dopemegently
Bluelighter
I agree about subsux, it's almost unrealisticaly negative. I mean PAW's lasting 2 years....?!
You have to wonder whether they have an agenda.
You have to wonder whether they have an agenda.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Anyone else like me? (bupe)
- Thread starter Rogg If
- Start date
I've always thought the negative feedback on bupe on bluelight and every other international drug forum is pretty much just prejudice. Well if you're on H then i understand bupe might be worthless, but definitely it has high recreational potential. And at least in this secluded northern European country it really is The Opiate which the public sees pretty much as bad as heroin, cause you rarely find anything stronger on the streets.
dopemegently
Bluelighter
I guess some addicts have such severe dependency issues, they have an extremely hard time getting off of anything. Maybe it's these types of addicts that make up a significant portion of the bupe "horror stories" we hear of, while the less dependent ones simply taper, quit, and move past it.
As for recreational effects, I guess I did get high off it many years ago, but for me it's a therapeutic drug only.
As for recreational effects, I guess I did get high off it many years ago, but for me it's a therapeutic drug only.
adder
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,851
Now having spent 9 months on the program, buprenorphine is something I began to hate. I hate the fact every day I have to put a pill under my tongue and hold it for 15-30 minutes. I hate it because it's like taking levothyroxine for hypothyroidism - you can't feel it, but if you stop taking the synthetic hormone, you'll soon start feeling terribly tired and drowsy. And it's the same with buprenorphine but consequences of taking it are really bad... Right now I'm somehow making it on 2mg, but every few days I have to take a higher dose to maintain the same level of "maintenance". I want to get off it as I feel I can do without buprenorphine and without opioids at all (well, if I can abstain totally, there's nothing like "one hit" when you're an opioid addict...). But the problem with tapering down persists. I now have only 8mg pills because I went abroad, so this was the only way to get me enough amount of Suboxone for the whole period of my stay. This is another obstacle - what if I were to stay abroad for a year? I would need such an amount that my doctor couldn't give me or would have to put some ridiculously high dose into my patient's card.
It was a godsend, because I wouldn't have made it through PAWS from methadone without an opioid. And Suboxone at the very beginning eliminated the withdrawal completely. But now it kind of scares me how tolerant I became to opioids in general. At the beginning I would literally feel how it numbs my pain, stronger than morphine or other classic opioids, but without the nodding euphoria. Now when I get a headache, there's nothing that helps me but marihuana... I don't even wonder how bad it would be having got off buprenorphine. I know it'd be hell on Earth, not better from methadone withdrawal at all, different, but I once had to stop Suboxone for a few days because of constipation. When the W/D started for real, I drank so much lactulose that my stool was pure water...
Even after all these years I still am of the opinion that there is nothing comparable to morphine's warmth, the feeling of being understood, safe, blablabla... Really, I'm sorry to admit that mentally it was closer to me than 99.9% of people I met in my life and had some relations with. It's more of a psychological problem for me now than physical, buprenorphine holds it somewhere in the middle, thus I'm fine. On the contrary, I've got a physical problem coming off benzodiazepines - I don't want to take them, I can feel how they make me sadder etc., but if I stopped today, I couldn't get up the day after tomorrow.
However, I still have some hope. Back in the days when I was in my young teenage years, I started from dissociatives. Yes, my peers at the same age either smoked marihuana or snorted amphetamine (not to mention alcohol) and I found relief in cough pills. Later when I got to ketamine, I realized I wasn't really playing with dextromethorphan, because it was readily available (actually it's as readily available as codeine here) but because it helped me with the pressure. I bet getting very deep with ketamine (or something less "clinical") once again could "reset" me from this deepening depression and the feeling of hopelessness.
It was a godsend, because I wouldn't have made it through PAWS from methadone without an opioid. And Suboxone at the very beginning eliminated the withdrawal completely. But now it kind of scares me how tolerant I became to opioids in general. At the beginning I would literally feel how it numbs my pain, stronger than morphine or other classic opioids, but without the nodding euphoria. Now when I get a headache, there's nothing that helps me but marihuana... I don't even wonder how bad it would be having got off buprenorphine. I know it'd be hell on Earth, not better from methadone withdrawal at all, different, but I once had to stop Suboxone for a few days because of constipation. When the W/D started for real, I drank so much lactulose that my stool was pure water...
Even after all these years I still am of the opinion that there is nothing comparable to morphine's warmth, the feeling of being understood, safe, blablabla... Really, I'm sorry to admit that mentally it was closer to me than 99.9% of people I met in my life and had some relations with. It's more of a psychological problem for me now than physical, buprenorphine holds it somewhere in the middle, thus I'm fine. On the contrary, I've got a physical problem coming off benzodiazepines - I don't want to take them, I can feel how they make me sadder etc., but if I stopped today, I couldn't get up the day after tomorrow.
However, I still have some hope. Back in the days when I was in my young teenage years, I started from dissociatives. Yes, my peers at the same age either smoked marihuana or snorted amphetamine (not to mention alcohol) and I found relief in cough pills. Later when I got to ketamine, I realized I wasn't really playing with dextromethorphan, because it was readily available (actually it's as readily available as codeine here) but because it helped me with the pressure. I bet getting very deep with ketamine (or something less "clinical") once again could "reset" me from this deepening depression and the feeling of hopelessness.
Adder, funny, I recently thought about using ketamine again to get "deeper", when I was using it (ok I was taking way too much but fuck it) I started thinking differently about my life and my issues, my traumas, gave me sorta new perspective, dunno how to explain. Give it a try man, I probably will.
Dooble has a point. It seems bupe abuse is non-existent in America while it is somewhat common in France (I went there and it's even more abused than in England), England, and I've read that it's the most abused narcotic in Scandinavian countries - as well as in some Eastern European countries. One of my Yank mates told me that only suboxone is available in the US but he might be talking shite.
Btw thanks a lot guys, I think writing on here is what made me think about my problem and got me to do something about it. Yous really helped me. I'm doing 0.4mg/day now, 2-3mg diazepam, and although I feel a little weird or tired sometimes, I'm feeling lots of emotions and am ambitious again, thinking about sorting my life out. I know I don't have to hide behind chemicals to do well or feel good, it's all up to me now. Man up! Only problem I've got is sleep, I have no problems falling asleep but wake up round 3-4am every night and restless legs, lie in bed until the morning comes, it's a bit annoying. I'm thinking of weed to help (and to kick benzos for good) although I've never been a big fan, you guys think it could work?
Dopemegently, its never too late to try man, you can do it too! Its not cos you felt weak in the past that you will be weak forever. Build up your strength. Seriously, there's so much to enjoy. I'm actually really laughing my arse off for the first time in ages watching Malcolm Tucker's, I can't stop laughing. It's crazy. I think tapering under 1mg is when you start proper feeling again. I mean, I also get sad, and when I get sad, its just as intense, but its worth it. And I feel like shagging everything in sight as if I was on e, no joking! haha
Mr.Scagnattie
Bluelighter
^^
Please use the edit function instead of triple and quadruple posting Rogg.
Please use the edit function instead of triple and quadruple posting Rogg.
Richyrich561
Greenlighter
ROGG,
We all have our war stories, none of them are pretty. Like DOPEMEGENTLY said, you are young and have a lot of time ahead of you. I was not implying that your younger age meant that you haven't experienced the hell of addiction, rather that looking forward you can take steps today that will allow you time enough to get an education, start a family, etc. Is it exciting to be a working class citizen with a kid and a secure home? Perhaps smoking crack in Somolia and having knife fights with your friends could be considered more 'exciting' but you have to look at the consequences of your actions.
I went to my 10 year old sons football game yesterday, with all the other square people, living a boring life, but the pride of watching my boy play football was a better feeling than any drug ever gave me. Plus I spent ZERO time looking over my shoulder for enemies or cops or other danger. What you refer to as boring could also be called having peace of mind. Lets face it, if we could smoke crack all day and shoot H every night with no consequences we probably would all be doing it!
Our forefathers didn't survive plagues and wars so we could shoot up brown liquid and ruin our bodies! You are lucky to be alive. You need to count your blessings and be grateful. Try praying to the God of your choosing. It helps! As the years have passed I've seen almost ALL of my childhood friends die, mostly due to drug use. I could fill 5 pages with stories of friends, some barely 20 yrs old who are dead because of drugs! So you tell me, boring? Maybe, but having peace of mind is PRICELESS! If you are bored go skydiving or something! Look away from drugs as a way to get your kicks. Focus on healthy things. Build on your career. Save your money. As time goes by you will realize that what you call boredom is really living a safe life without worrying about the consequences of risky behavior, and you will come to appreciate it.
TOMMYBOY is right about the sub-sux website. All the people whining about BUP have obviously forgot that it was BUP that allowed them to kick hard drugs! I don't see ANY of them saying they went back to methadone or H because that was a better alternative to BUP. Plus as drug addicts, we have learned to blame anyone and everything besides our own actions for our problems. That's as much in site as I get from the sub-sux complainers. If they think it sux they can ween themselves off easily. Then they will not have to deal with it anymore.
Again, ROGG, I would recommend that you stop obsessing over drugs, ween yourself off, stop snorting your SL pills haha and do healthy things. Really, its that simple. When you see police pass by enjoy the feeling that they aren't there looking for you. That's the kind of boredom I can live with!
We all have our war stories, none of them are pretty. Like DOPEMEGENTLY said, you are young and have a lot of time ahead of you. I was not implying that your younger age meant that you haven't experienced the hell of addiction, rather that looking forward you can take steps today that will allow you time enough to get an education, start a family, etc. Is it exciting to be a working class citizen with a kid and a secure home? Perhaps smoking crack in Somolia and having knife fights with your friends could be considered more 'exciting' but you have to look at the consequences of your actions.
I went to my 10 year old sons football game yesterday, with all the other square people, living a boring life, but the pride of watching my boy play football was a better feeling than any drug ever gave me. Plus I spent ZERO time looking over my shoulder for enemies or cops or other danger. What you refer to as boring could also be called having peace of mind. Lets face it, if we could smoke crack all day and shoot H every night with no consequences we probably would all be doing it!
Our forefathers didn't survive plagues and wars so we could shoot up brown liquid and ruin our bodies! You are lucky to be alive. You need to count your blessings and be grateful. Try praying to the God of your choosing. It helps! As the years have passed I've seen almost ALL of my childhood friends die, mostly due to drug use. I could fill 5 pages with stories of friends, some barely 20 yrs old who are dead because of drugs! So you tell me, boring? Maybe, but having peace of mind is PRICELESS! If you are bored go skydiving or something! Look away from drugs as a way to get your kicks. Focus on healthy things. Build on your career. Save your money. As time goes by you will realize that what you call boredom is really living a safe life without worrying about the consequences of risky behavior, and you will come to appreciate it.
TOMMYBOY is right about the sub-sux website. All the people whining about BUP have obviously forgot that it was BUP that allowed them to kick hard drugs! I don't see ANY of them saying they went back to methadone or H because that was a better alternative to BUP. Plus as drug addicts, we have learned to blame anyone and everything besides our own actions for our problems. That's as much in site as I get from the sub-sux complainers. If they think it sux they can ween themselves off easily. Then they will not have to deal with it anymore.
Again, ROGG, I would recommend that you stop obsessing over drugs, ween yourself off, stop snorting your SL pills haha and do healthy things. Really, its that simple. When you see police pass by enjoy the feeling that they aren't there looking for you. That's the kind of boredom I can live with!
RICHYRICH I am not snorting them anymore! I take them sublingually, and just 0.4mg/day! I'm thinking of coming off definitively within two weeks! I am not obsessed with drugs anymore, I enjoy waking up and not feeling like taking anything, just doing stuff that makes me happy, you see, I'm learning. I never meant that I didn't want to live a normal life, I just want to learn to appreciate it and like you said, be grateful for all the simple yet beautiful things in life. I think it's just nostalgia, of course it'd be shit to live like that again! Of course life's easier, safer now. It's just a transition period I guess.
Mr.Scagnattie
Bluelighter
Fully detoxed from both?
dopemegently
Bluelighter
Wow, nice going rogg! Are you having any WD's?
It probably doesn't apply to you now that you're clean, but 28 day detoxes, and even 6 month residential treatments, can be free on the NHS, but the funding allocation is dependent on factors like the degree of your addiction etc. To get access to this you need to become a patient at one of the drug centres (the places that give sub and meth replacement prescriptions). It can be very tough to get these detoxes though, as funding is quite tight in the UK.
Oh, and Rogg, I tried to pm you but your inbox was full, so you may want to delete some messages you don't need anymore.
It probably doesn't apply to you now that you're clean, but 28 day detoxes, and even 6 month residential treatments, can be free on the NHS, but the funding allocation is dependent on factors like the degree of your addiction etc. To get access to this you need to become a patient at one of the drug centres (the places that give sub and meth replacement prescriptions). It can be very tough to get these detoxes though, as funding is quite tight in the UK.
Oh, and Rogg, I tried to pm you but your inbox was full, so you may want to delete some messages you don't need anymore.
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It's still relatively easy to get bupre prescription in UK, but they tend to use it more of a tool for detox, rather than long-term maintenance, long-term meaning longer than a month/two. The thing is that many people take it to get clean initially, and then start abusing it, resulting in blocked receptors and using excessive amounts of other opiates on top to break through. By the time their detox is finished, they lose their motivation to get clean due to lack of mu' activity of buprenorphine. Bupre is not as good at taking away cravings as methadone, and I don't think it will ever be as successful at long-term maintenance.
The point is that bupre works best when it's used for short term, given out in calculated dose that will stabilize the patient for few days and then quickly reduced to zero. Funny thing is how long bupre stays in your system. I've been taking it daily for 3 months and after being absent for 4 weeks, it was still coming up as positive in my system. It's safe to say that it definitely doesn't take just 72 hours to unbind from the receptors, or anywhere near that time.
The point is that bupre works best when it's used for short term, given out in calculated dose that will stabilize the patient for few days and then quickly reduced to zero. Funny thing is how long bupre stays in your system. I've been taking it daily for 3 months and after being absent for 4 weeks, it was still coming up as positive in my system. It's safe to say that it definitely doesn't take just 72 hours to unbind from the receptors, or anywhere near that time.
^yesiree, the cravings are always there for me with bupe. Even when I try to take it more like a abused drug, I.E. breaking the doses up to 3-4x per day rather than 1 larger dose in the morning. So you can catch a little buzz each time. But that wears away quite quickly for me, like in 2 weeks. Then I am fiend-ing for dope again and I crack. At that point I think you gotta make the decision to quick and taper over the next month or so, cause IMHO it stops working to hold off cravings and you are better getting off it than fighting the cravings.
Yeah, true. It worked great for me for the first week or two, but then it just gets to the point where you wake up needing your dose of buprenorphine which only makes you feel normal and nothing more. The first week I felt like I could move mountains, very motivated and energetic but it quickly wears off and you realize that you were just high all this time. With bupre it's the same ritual of taking a tablet with expectations of getting a buzz, which reinforces the old habits because bupre won't get you high and you're left with those expectations that need fulfilling.
I think methadone is the best way to go if you want to stay medicated but without craving opiates. I was put on 4mg with a plan to reduce to 2mg within two weeks and then to zero within next two. By the time I reduced the dosage to 2mg, I was using it just for the high, not wanting to reduce any further. You have to be very motivated and determined about getting clean in the first place, so when you lose your everyday opiate glow on the background of your mind, you are capable of continuing your recovery without that high.
I think this is the hardest part about recovering from opiate addiction, because once you lose that everyday peace, serenity, motivation, positivity, energy and inspiration that opiates provide, you're left feeling empty. It varies depending on strength of opiates and time of using, but me personally after I quit opium, I was feeling emotionally numb, deprived of emotions, empty minded, lethargic and just overall unable to feel. Whenever I used opiates, I would instantly regain my inner-self and all my emotions would come back alive. It was a bit off topic as I'm a bit chattier today than I've been for months.
I think methadone is the best way to go if you want to stay medicated but without craving opiates. I was put on 4mg with a plan to reduce to 2mg within two weeks and then to zero within next two. By the time I reduced the dosage to 2mg, I was using it just for the high, not wanting to reduce any further. You have to be very motivated and determined about getting clean in the first place, so when you lose your everyday opiate glow on the background of your mind, you are capable of continuing your recovery without that high.
I think this is the hardest part about recovering from opiate addiction, because once you lose that everyday peace, serenity, motivation, positivity, energy and inspiration that opiates provide, you're left feeling empty. It varies depending on strength of opiates and time of using, but me personally after I quit opium, I was feeling emotionally numb, deprived of emotions, empty minded, lethargic and just overall unable to feel. Whenever I used opiates, I would instantly regain my inner-self and all my emotions would come back alive. It was a bit off topic as I'm a bit chattier today than I've been for months.
Right, I've been off the subus & benzos for a week now, took my last doses last Friday, which I tapered as low as I could (sub 0.2mg, diazepam 1mg). I felt ready and optimistic, and knew that from then on it was all up to me whether I'd fall back into my old ways or succeed. To be quite honest, the first day I was feeling pretty anxious and had bad tremors, and sleep wouldn't come so I sort of relapsed in my old boozing ways for a night and downed a bottle of vodka and several cans of cheap piss, and passed out. Woke up the morning after for work, feeling hungover like never before, worst diarrhea ever, and I felt like a fucking div for getting drunk cos it made everything so much worse. I went to work and suffered in silence, got some killer weed for free off a chef (how kind!). Since then I haven't drunk anything, been eating a lot - I feel hungry all the time, trying to keep my mind busy, making plans, going out see some friends even if I didn't really feel like it - it helps a lot.
I do smoke a few spliffs for sleep, never really liked it before, starting to really enjoy it actually! I don't see how it's a bad thing, I really don't see cannabis as a drug, let alone a harmful one. I reckon it's a million times better to smoke one to chill at night than to have to pop fucking addictive pills. I also use Loperamide for bowel movements (I can't control them, mad), paracetamol for headaches, ginseng/vitamin D/iron tablets once in the morning for energy (feeling kinda weak sometimes). Coffee (only one) and energy drinks help a lot too - but I try not to have any after 2-3pm so that I don't fuck up my sleep.
Not too bad, eh?
I do smoke a few spliffs for sleep, never really liked it before, starting to really enjoy it actually! I don't see how it's a bad thing, I really don't see cannabis as a drug, let alone a harmful one. I reckon it's a million times better to smoke one to chill at night than to have to pop fucking addictive pills. I also use Loperamide for bowel movements (I can't control them, mad), paracetamol for headaches, ginseng/vitamin D/iron tablets once in the morning for energy (feeling kinda weak sometimes). Coffee (only one) and energy drinks help a lot too - but I try not to have any after 2-3pm so that I don't fuck up my sleep.
Not too bad, eh?
Richyrich561
Greenlighter
Hey ROGG,
Good for you brother!
I'm very happy for you. Live long and prosper my friend!! Rich
Good for you brother!
I'm very happy for you. Live long and prosper my friend!! Rich
DARK REALM CONSP.
Greenlighter
Dude I hear you... it can really mke life alot easier when taken in small doses. Besides my pain, its help with migraines, depression, low blood sugar and a shy personality. But..if you really taper, and I mean taper..its not nearly as bad. Take breaks here and there over periods of time. Because you never know when the well is gonna run dry.