APAP and water solubility? (cold water extraction) Too much water = dangerous?

[bluntedskier]

I received a whole bunch of the absolutely shitty 5/500 Hydrocodone pills yesterday. I'm super wary about APAP damage/overdose. Shit scares the hell out of me! I think that is justified though... considering the horrific implications of taking too much APAP.


Anyways, I've done CWE before and also I am not an idiot.... It's less complicated than making a martini.


However, I never took into factor the amount of water I was really using until I was reading the megathread about it. The last response had been last year so I decided to make a new thread quick. Not really concerned, just a bit/curious.

I was under the apparently false impression that APAP was not water soluble at all, and that the bits that would make it through to your CWE final drink, would just be what managed to slip through the filter.

However, I have read now from various people figures that range from claiming that APAP is soluble at the ratio of: 8mg/ml of water, 1gram of APAP/100ml of water etc etc


- I crushed up ten 5/100 hydros, so 50mg hydrocodone and 5g APAP.

- Crushed the pills up very well for not having a blender... combination of a pestle-like thing and then some labor-intensive work with a normal card till it looked like a big pile very fine cocaine or whatever.

- put the powder in a rather tall glass of cold sink water. no idea how many mL (think 'normal-size' tallish, standard kitchen drinking glass found in most cabinets, filled up a little less than 3/4th)

- Stirred for several minutes vigorously to what seemed to be sufficient.

- Put in the fridge (frost-cold) and let sit overnight. This morning a very thin amount of ice had begun to form at the top of the water solution.

- Used standard, cheap coffee filter, secured with rubber-band. Poured as much solution as it would hold into new cup. Let very patiently drain, drop by drop while sitting in fridge.

- Poured the remaining amount in. Let drip-drop for a while.

- With the majority of my CWE filtered and done, I took off the rubber-band and filter and carefully squeezed the remaining amount of liquid through the filter, leaving me with a fat wad of disgusting white gunk inside the left over filter.

- Let sit and strained one more time with new coffee filter. Little amounts of white residue visible in coffee filter.

End product: About 1 cup or so worth of pretty cloudy water, transferred to a smaller "scotch" size glass. Drank a little while ago.


Okay, shit well all of that was probably unnecessary to list out like that... but my point is - it seems as though I did my CWE probably better than most people in a rush to get high (not hating... I just had the extra time). Yet, no matter what I do for filtration, it seems as though the end product is always going to be cloudy. Is that a result of mostly the other fillers and binders in the pill? Or is it the left over APAP tracers amount or some of both?

I would assume that a "perfect" CWE would logically result in liquid clear as water, but filled of course with the extracted synthetic opiates?

I just never realized that by using more water that I probably was enabling a lot more APAP to come through into my drink than I had thought. Since it is pretty clear that I successfully removed most of the APAP by the large amount of material left over from the main filtration - along with the quick additional one.... I'm sure I am consuming a safe amount of APAP, but my question is essentially - how much?

In one way CWE is as simple as possible, and seems to be just as straightforward with any variables/mistakes that can be made. The "gunk" is collected in your filter, and the water goes through, thus removing almost all of Tylenol. Drink the cloudy water.


In another, it gets a bit more complex (yet still pretty simple..) with the questions I have about APAP water solubility. I do have somewhat of a tolerance to opiates. I can blow 30-45 of Oxy at once and feel good, without the potentially 'overpowering' effects kicking in. So this means even with dumb 5/100 hydrocodones... I don't need an insane amount to get to a pleasant dose. However, for someone (a lot of people in this forum..) who has a tolerance 3 to 5x the amount I have.... they would need to crush up at least 20-30 of these hydros, as opposed to 10. Just for example - if you need to take 30 pills of these 5/500s, that is 15 grams of APAP... enough to kill an elephant! In that case, and cases where even higher levels of APAP are involved - if APAP is really water soluble, even at just small amounts, and taking into account that some amount is also just going to pass through the filter... then there obviously is a point where just plain ol easy and quick CWE can even be dangerous>?


Keep that liver fresh!

 

[Drew.]

I was reading the MEGA thread and came across this:

OK, you want a proper answer? Everything must follow certain rules.
Chemistry, physics, they all follow rules. I don't care to look up the
solubility of APAP at the moment, but it is low. Lets go with your
figure of 1 gram in 100mL water, that sounds about right. You used 150mL.
Therefore, the most APAP you have in solution is 1.5 grams (very basic math). There's nothing to be concerned about. There's a limit to how much APAP can dissolve into 150mL water, and you're safe.

Happy with the answer?

 

[Anon54]

I tried doing CWE with the a generic pack of ibu/codeine & the solution came out cloudy so i didnt drink it. id assume it was the pill binders but better off being safe than sorry.
does anyone know if when u do cwe with nurofen + the solution somes out clear.
it comes out almost clear for me with anything with apap. u should use a first filter before putting it through a coffee filter. most ppl will say UTFSE but ive got some info ive copied from another post of mine:

Some of u i dont think do cwe well & effeciantly so i thought i might add my procedure. It works perfect. Ive had my liver tested recently & the dr said mine is healthier than his. & ive done cwe many times.
this is also a way of getting around having blacked filters

1. buy a 40 pack chemists own pain tablets pack
2. put it in 80mL of water & put it in freezer for 1/2 hr. (chemists own dissolve themselfs)
3. put an unused hanky over a small bowl after wetting the hanky with cold water so it doesnt obsorbe the codeine/apap water (wet than sqeeze the water out so u dont add more water to ya mix), stir the mix for about a minute otherwise u'll just be tipping the water from the top & will be missing out on some of the codeine cought in the apap mix.
4. pour mix straight after stiring over the hanky (make sure ya get every bit of water & apap into the hanky, this is why u stir it first & if a little bit of solid is left at the bottom add a tiny amount of water so u get every little bit out), wrap up the sides of the hanky & squeeze the water through the hanky. Squeeze as tightly as u can to get every last drop out. (hold it at the top to tightly with ya right hand & sqeeze all the water out with ya lefthand.) when ya open up the hanky there will be dry solid apap that u can wash down the sink)

this gets rid of like 95%+ of the apap. u can than put it through a coffee filter & it wont get blocked by apap. always wet the filter with cold water first so it doesnt obsrorbe ya mix. u CAN gently sqeeze the hanky to allow it to drip through.
when ya squeezeing it sqeeze it into a 2nd glass & add it to the 1st glass as it goes well so if the filter breaks u dont have to start again.

this is the best way of doing cwe & ive always got 80mL water back out of the cwe so im getting pretty much all the codeine cuz its the same amount of water i started with.

the water is grey, not clear. but try putting 2 grams of apap into 80mL of water. it'll turn white, not grey & start to make a layer down the bottom. so that proves it must have less than 2g.

btw i think everyone who reguarly does CWE should try milk thistle. its in liva tone shots uve seen on tv before but dont buy them cuz can just buy milk thistle in another brand for cheaper & with twice the amount. it's a strong antioxident which helps repair & detox ya liver because realistically between 200mg-1g will probably end up in ya drink (the soluble apap & maybe a little that may get through the filter) & if ya doin it a few times a week it would be a good idea because although drs say it's safe studies have been shown that just regually taking 1g apap even a few times a week is bad for ya liver

 

[bluntedskier]

^yeah there are so many different ways to approach it... although all the correct ones should accomplish the same thing.

And Drew - funny, I found that shortly after posting this and felt a little stupid. OF course there is no way those figures are accurate (of 8mg apap for every mL of water) but probably close enough. So with that in mind, limiting your water to 100-200 ml measured out gives you peace of mind that you literally cannot fuck up somehow and let a shitload of APAP through... plus it is also (obviously) a lot easier and faster to filter less water.


For anyone who has struggled a bit with trying to get their solution as pure as possible, in the shortest amount of time.. after my third extraction of the last of the hydros I have - I have now a method that I find works best, might be helpful to someone. My process is not the "one minute quick CWE fix that I have seen posted a lot out there... but it takes me between 10-25 mins and definitely seems to be worth the extra time:


1.Have a measuring cup/liquid holder of some sort and measure out your water. Distilled water is always preferred, but normal tap water works just as well. Run the tap water for a minute to have it maximum cold. Especially in the winter, this temperature level coming out of your tap should be plenty cold enough by itself. Unless you are using huge quantities of pills, it doesn't seem necessary to exceed 200ml of water. I just did a CWE of 10 disgustingly fat 5/500 hydros, and 150ml was plenty. Probably could of done 100ml.

2. Put the cold tap water that is measured out in the freezer, along with a small ice cube in it.

3. Crush up your pills. I can't emphasize this enough: take your time to really crush it all up until you have the finest, dust-like powder in front of you. From other tutorials with pictures I've seen on the web, it is amazing again to see how lazy/in a hurry people are and leave their pills barely crushed up compared to mine. May take 5-10 or so minutes longer of hard scraping and crushing with a card (after they are initially broken up) but common sense tells that the whole procedure is going to be many time more efficient when you are working with powder.

4. Take the water out of the freezer. Remove the ice cube. It should be very cold (why not, can't help.. only help), and then dump all your powder into it and STIR. I find that you don't need to stir for more than 5 minutes vigorously around with a spoon or chopstick or whatever u have.

***Optional*** Take an intermission and after stirring, put the solution back in the freezer or fridge and go do something else you need to do.... like eat lunch, read, bust a nut in your girls mouth, w/e you do... then come right back and resume. No evidence to back up that letting it sit in the cold for 15ish minutes extra does anything more, but if nothing else - I like it to settle so I can see the separation of the gunk at bottom start to settle. Then if you want to stir for another 5 minutes and put it back for another 10, it definitely can't hurt. Probably will increase the potency slightly, not a lot. ***


5. Take another glass or whatever you have.. it's best if it taller/skinnier than a normal fat, short and wide glass. Now I realize you can use anything from a tee shirt, dress-shirt , cloth, tissue.... but for some reason I trust the filtering properties of an average coffee filter the best. You can get them pretty much any convenient store for like $2-3 if you don't already have some. Take your first filter, wet it completely and then wring it out. and open it and position it so it goes deep enough into the tall glass, holding the edges or use a rubber band if you want.. Carefully POUR your solution in.

- For the "first pour" having it rigged with a rubberband is actually the best, since for the first couple minutes I just let it sit and drip n' drain like it supposed to. After a couple minutes this should produce a really nicely filtered liquid starting to collect in your glass, however it will slow down to nearly a complete halt after it starts to get clogged with the APAP and binders.

6. This depends a lot on the type/quality of the coffee filters, but I just tried it on the shittiest fucking filters ever, so if this just goes a step further:

- Take the rubber-band off, carefully hold the filter with your one hand and pour more/the rest (if you can fit it) of your solution. The weight will want to pull the filter down into the cup which would lead to beginning the filtering process over again..... so make sure to grab all the edges of the filter and pull it up and kind of "twist/seal it up" at the top. NOW if you have shitty filters, or just want to be careful, while holding your "bulb of pill-water" over the tall glass and letting it drip - grab a second filter (already prepared) and quickly put it over the first filter.

- Now "twist" the top of that filter off, and pinch it completely sealed shut along with the original one inside. Now you have a double layer filter just incase they are shitty like the ones I got and rip extremely easily.... and as long you hold closed the tops of both filters, you can just squeeze all the liquid through into the glass in under 10 seconds. Squeeze it really hard when most of the water is out, just to wring it out and get all the opiate-water you can get.

DONE!

** However: ** You may notice that your end solution is still suspiciously cloudy and maybe even has a decent amount of white "residue" at the bottom of your glass. This is why I like to filter a couple times over.

7. Clean the initial glass that held your solution that you stirred it in... there is probably a whole bunch of gross white APAP sludge in the bottom and around the glass. Or just use another glass...

- Just repeat the steps of filtering as I described. You can go back and forth as many times as you want, I find usually 3 times is good enough where I get a slightly cloudy but relatively clear liquid that seems to be very much potent as your dose is...

- You can even triple bag the coffee filters if you want to go quick and still get excellent filtration. As long as you squeeze them real dry, you are not losing much if any opiates..

 

[gearfiend]

bluntedskier: what you did is almost EXACTLY what has been done on a previous occasion, except did not let it sit overnight, waited about 30min in freezer. 50mg worth used of 5/500 hydrocodone (generic). also, the powder was nowhere near as fine as you describe, but good enough to dissolve fairly evenly. always found was that the apap has dissolved well enough when the most you can find in the water is tiny white pieces, probably smaller than the size of sugar grains. difference: 2 coffee filters at the same time. everything else except what was listed above was the same. it is probably also worth mentioning the pills were expired, which is probably not a factor. however, my liquid was almost clear upon completion, and was poured into water bottle and topped off the bottle, making the liquid virtually the same looking as water. only very close inspection would cause any hint of suspected contamination. perfect to drink anytime, anywhere. most likely the slight cloudiness left is the binders in the pills.

 

[gearfiend]

btw i think everyone who reguarly does CWE should try milk thistle. its in liva tone shots uve seen on tv before but dont buy them cuz can just buy milk thistle in another brand for cheaper & with twice the amount. it's a strong antioxident which helps repair & detox ya liver because realistically between 200mg-1g will probably end up in ya drink (the soluble apap & maybe a little that may get through the filter) & if ya doin it a few times a week it would be a good idea because although drs say it's safe studies have been shown that just regually taking 1g apap even a few times a week is bad for ya liver

really good idea. apap can probably cause build up, leading to toxicity, and is worse than alcohol on the liver.