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Bupe Anyone else like me? (bupe)

Exactly. I've been on it 8 years, I'm healthy, well-fed and my lifestyle is financialy sustainable-if I were shooting smack I'd be in a different place right now I'm sure. My problem isn't suboxone; I have an "addictive personality", and that was always my downfall.
 
I hear you guys, buprenorphine can totally be a lifesaver. My only problem with it is it seems that after around 45 days on it I have long ago already lost the mood lift it provides...and I get hit with damn near crippling depression. Although...now that I think about it I did start IV'ing small doses 2mg and less around this time chasing more of the full agonist effects, this I believe increases the activity of the naloxone which can definitley induce depression. When I get my script next week I think I'm gonna stick with 4-8mg doses Sublingually a day, because to be honest I felt much better while using them SL. IV was just my needle fetish.. Ughhh I had 2.5 mths clean, money saved , energy and libido then starte injecting small doses chasing norbupe..got real depressed and used it as an excuse to relapse..now that was 2 mths ago.. Im broke. Paycheck to paycheck..only using sub to mask H WD, depressed and just no energy .. I gotta get back on subs for good..it really is so much better than being fuckin strung out.. I still fear the damage bupe maybe doing to our receptors w/ long term use though..reading more and more horror stories these days about it's wicked PAWS.
I pray for all my fellow addicts that these stories are not the norm for everyone who uses bupe for over a year +
 
Christ, the needle fetish...! It's what got me; I was in a bad place when I was shooting, for sure. The thing is that initial honeymoon phase is unfortunately temporary; it tends to plateau out eventualy, and you have to learn to live with yourself again. Trust me, I know how hard that can be. Your not alone though. The best thing about these forums is speaking to people who've been where you are; it can help a hell of a lot.

Edit: I also no how powerful a force fear of WD's is. Its kept me on bupe for longer than i had originaly planned. I'm trying to work on these issues, but it's not easy.
 
I understand completely those of you who say that bupe saved your life, and I agree it's a thousand times better than being strung out and having to hustle every day just not to be sick.

But there is a second category of people who started opis with bupe and got hooked on it cos they felt it wasn't really a drug. But it is, and fuck is it addictive. It takes a while but once you're in it, it's really fucking hard to find a way out. My first bupe habit lasted less than 6 months and I didn't expect withdrawals. I was in bed for 2 weeks suffering like never before. Even a month later I was suffering from such depression that I got back to drinking heavily everyday. I spent maybe 6 months without taking anything. But then I got involved in another drug scene, was taking opies on a daily basis, ended up owing loads of money, and when I took bupe again, I realized it saved me a lot of bother for something I've always thought was better than smack or anything. I dunno why, its just the way I felt.

Where I come from, the H is rubbish and a lot of people I know abuse subs, snort it, shoot it up, whatever. What I found out is that people who suffer from bipolar disorders (it seems I do) or alcoholism, for some reason, take a great liking of bupe and prefer it to skag.

Now I'm trying to come off the bupe, and believe me it's fucking hard. Since saturday, I've taken less than 1mg. And I've never felt so fucking low. It's not even the physical side of it (although it's bad too), I just feel so fucking low, I realize I've been lying to myself for years, that I've been numbing all my problems for such a long time that it's now hitting me bare hard. I feel hopeless. Today I was crying my fucking eyeballs out. Feel like my life is fucked, that the problem is me. I tried to hang myself, slipped, the noose loosened, I fell on my arse and cried at how fucking useless I am.

Dopemegently, I've been on it non stop (every single day) for about 2 years, but I've been using it for about 5 years.
I'm thinking of just drinking myself to a coma and not give a flying fuck.
 
ROGG,
Are you sure the rats and flys were just hallucinations? JK! I happen to agree with RAMBLIN when he asks if this is just in your head. Now before you get defensive let me address some of the things you have said. You are confused because you get the side effects from opiates, as a result of taking an opiate. I think it's safe to say that mystery kind of answers itself. You want to know if anyone relates to your love for BUP as well as your increasing tolorence. Again, the consensus seems to be that your issues are typical.

There are some things you have said that give a little in site as to your thinking. You state that you will prolly KILL YOURSELF if you don't get your BUP every day. I realize you didn't literally mean that but it is on the dramatic side. Saying you feel like killing yourself without H when you're strung out would be understandable. But BUP? You go on to say that you want to quit, you are a slave to it, IT'S RUINING YOUR SOUL? Yet you snort it instead of taking steps to kick, ie taking it SL as prescribed. If you're serious that may be a good first step.

I have had to kick H in the past and let me tell you what many of you know already. If there is a hell, the feeling of being strung out on H with no way to cop must be one of Satan's favorite torture techniques! Some of you know what it's like to kick H or even OC's and other strong opiates. BUP, my friend, is nowhere near the hell that kicking H is. Is it uncomfortable to kick BUP, sure, like a paper cut hurts, but a compound leg fracture REALLY hurts!

I've been on BUP for over ten years now. I got on to kick the hard stuff. Since being on, there have been a few stays in the local jail for a fortnight (2 weeks to my fellow Americans) and sure, it sucked, but really! It didn't hold a candle to kicking the hard stuff. My point is not to invalidate your very real feelings and experiences, rather I'm suggesting that you put them in perspective. You're a kid, riding a bicycle down the sidewalk and there's a big rock in the middle of your path. Some people ride normally and swerve around it. You are staring at it, making it bigger than it really is, and are inevitably going to hit it!

I take 8 mg a day and when I'm running low I sometimes even skip a day or two cuz I hate the two hour wait at the Dr office. After the hell of withdrawal from hard drugs, honestly, I scarcely get a twitch if I skip a day of BUP. It doesn't get me high, but it makes me feel like I WAS high and the initial 2 minute rush is gone. In the end that's all I was getting for slamming dope or OC's, etc.

When I first got on BUP back in 2001 there were no tabs, it only came in injectable form. For those of you that slam it, you may want to see if you can get the injectable, or if they still make it. Much better than cooking it then booting it. Very dirty business that is! BOUND to end up with Hep C, or worse! After booting H and OC's and all the other fun stuff, Dilaudid, etc, the small buzz ya get from BUP just doesn't seem worth the hassle.

So ROGG, if you are benefiting from BUP keep using it, AS DIRECTED. You obviously have conflicts going on inside that has caused all the space in your brain that this is taking up! Stick it under your tongue and go about your day man! If you wanna kick then first of all stop snorting it, and take gradual steps down to 2 mg a day then skip days and alas, you will no longer be a slave to it. And trust me, after 10+ years of taking it, the only long term effect I've noticed is that I haven't stuck a needle filled with H in my arm, which is quite the success for me! My soul is intact, hopefully, and if it isn't, its certainly not because I took a BUP every day haha. Don't make such a big deal out of it. Take it or don't. You won't die if you quit and your soul won't die if you continue. Stop staring at the rock in the middle of the walkway and just ride around it and get on with your life!
Rich
 
"Stick it under your tongue and go about your day, man!" I love it!
Although the entire post was spot on, I'm going to get this quote on a coffee mug. It just sums up my whole experience so nicely.
 
ROGG
I found out it caused withdrawals when my doctor gave me micrograms instead of milligrams, I was very sick for 2 whole weeks, and since then I've also feared coming off, so I feel what your saying there. It's fucking terrible your feeling so low now, but all I can say is the pain you're in is the body and mind healing itself: it has to feel bad before it can feel good again. I've also suffered from alchoholism (I went to detox 2 years ago). If you're thinking of going on a bender, you've got to think of the DT's, and remember how bad they were. Drinking heavily will destroy your body and make you a thousand times worse in the long run. I know it's a cliche, but it's not a solution to your problems. You feel bad now, but you ARE feeling again, and it means you WILL feel good again, I promise you.
 
I actually have been on it for 3 months and although ive gone from 6mg to 8mg I still definitely feel "high."
Not like "high" as in nodded out in front of the TV for hours but "high" as in a good mood lift, less anxiety, and a slight energy boost. This is the longest ive ever heard of a high lasting for anyone else but OP you seem to have surpassed me by years.
Maybe in some people tolerance just takes forever to build or something, who knows?
 
I know what your saying. Don't expect those positive effects to disappear though; after eight years I still get the pleasant warm feeling and mood lift, it just isn't intense as my first time (my tolerance was low, and god! I was charged up). It's a strange drug; you don't need to keep increasing the dose to get the same feeling- it's very different to traditional opiates.
 
Richyrich, no the rats and flies were DT's and definitely weren't real, otherwise the people around me would have reacted the same way as me instead of rushing me to the hospital. DTs are the worst thing you could ever imagine, and to be honest I'd choose opiate withdrawal over alcohol withdrawal any day. I understand what you say but I think our experiences are very different. I also believe there are different types of metabolisms and that people are not all affected the same way by drugs. Subsux.com is a website where you could read posts from people who had horrible experiences with bupe and will tell you the same thing as I did.
I did have periods when I preferred junk over bupe but those were short periods usually. I always felt bupe was affecting me deeper.
Also when I talk about killing myself, I tried to, quite a few times, in the past. It keeps popping up in my head but I force myself to think that life has so much to offer.
Dopemegently you seem to feel the same way as I do about the whole thing. I just want to be free from everything, to be able to get the fuck away from the city to fuck knows where tomorrow if I want to without having to worry about having pills with me. This is what being free's about.
Last night was a nightmare, but I only had 2 strong drinks. You're right, I don't wanna get back to where I was before, which was actually worse, the DTs still haunt me. I managed to sleep 4 hours but I kept waking up, shivering, shaking, and stomach cramps were pretty bad. I spent ages in the toilets and at some point fainted, I laid there on the floor, shaking like fuck. So far this morning was the worst, so I took what must have been less than 0.2mg and it made me feel slightly better. My idea is not to stop completely but to get used to the withdrawals so as not to be so scared and know how to deal with them & and to get my doses as low as possible until it's really just a placebo.As Rich advised, I'm stretching the periods of time without bupe. I'm now able to go through almost 48hours without anything.
I'm about to go buy some paracetamol-codeine tablets to see if I can do without even have to fix myself with tiny amounts of bupe. I've heard codeine withdrawal is pretty mild but I could be wrong. I was also wondering if there's any non-adictive subsitute for diazepam, as I want to get off that crap too. Diazepam (and benzos in general) is a godsend for ex-alcoholics but I believe it's actually fucking evil. I just want to get rid of the tremors. Any advice?
Dopemegently, thank you so much for your support mate, it really helps me and makes me even more determined. What medication were you given in alcohol detox? I remember taking naltrexone and something else, probably benzo, cant remember much. And yes, bupe is a very strange drug indeed, there ought to be more research done I reckon. Cheers.
 
ROGG,
Thanks for the website. I saw topics on how sub sux, also how benzo's suck and methadone sux and anti-depressants suck, etc. truth is that ANY drug can suck, and as you pointed out everyone has their own metabolism and reactions to different drugs. BUP, for me, is like wearing a nicotine patch to avoid smoking. At this point, for me, I'm about ready to stop taking them, or skip more days, as the chances of me booting H are very low at this point in my life. Remember, it's EZ to say SUB sux, but how much does it suck to inject brown liquid into your bloodstream that's supposed to be H but could be rat poison for all you know?

The chances of getting a little dizzy from BUP are not even in the same league as the consequences of slamming dope, or whatever the dealer has sold you as dope! At BEST you get strung out, and the consequences only get worse from there. Controlled drugs, in the past, were catagorized from class 2-5 depending on their strength. At that time BUP was a class 5 drug, the weakest, the same as Tylenol with codeine. The DEA have since reclassified virtually every narcotic as class 2, the strongest class, only to increase the potential prison sentences for addicts/dealers, pretty much perverting the classification system in the never ending 'drug war'.

The point is, if used properly, BUP can allow addicts to kick H or OC or whatever, without going through the hell of withdrawals. If the side effects of BUP are unpleasant then the option to ween yourself off is ever present, if that's what you think is best. Personally, I have had no neg effects from BUP what so ever. Kicking H is nearly impossible but kicking BUP is do-able. I'm not saying its always EZ but its certainly much easier than kicking hard drugs.

ROGG, I've read your posts my friend. Honestly I believe that you are a perfect candidate for a 28 day treatment program, if you can make that happen. It seems, as you have pointed out, that BUP is only one of many addictions that haunt you and your life seems to be lived around whichever drug, alcohol included, that haunting you at any given moment. Based on your posts I think you should reach out and get whatever help is available to you in your area.

I'm sure that anyone who thinks that sub-sux would have to agree that heroin REALLY sux, so lets not forget why it is on the market. Largely, the reason is that it makes it possible to kick H without getting strung out on methadone, another powerful opiate, and to make kicking more painless. It's nice to get advice on blogs, but I really do hope you get help for yourself. In the end, what really matters is that there is a lot more to life than drugs! Drugs, and their effects, seem to occupy a great deal of space in your life and mind. Take your BUP, as directed, then live your life bro! Do healthy things and find positive things to be grateful for, in your life. There are many people with worse problems than yours. Stop focusing on drugs, as best you can.
Rich
 
I used to do lots of smack and subs were great for w/d but never did shit in terms of a high even if I was only doing 1/2 a mg a day and did 4mg or something. After being in rehab for like 30 days (and on sub half of that time) 2mg got me high as fuck. Full blown high I had to take a gravol cause I though I was gonna puke. Even when Ive OD'd on dope recently I've never felt close to puking like I used to when I started doing opiates who knows how many years ago now.
Sub can get you high as fuck of your tolerance is low enough but even still I can get high from it for 2 or 3 days tops before tolerance kicks in and I barely feel anything, increasing the dose does not help, a few days off does, and before you know it I've got w/d symptoms and am right back where I started minus the needle in my arm.
I honestly didn't think I could continue to get high on sub long enough for w/d to creep in. I figured it would stop getting me high before dependence set in. Still I guess a couple mg of sub every few days is better than shooting dope multiple times a day, or maybe I'm just rationalizing if I learnt anything from rehab.
 
RICHYRICH
Thanks a lot for your reply. Yes there's a massive difference between an illegal addiction and a legal one and that the former's far more dangerous and changes your whole lifestyle. But it doesn't mean the legal one's a good thing.
Now you're saying kicking H is nearly impossible but kicking bupe is doable. I have a few friends - one of em has been on skag for over 20 years - who'd rather go through heroin wd than bupe wd and who so far haven't been able to come off it. One of the reasons is the length. The time it takes to feel normal again, to sleep normally again, breaks your willpower, however good your intentions are. I think both withdrawals are bad in their own ways and are quite different.
I'm happy for you that you're not having any side effects from it. Are you still on it?
I am 100% willing to get completely clean. I want drugs out of my life and I want to feel naturally happy, without chemicals. I want to feel like a normal person. The reason I am trying to get off the bupe NOW is because I've never been so determined and I think it's just the right time to do it, before I change my mind and start thinking differently. My mood is ok (as ok as it could be in such situation) now, but physically I feel pretty bad, zero energy, heart beating like fuck, I fainted a few times, and I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack. Sleep is getting worse. I can barely move. I drank some paracetamol-codeine (2tablets in a glass of water) to try to feel a little bit better. Using loperamide for diarrhea and another thing cant remember the name, for stomach cramps. Muscles twitching a lot. I took about 2mgs valium (nothing really but thought maybe it could do something), no great results (I'm also trying to get off benzos).
So far this week I have taken something like 0.4mg subutex (whereas last week I was still taking 6mg/day) and maybe 20mg dizepam. What do you think?
I am also really afraid cos I have to work this weekend and I don't think I'll be able to. I'm afraid to lose my room, as I've got nowhere else to go if this happens. I really want to get help and think a 28day treatment would be great but I dunno how I can keep my room and my stuff. I'm pretty broke at the moment. Pretty distressed.
 
Glad to hear you're attempting to get completely clean. Just don't rush it though, trust me, as you're way more likely to relapse. If you were taking 6mg a day I'd reduce to 4mg after a few days, then 2mg after a few more days, then when you feel ready move down to 0.8mg and then drop by 0.2mg every few days. This is how they get you off it in the residential detox I was in. They also start giving you nitrazepam at night to help sleep once you get below 1mg of suboxone a day. Like other people have said a 28 day treatment facility would be perfect for you, hopefully you can find one, cos my detox saved my life.
 
Richyrich

Great analogy about wearing a nicotine patch. I checked out subsux, and the whole site is overwhelmingly negative, although it would be unwise to disregard anecdotal evidence. My thinking has been clouded by these "horror stories" as many others have.

Some people just have dependency issues, and I include myself here. I know my issues have always magnified WD's to an extent they become unbearable. Some people don't have this: just look at all those smack-hooked GI's returning to the US after Vietnam; the vast majority cleaned out with zero treatment whatsoever, without relapsing. Statistics also suggest pain patients are far less likely to become psychologicaly dependent on their painkillers.

But this isn't me. So my question is; is it possible for a person who's been on suboxone for 8 years with an extremely addictive personality to gradualy taper off painlessly? I'm trying to find success stories on the net but they're hard to come by. Also, an inpatient program isn't a possibility for me; I'll be doing my long-term detox in the same enviroment I've used in for all these years, and I know that could make it more difficult.
 
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Sorry guys for going into so much detail and writing a lot, just wanted to make it all clear.
 
Not at all; it was a great post. You could have been describing my life there; it's kind of scary.....
Oh, and being young is probably the best thing you can be- you've got your whole ahead of you.
Thanks for posting your story rogg.
 
Rogg If said:
Here, RICHYRICH, have a look http://www.subsux.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76
Click to expand...

That site seemed to be too extreme. The one area I agree with is about why PAWS is so bad with suboxone compared to short acting opioids. They say it's because with SAO's you experience some normalcy a few times a day at least, when the drug is out of your system, but with bupe or methadone it's always in your system at moderate to high levels due to the long half-life, which means your body doesn't get a chance to achieve normalcy while you are on it. So when you stop it takes a lot longer to get back to normal since it hasn't experienced that in a long time.

Aside from that, they were too over the top with the whole 'never touch suboxone' attitude. They seem to forget how bad addiction is, and that a lot of people would never get off of drugs like heroin without the help of suboxone, and how putting a strip under your tongue once a day is a lot more manageable than supporting a dope habit. It seems like they are saying that everyone should take their chances out on the street and just hope that the won't die or end up in prison before they are finally able to stop on their own. If it was that easy then drugs like suboxone would not be necessary, but I think we all know that in many cases it is necessary so that people can use it as a tool on their way to abstinence.

Is it over-prescribed? Yes. Is it a bitch to get off? Yes.

However, with the proper knowledge about the drug, and using it as short as possible and at the lowest doses needed, it is worth it for many people as long as they do a proper taper to get off of it.
 
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