today i was very sleepy, so i took 115mg of caffeine, and 50mg of Ephedrine. And i got really jittery and lots of energy. Does that count as a relapse? I was never into uppers, i liked heroin. But it feels kinda good. But was that a relapse? People in recovery all the time drink rockstars and monsters which has caffeine, so idk i kinda feel bad now what do you think?
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Anyone in recovery, or anyone does this count as a relpase?
- Thread starter Dr.kush
- Start date
jasonmp321
Bluelighter
wtf man? you said you were a heroin addict, did you go do a fatty shot of dope? No? Okay then, you didnt relapse!
NeighborhoodThreat
Bluelight Crew
I wouldn't count using caffeine and ephedrine as a "relapse".
AA meetings are filled with people who are drinking coffee and energy drinks which means lots of caffeine. I don't consider that to be relapse either.
AA meetings are filled with people who are drinking coffee and energy drinks which means lots of caffeine. I don't consider that to be relapse either.
Legerity
Bluelight Crew
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- Jul 29, 2010
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- 2,965
Relapse and sobriety are arbitrary terms that people can define for themselves. The majority of people who use the term "sober" to define themselves would not consider caffeine or nicotine to be a violation of their sobriety. I've never used ephedrine so I can't really comment on its effects but I would expect that it's more of a dirty jittery stimulation rather than something that people are prone to use heavily and crave.
If you notice yourself using caffeine or ephedrine as some sort of distraction, then just acknowledge this rather than categorizing them in some arbitrary category of "allowed" in order to permit yourself to use them. Personally, using too much caffeine can interfere with my well-being just as much as any other drug, so I try not to categorize anything for myself based on whether it is legal or not.
So to me what matters most is what kind of effect using them has on you. If using ephedrine allows you to justify using heroin because you no longer consider yourself completely sober anyways, then that wouldn't be helpful at all. Otherwise I wouldn't expect it to be much of an issue.
If you notice yourself using caffeine or ephedrine as some sort of distraction, then just acknowledge this rather than categorizing them in some arbitrary category of "allowed" in order to permit yourself to use them. Personally, using too much caffeine can interfere with my well-being just as much as any other drug, so I try not to categorize anything for myself based on whether it is legal or not.
So to me what matters most is what kind of effect using them has on you. If using ephedrine allows you to justify using heroin because you no longer consider yourself completely sober anyways, then that wouldn't be helpful at all. Otherwise I wouldn't expect it to be much of an issue.
Bojangles69
Bluelighter
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- May 20, 2009
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It would be a relapse if you were a caffiene addict that had sold your house and car just for another cup of joe. But since I doubt you ever did that, no.
However, for me, I can not use ephedrine because that would be considered a "relapse". And I haven't touched ephedrine in 10 years. Of course I use to convert it to crystal meth but many people do not realize that a very low percentage of ephedrine breaks down into amphetamine in your body. I think its like 4% I read the percentage somewhere. But when I use ephedrine it gives me a lot of twitchy/paranoid feelings quite similar to speed. My brain is wired to process the drug in a way where it feels like an altered/diluted version of speed. Of course nowhere near as intense, but using ephedrine for me I'd def consider a relapse.
However I drink coffee everyday sometimes 2 cups and never had any problems or associations with it to speed.
However, for me, I can not use ephedrine because that would be considered a "relapse". And I haven't touched ephedrine in 10 years. Of course I use to convert it to crystal meth but many people do not realize that a very low percentage of ephedrine breaks down into amphetamine in your body. I think its like 4% I read the percentage somewhere. But when I use ephedrine it gives me a lot of twitchy/paranoid feelings quite similar to speed. My brain is wired to process the drug in a way where it feels like an altered/diluted version of speed. Of course nowhere near as intense, but using ephedrine for me I'd def consider a relapse.
However I drink coffee everyday sometimes 2 cups and never had any problems or associations with it to speed.
As said above, it really depends on what YOU feel is a relapse for 'you'. What are you trying to be clean of? Was your goal, when you stopped using heroin, to 'just stop using opiates'? If so, then you've been sticking to your 'path'. If not - if recovery for you is being substance free (with substance being anything that alters your way of thinking or the way your body acts/reacts... which is a bit extreme and very 'varying' 
in itself) then you perhaps had a small back step.
Do you feel guilty over taking ephedrine? Did you take it to mask the urge to take heroin or an opiate? To relieve mental/emotional/physical distress from your recovery? In my opinion, all of these are factors that need to be considered to decide if you slipped up, or not.
In my honest opinion, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. It's not like you are hiding it, or feeling overly shameful (at least, I don't get that impression). Just accept it. make a decision as to what you want 'recovery' or 'being clean' to mean for you, and THEN proceed to either keep on the path you are on (w/ caffeine, specific stims such as ephedrine, etc) or decide to not use the substance again.
in itself) then you perhaps had a small back step. Do you feel guilty over taking ephedrine? Did you take it to mask the urge to take heroin or an opiate? To relieve mental/emotional/physical distress from your recovery? In my opinion, all of these are factors that need to be considered to decide if you slipped up, or not.
In my honest opinion, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. It's not like you are hiding it, or feeling overly shameful (at least, I don't get that impression). Just accept it. make a decision as to what you want 'recovery' or 'being clean' to mean for you, and THEN proceed to either keep on the path you are on (w/ caffeine, specific stims such as ephedrine, etc) or decide to not use the substance again.
nuttynutskin
Bluelighter
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- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 10,755
Not by my definitions, no. Like others have said the term might mean different things to different people tho. Hell, a vegetarian who breaks down and eats some meat could consider that a relapse. lol
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
This is what I would say,
Using some drugs isn't relapsing, unless it leads back to addiction.
itsok
Bluelighter
^thats what i think. the fact im not physically addicted and am not thinking about 24/7 and am starting to do activities not h centered and have friends who aren't iv h users makes me feel like I am succeeding even if i do chip every now and then. but some ppl who think different, but fuck them. I'm not hurting anyone and fucking up my life and therefore i dont feel guilty for getting a bit of relief or enjoyment every once and a while.
You define what is and isn't a relapse at the end of the day. If you subscribe to the 12 step definition, you are still making that choice (to believe that definition). Even within 12 step groups it varies, I've had old timers tell me that taking anti-depressants is a relapse!!! Thats dangerous.
Some consider having a non-alcoholic beer at dinner a relapse, I don't, but some do. Now, would I advise it to someone in the first 3 months? No. In fact, I wouldn't advise it to anyone. But I felt that it was okay to try after putting some time in, it didn't cause me to crave. However, NA beers have a very small percentage of alcohol in it (about the same as a glass of orange juice from a box that has sat in the fridge for a few days), so some think that you knowingly drink something with any amount of alcohol in it than it is a relapse.
I can understand people having such a strict definition, some people are so good at manipulating themselves they need a strict definition. Plus, many addicts tend to see things in black and white. You know the old AA saying "I think, thats the problem"... well I can understand why some people would say that. It terrifies me to hear it, but if thats what works than thats what works.
So basically what I am telling you is that if you do not feel it is a relapse, than it probably isn't. I am pretty sure you will know it if you do relapse. Just keep plugging along, don't be too hard on yourself and do what you need to do to stay healthy.
Some consider having a non-alcoholic beer at dinner a relapse, I don't, but some do. Now, would I advise it to someone in the first 3 months? No. In fact, I wouldn't advise it to anyone. But I felt that it was okay to try after putting some time in, it didn't cause me to crave. However, NA beers have a very small percentage of alcohol in it (about the same as a glass of orange juice from a box that has sat in the fridge for a few days), so some think that you knowingly drink something with any amount of alcohol in it than it is a relapse.
I can understand people having such a strict definition, some people are so good at manipulating themselves they need a strict definition. Plus, many addicts tend to see things in black and white. You know the old AA saying "I think, thats the problem"... well I can understand why some people would say that. It terrifies me to hear it, but if thats what works than thats what works.
So basically what I am telling you is that if you do not feel it is a relapse, than it probably isn't. I am pretty sure you will know it if you do relapse. Just keep plugging along, don't be too hard on yourself and do what you need to do to stay healthy.
I "chipped" for 7 years and it still came around to bite me in the ass. I didn't use dope, but I did use opiates. I would get on for one or two weeks than taper off. Over time it got worse and worse. I was also drinking about 3 to 4 beers every night. I didn't think about opiates or even drinking all the time.
I held down a job, didn't use anything at work and would only use after. I could even moderate my amount, as in if I had something to do the following morning I wouldn't drink or use all that often. That being said, after work and a workout, I had to have a drink, puff or sniff. Something to relax me and allow me to sleep. While I knew this was an issue, I never gave it much weight. It wasn't until the last year or maybe even six months before I realize just how much of an impact it was having on my life. I ended up having to detox and than put in alot of therapy work.
If people are worrying about you, than take heed. You are hurting them in a way, by causing them to worry about you. Be glad that you have people that do worry. My family and friends never abandoned me, and I am eternally grateful for that. They also let me know when I was fucking up, which didn't allow me to hide my problems from myself.
