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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

APAP + alcohol

N

neurotic

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Dec 26, 2011
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I had 2 glasses / 500ml of wine ~4 hours ago. Is it OK to ingest ~1500mg of acetaminophen?

BTW mobile wouldn't let me add a prefix so I couldn't post this in OD... Someone might wanna fix this bug.
 
jesus, i even considered adding a disclaimer "please, spare me of the standard whitepaper advice against this, i know it already" but i thought it wouldn't be necessary. :p just look at the amount of alcohol and timing i'm talking here.

the pills i wanted to take contain APAP and cannot be separated via cold water extraction.
 
Wont kill you but it wont be good lol. I'd wait a few more hours for your livers sake. That being said Ive taken many oxys, hydros, codiene, with apap and drowned them with alcohol. Just saying be careful for harm reduction sake. BTW, why cant you use cwe?
 
the pills are carisoprodol + APAP. the carisoprodol isn't water soluble so can't be separated from the APAP... i just have to accept it.

and yeah, i know, i know. i wouldn't do this but i was having terrible insomnia and needed something to help me sleep. in the end i took a smaller amount to be safer and fuck, here i am, still completely awake, 6 in the AM. tomorrow is gonna be a shitty day lol. at least i caught a small buzz...
 
I hear ya. I know what its like to have insomnia. Sorry it didn't do the job. I know it's not the same but have you considered Valerian, 5-htp, melontonin, things like that?
 
This should be fine for a one off, but only if it really is a one off. In terms of harm reduction this isn't really good to say but if you go to a hospital reporting acute APAP overdose under 7g, they won't even administer N-acetylcysteine, not because it's expensive or anything but because there really isn't any point. If your liver is healthy it can deal with big doses like this every once in a while. However you don't want to make this a habit at all as chronic doses of over 4g per day has a real risk of liver failure.

On another note, paracetamol is slightly water soluble (12.78mg/ml at 25 degrees celsius). Increasing the temperature more and more is going to boost this solubility up even more. Solubility of carisoprodol is 0.300mg/mL at 25 degrees celsius, considerably less and as such increasing temperature will boost solubility of paracetamol at a higher rate than carisoprodol. Even without increasing the temperature of your water if you use around 150ml of water to dissolve the the pills in (something you shouldn't do when extracting codeine/APAP because that works based on a principle opposite to this), this would be more than enough to dissolve all the paracetamol but only about 50mg of carisoprodol will dissolve in this which is a small portion of the original dose. Thus if you extract this mixture, you can throw away the filtrate which will be water, paracetamol and a small portion of carisoprodol. The residue which would likely contain most of the carisoprodol and binders can be consumed.
 
Aced has a very good point, you should follow that advice if the facts are correct. Anyway, I believe as a one-off it won't be too bad if your liver is otherwise healthy, just don't make a habit of it.
 
neurotic said:
jesus, i even considered adding a disclaimer "please, spare me of the standard whitepaper advice against this, i know it already" but i thought it wouldn't be necessary. :p just look at the amount of alcohol and timing i'm talking here.

the pills i wanted to take contain APAP and cannot be separated via cold water extraction.
Click to expand...

Hey neurotic! Nice to 'see' you again :)
 
nice to see you too Erik. mod of the dark side now eh? honestly fits you perfectly imo :)

and that's a great idea ace i'll have to try it next time. i tried to think a way out of the APAP myself but couldn't. do you have practical experience with chemistry by any chance? and while we're at it can one derive water solubility in mg/ml from logP values?

@crip i'm definitely going to try melatonin next... been meaning to do it for a while sounds as it looks like a great option
 
Not too much, no, why do you ask? There probably is a trend of decreased water solubility as logP increases but I don't know exactly what it is though. LogP is a logarithmic scale though, so a logP of 3 would be 100 times more lipophilic than a logP of 1, and as such a slight increase in logP would lead to a big decrease in water solubility.
 
I really don't get it why they don't just put some N-acetylcysteine into every acetaminophen tablet. It's essentially the antidote to ACAP overdose / toxicity from the NAPQI metabolite without affecting it's main pain-killing effects and NAC is really non-toxic.

They are discussing about making ACAP Rx-only here in Europe, but no one seems to see the obvious solution ...
 
In a lot of the tablets APAP is an anti abuse mechanism itself. If NAC was introduced into the tablets as well people would be able to easily just eat them and get high easily. I mean, this isn't necessarily a bad thing but if this was the intention the pill should just be made without the APAP itself.
 
dopamimetic said:
I really don't get it why they don't just put some N-acetylcysteine into every acetaminophen tablet. It's essentially the antidote to ACAP overdose / toxicity from the NAPQI metabolite without affecting it's main pain-killing effects and NAC is really non-toxic.

They are discussing about making ACAP Rx-only here in Europe, but no one seems to see the obvious solution ...
Click to expand...

As aced has said, the APAP serves as an anti-abuse mechanism, so as long as it remains to be immoral and a crime to wish to get high on (in many cases safer) drugs other than ethanol, caffeine and nicotine, we won't see any such additions which would prevent liver damage from chronic APAP use.

Neurotic, it is possible to predict water solubility from molecular structure and there are, unfortunately all paid-for, programs that can do that. I had one some months ago, but had to reinstall Windows and haven't reinstalled the program yet. Anyway, if aced has already provided you with solubility data, why do you need it?
 
Yeah, sorry, overlooked that it wasn't about pure APAP pills ... :) (which is really crazy shit to put some hepatotoxic drug in to avoid abuse.. hell, even the naloxone/buprenorphine is way better then..) but they still should add NAC into the OTC APAP pain killers.
 
Paracetamol does increase the efficacy of opioids, a type of synergy, so it's not just to deter abuse. Actually I remember reading that perhaps in UK they add methionine or some other substance that protects against the toxicity into APAP medication, but not sure about the scope of it. You're right though, APAP is among the leading causes of liver failure and liver toxicity nowadays so something should be done about that.
 
If naloxone was put instead of APAP in pain pills then the nal would block whatever opioid is trying to exert its analgesic action. Furthermore it would disrupt the endorphin system through a similar mechanism. I bet even a completely sober person would hate being given a shot of nal.

Now, adding NAC to APAP only pills is a great idea and would actually serve as an anti-suicide mechanism as well as preventing just accidental overdoses from not knowing the dosage required. And it is something more likely to really happen, although I'm not sure of the price of NAC and am unsure if many people would be willing to pay for the increased price.
 
Naloxone has insignificant oral BA, so if the pill is taken orally the naloxone is metabolized before it can do anything. Some pills containing only opioids have naloxone added to them to prevent IV use.
 
neurotic said:
:)
@crip i'm definitely going to try melatonin next... been meaning to do it for a while sounds as it looks like a great option
Click to expand...
I would recommend melatonin as well. Take 3mg and enjoy a nice sleepy time tea before bed. Shit works pretty good just make sure to avoid bright light as it kind of negates it.
 
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