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anyone actually found enlightenment?

my thoughts on enlightenment are as follows:

as humans we can do nothing but experience
I have found enlightenment into certain experiences.
I have not found 'enlightenment'.

However, reaching enlightenment is why I'm still alive. It's like the rabbit for the grayhound, I guess.
 
sexyanon2 said:
honesly....if you are truely enlightened...you're not attached to posting at a forum everyday...sorry its the truth.The fact that you even try to argue this concept means you're not.

Why can't you post at a forum if you're enlightened?
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Forums are conducive of arguments. Since argument/debate is just another rat race, it is exactly what an enlightened being would be trying to escape/would have escaped(cycles of suffering).

Using wisdom gained from spiritual experiences for selfish purposes is also considered one of the worst things you can do karmatically.
 
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Forums are conducive of arguments. Since argument/debate is just another rat race, it is exactly what an enlightened being would be trying to escape/would have escaped(cycles of suffering).

Using wisdom gained from spiritual experiences for selfish purposes is also considered one of the worst things you can do karmatically.

Ah, i see. Although does debating always have to be a rat race? Why can't people debate to learn something from the opposing view? Although I guess you could tie that into a rat race..
 
sexyanon2 said:

Ah, i see. Although does debating always have to be a rat race? Why can't people debate to learn something from the opposing view? Although I guess you could tie that into a rat race..
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A debate/argument implies that there is going to be a winner and loser, and often times people are out to win not learn. Discussion is different in that the main purpose is the sharing of ideas.

Clearly different intentions.
 

A debate/argument implies that there is going to be a winner and loser, and often times people are out to win not learn. Discussion is different in that the main purpose is the sharing of ideas.


Ah, I see. But why does this forum need to be for arguments and not just discussions?

Doesn't matter, really. Just trivial semantics.
 
its not only for argument, its just that some people need to feel they came out best. not nessasarily winning, but not coming last.

others in the rat race turn to help their fallen rat friends so everyone can at least finish.
 
i can say i have.. but i dont want to talk about it.. when you find enlightenment, you find enlightenment.. there is no way of speeding up this process.. just remain intent on your journey, and you will find it.. nothing ever ever happens overnight..
 
How is anyone supposed to know what enlightenment is like?

Its impossible for there to be one such enlightenment. I mean i have found complete stability in my philosophies and msot likely they will dictate the way I live for the rest of my life, but who is to say anyone or I has found the true enlgihtenment, and if anyone claims to have done so, how do they now they have.
 
Really I wonder if writing about this is just useless sputtering, but it still feels like I should answer.

I had the short-term kensho experience, sometimes referred to as enlightenment, where everything that I thought of as "me" was gone and yet still here. There was just the flow of the universe, which was everything and yet nothing. I'm talking in all of these paradoxical phrases I despise, and yet straightforward words don't describe how reality works at all.

I also had several lesser satori experiences prior to this kensho experience, which I wanted to think were the real deal but clearly were not when I had the experience I KNEW was true kensho. Yes, I'm aware this raises questions about how I know that was the ultimate break. I don't have any great arguments I can convey over an internet message board, but I don't have any doubts either.

As far as full integration, or Enlightenment with a big E as it is sometimes distinguished in buddhist newsgroups, I am far, far away. I started with far more emotional stuff to wade through than the average person; it was in fact these difficulties that isolated me from the shallow attitudes that dominate current society, drove me to seek out the initial experience and gave me the courage (desperation? bottoming out?) necessary to let it happen. I've been working on gradually releasing blockages for a couple of years now and have made great progress, but so far it has been mostly on more limited aspects of my personality (lower chakras) that have to do with how I relate and previously related to life rather than ego death and nirvanic bliss. There's no way to skip up to higher levels in a permanent way that I have found.
 
Thanks for sharing this Moly.

I often wonder if the human experience is supposed to be unenlightened. We all seem to be learning and stumbling and learning.

Quite entertaining if you were doing it on purpose, like a stage play. Just having the experience.

I'm not a kid now and I've seen/ heard of quite a few "enlightened" masters get shot down by their own shit. Osho comes to mind as a classic example.

So maybe becomming enlightened is not the point but just experiencing the climb. Who knows? I don't plan on enlightenment in this life but great joy is a possibility. Living, Loving, surrender to now with all the chaos. Maybe this is life 101 and not such an advanced course as enlightenment. Would that make it any less important? Especially if we are that.:D
 
What I want is what I was put here with.

What I want is to remove the conceptual thought process which blind me from the truth.

What I want are like-minded people with the same intentions who want to expand their consciousness into depths of awareness no materialistic person has ever dreamed of.

What I want are travellers who will come with me; I will come with them, in silence with no words to speak in order to minimize the conceptual thought process which goes around in my head promoting unawareness and a false ego, attached onto it's false beliefs, blind judgements and rejected stereotype.

What I want with these travellers is to live in caves, huts out in the forest living off the land.

What I want during this lifestyle is meditation, yoga, mantras, silence, and plenty of other things beneficial to the spiritual being deep within.

What I want is to kill my ego and be born again into a new center, an open center which is capable of dealing with any materialistic force possible of breaking the emotional barrier laying between inside and out.

What I want is the removal of this materialistic society which is distracting me from what is real.

What I want after that is to come back to society, more aware of myself, my surroundings, the needs of this planet, and the crossroads of humanity.

I want to be reborn, growing up the way I want.

I am far from what I want.
 
I often wonder if the human experience is supposed to be unenlightened. We all seem to be learning and stumbling and learning.
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Yeah, it's been a long and rocky road. I'm an optimist that things are getting better, that people are slowly learning and opening up. Look at how much has changed since the 1950's - more freedom for women and minorities, the fall of the USSR, etc. Or the 1900's... yes there is war today but nothing on the scale of the horrors of the world wars. Or think what it would have been like to be a slave, or laborer for the robber barons. Things are far from perfect but I think they're slowly getting better. And they only get better if we're dissatisfied with the way things are now.

I think we're getting more sophisticated about how to climb for those who want to as well, and there's more information out there about genuine spiritual paths to compete with the fundamentalism and materialism that generally dominate. I know I would never be where I am today without the internet.

Osho comes to mind as a classic example.
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Can you elaborate on that a little? Some people are pretty high on osho while others think he's a fraud. Adi Da is a more modern and extreme example.

Anyway, I mostly agree with everything you wrote... I think in my case I bottomed out so hard that it drove me to climb very aggressively, practically spending a couple of years as a monk (though I've never joined any religious affiliation). As I've gotten more open and happier, my drive to reach enlightenment right! now! is definitely dying down.
 
its funny how some people seem to feel if you cant explain enlightenment it can't be real... and yet at the same time hear someone else say "love, you never understand until you're in it" and believe they will one day fall in love. no wait i'm wrong again, most people would claim otherwise :(

those people find their love so hard to explain, and yet we believe them, and accept the lack of ability to explain.
 
Everything but enlightment is completely inferior in everyway, yet you can get hung up on it. Enlightment aint death or boredom, you got it associated with joy and exctasy. Though its not just about knowing past lives, you can probably do that without enlightment. But of coarse many are trapped in a cycle of ups and downs, but the big E aint a happy medium. Its a whole nother ball game.
 
some times i feel like i've reached a point of clarity, only for it to disappear at a later point. I feel like finding a constant state of clarity (presuming thats a step to enlightenment) is almost an impossible affair due to the emotional fluctuation we all experience.
you could be feeling like you've almost cracked it, and then your back to square one.

I tend to believe theres four barriers between our current state and the enlightened state. some times i think im on the second stage, but then i always fall back. i like to think these things can be overcome, but sometimes i'm not so sure.

fear
clarity
power
old-age

to conquer one is to be presented with the next.
 
Yeah sometimes I have little moments where i get these crazy feelings, yet I wouldnt call them enlightenment. Like once I had the feeling that every person was their own gender. And another time I totally dissosciated from my body qhile I was sober with my eyes open at a dinner table, and I felt I just might as well bre anyone else. But I wouldnt call this enlightenment.
 
Void said:
Everything but enlightment is completely inferior in everyway, yet you can get hung up on it. Enlightment aint death or boredom, you got it associated with joy and exctasy. Though its not just about knowing past lives, you can probably do that without enlightment. But of coarse many are trapped in a cycle of ups and downs, but the big E aint a happy medium. Its a whole nother ball game.
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Do you base this on the fact that you are enlightened according to your statements above, or is this just a best guess?
 
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