanks
Cowboy, over those years at work did you need to up the dose to maintain the focus?

 

[bmxgroupie]

Hahaaaaa love it! Ok just to clear the air - yes I love the buzz and would be extremely tempted to 'cheat'. There I said it LOL.

I guess I'm just playing devils advocate here. I am not the best example of someone who should be prescribed opiates but the truth is that I recognized a significantly helpful effect from it and it made me wonder about whether it had ever been considered in the medical field for this purpose. And it amazes me how people poo poo it for THIS use but not THAT use. In America many people are prescribed it for extended periods sometimes decades.

Thanks for all the warnings guys. I do understand how painfull w/d can be. My whole grand plan was to get a doctor behind this, not find hydro on the street. My fantasy was to get a script for 5mg a day and hope the effect wouldn't go away as tolerance rose. Actually after using it the first 3-4 days the euphoria wore down but the focus remained. I was hoping that wouldn't change ever. Just practicing before I go before the medical board

 

[bmxgroupie]

The simple effects of tolerance will mean your experiment will fail sooner rather than later. At best you are in the honeymoon phase, and sooner rather than later the bad effects will surface. opiates may be safe to most organs such as the liver and kidneys but the most important organ, your brain should not to be ignored. The fact that your libido is decreased with long tern use is enough of a warning sign that neurological side effects are not to be ignored.

Libido drops for chicks as well? I always figured it was just the guys.