Misc Any way to make ketamine more euphoric?

[getcolor728]

Try s ket its way better then regular k

I thought it was extremely hard to come by?

 

[getcolor728]

Regular is racemic. R ket is the other isomer, which probably is very rare to even find. Stop spreading misinformation, communist.

To OP: Mix it with THC and it's great.

Wish i could thc is a trigger to a condition i have. Thc makes me vomit uncontrollably

 

[getcolor728]

Perhaps by adding some OTC sustainable (important) opioidergics / 5-HT1a agonists / dopaminergics / alpha-2 adrenergic agonists?

Im sorry i might be retarted but i have zero clue what any of those are.

 

[Themailman]

S ketamine is more sedative . Rac gives a tad bit more energy or mania(its still quite low on rac) . Pces pcps supposed to give even more mania, something I dont think id prefer or really would prefer exploring them.

Ketamine is okay, after a while when used to it, its a nice body buzz, and good for inflammation, and temporily depression releif , and it can come back, esp if diet, exercise, sleep, and vitamins, minerals, and hormones aren't in check. Ime more fresher weed seems to make it more intense. Older weed maybe not.

My last (and probably final) run with K resulted in it severely disrupting my mineral levels and resulted in what I can only describe as an allergic type reaction. But yeah, like you mention, at that point it was causing and exacerbating issues like depression, anxiety, pain and health issues rather than helping remediate them.

 

[4DQSAR]

S ketamine is more sedative . Rac gives a tad bit more energy or mania(its still quite low on rac) .

As I stated, esketamine is an NMDA angagonist, (R) ketamine is a dompamine modulator people commonly compare to cocaine. So raecemic ketamine is 50% of one and 50% of the other.

Sooe people do seem to prefer (S) ketamine but I'm convinced the massive addiction rates are driven by the presense of (R) ketamine, as if it's essentially similar to cocaine but at less than half the price and a longer duration of action, that's a huge issue.

I saw people who used K in the early 90s and it was something some people would use once a week. Now we see single dose units being sold for a few quid hence school children being the largest user demographic.

 

[placebonaut]

esketamine is now preferred for medical uses

is it? I thought the vast majority of medical and veterinarian uses is of racemic

(R) ketamine being 'cocaine like'

I wouldn't describe it as cocaine like at all, very different buzz, and I didn't think they worked on the same receptors or inhibitors?

Some people love low doses of k. Little bumps or a line or two and then just small bumps

A few bumps is fun, so is a k-hole, different scene, different time, different mood

 

[4DQSAR]

@placebonaut - good point well made. I hadn't considered vetinary use. Since animal medicines aren't subject to the extreme standards of human medicines, I wonder if that's how it's done? People obtaining an importantion licence, running up fake sales (so pay appropriate taxes) and then sell on to de facto drug dealers. Yeah, I need to check that out.

I admit, I was surprised to discover that quite a few medicines no longer used in man (or in some cases NEVER used in man) were vetinary medicines.

As to the specific mode of action of (R) ketamine, I can only provide what I was told and subjective is always going to have that YMMV issue. But both act on the dopamine transport but it's unclear if it's VMAT2 and/or PMAT.

I suggest the subjective difference is that ligands that act act primarily PMAT seem to produce far fewer physical side-effects. Fencamfamine, phenmetrazine and pyrovalerone are all examples of ligands that have little or no VMAT2 affinity and all were used medically for a few years before it became apparent that their abuse potential was huge. Using pins apparenly delvering an unholy rush.

I know that the very first 'speed epidemic' that 'damaged society' was phenmetrazine in Sweden in the 50s-60s. In 1952 it was a [P] medication, by 1955 it was a [POM] medication, by 1958 it was a [CD] and was withdrawn from sale in 1959 although due to a loophole* was available until 1965 when it became a criminal offence to supply under any circumstance.

*Pharmacists who still had the original [P] formulation in stock were allowed to sell them off but grey-market dealers were producing fakes of that formulation (livery, PIL and so on - very good fakes) and it took a while for law enforcement to work out how it could be that so many pharmacies had seemingly bought a 10 year supply.

But once again - many thanks for you input. It is very much appreciated.

 

[JitteryKitteryDoo]

Where I am in the UK the batches of ket vary wildly from one to the next. They always tack a label on it, either S ket or racemic but I find there to be barely any way of telling what kind of experience it'll be. I've had s ket that was super stimmy, to the point of discomfort, and I've had racemic stuff that had a tendency to pull us towards a hole without even taking big doses.

 

[4DQSAR]

@JitteryKitteryDoo - well, I was genuinely shocked to discover that the world's largest on-line API market has vendors offering (R) ketamine! It has NO medical uses whatsoever.

My hypothesis is that when esketamine became favoured, at least some manufacturers tried to stay in the market by accepting that their production-line could still be used EXCEPT that after synthesis, the esketamine has to be resolved i.e. 50% is 'waste' arketamine. With large factories, it can take decades to earn back the investment and I suspect that it's unofficially known that arketamine isn't 'waste' but has an actual market value and with no laws explicitly controlling (R) ketamine, they just saw a legal way to make a profit from that 'waste' and to stay in business for long enough to cover the investment.

The more I look at the world ketamine market, the more surprised I am that so little control exists. I don't think a synthetic can retail at £20 unless it's extremely competitive and at huge scales so if esketamine isn't as popular, you may well have criminals buying both esketamine and arketamine and mixing them to produce the preferred (by most) raecemic product.

As I said, it's a shame that isophenidine got 'lost in the noise' because it's in theory a vastly cheaper alternative. I mean a 1-step room-temperature synthesis using two unwatched precursors, two unwatched solvents and two unwatched co-reactants. BUT scale is always KEY. It would take someone a while to work up to multi-tonne scales if only because that's the realm of chemical engineers rather than medicinal chemists.

If a reaction is SLIGHTLY exothermic, you wouldn't even detect it when producing 50g batches but at 5000kg that heat would need active management.

Plus of course, it's an open question as to isophenidine's legal position. It was discovered and documented before the UKs NPS laws so is it novel? Because how a law that in theory would make isopropanol illegal (drinking rubbing alcohol isn't uncommon among alcoholics) can work almost seems to be whatever the desired meaning is in a given case.

I have concluded that if dextromethorphan can be a [P] medicine while levormethorphan is a class A drug, UK law absolutely CAN treat optical isomers as two different drugs so making arketamine a class A drug would, I suggest, stop all of the current importers.

Of course it won't happen because the ACMD is hyperfocussing on people 'acquiring' esketamine-containing medicines and seem to have totally ignored the huge problem we have with ketamine.

I'm a firm believer in the fifth freedom but if K can be anything from pure esketamine to pure arketamine, that is not great. I note tiletamine was similarly exempted from the Markush-stucture based ban on all cyclohexylamines and that it has been misrepresented as ketamine. Now what the two isomers of THAT are like, I don't think anyone knows so if you play the 'mystery powder game' then I guess tiletamine cut into arketamine might be a cheap way to compete.

I'm too old to really understand how the UK ketamine market evolved but in spite of it being a class B drug, if it's as profitable as selling a class A drug, that's what importers/distributors term 'risk management'. If kids can buy a wrap for a few quid and UK law tends to avoid giving people under 18 criminal records, I suspect that the picture is fragmented.

I just know too much about how producers and distributors think. At best it's total disinterest, at worst they LIKE to cause harm - to 'play god'.

 

[placebonaut]

My hypothesis is that when esketamine became favoured,

I'm still a bit confused as to why you think esketamine is now favored, everything I read indicates it's racemic that there's much more of around - and that would make sense because it's cheaper to produce and given it's application it works for both medical and rec use, so why bother to produce esketamine if there's no clear benefit given the additional cost.

true esketamine might be growing in popularity in the US for ketamine therapy (FDA approved now I think), but racemic is used for anesthesia commonly globally, and that dwarfs the therapy side of things.

not saying you're wrong, genuinely interested in what info/sources you have.

the DNMs are full of ket, every time I order I'm pretty sure what I get is racemic, it's uncommon to find esketamine for sale, and very rare to find arketamine, but both are available - doing the pepsi challenge with the 3 is pretty clear in my mind which is which.

I just know too much about how producers and distributors think. At best it's total disinterest, at worst they LIKE to cause harm - to 'play god'.

they just want money

 

[JitteryKitteryDoo]

It's like with the kratom market. There are all these fancy labels and strains to choose from, but it doesn't make much difference to the experience, they just want to get rich off of people's lack of knowledge.

 

[4DQSAR]

I'm still a bit confused as to why you think esketamine is now favored.

Medically.

The ACMD is focussing on legitimate human medications containing esketamine while being totally oblivious to the fact that due to a loop-hole in the law, raecemic ketamine is the cheaper and more often encountered form seen on the black market.

It's so fragmented because it's the Vetinary Medicine Directive that is resposible for medicines used to treat animals. A wholesale licence (import, export, sale to appopriate UK based manufacturer of animal medicines) costs £344 and then £427 per annum. They phycially come to your 'office' and just check it's secure and has an appropriate lock-box* which is a one-off charge of £1177.

But here is the tell. For the whole of Great Britian, the VMD has 213 employees. So how many of them are likely to be inspectors? Since they also inspect every vetinary surgery in Great Britian, that is NOT a lot of oversight. The form even states it may take 90 days for an initial inspection from which one may infer that there are so few inspectors that they only check on your business if they are already in your area.

I suggest that as long as you 're-export' the product and have digital reciepts, who can check? I note Uganda and Democratic Repubic of Congo are the largest importers of ketamine (at least on paper) but there are four African nations with ongoing civil wars and three more where their respective governments don't control significant parts of their nation. So even if a VMD inspector trys to check with their counterpart in the 'end user' nation, nations with civial wars cannot answer - likely have no oversight but it only took 10 seconds to note those two African nations are apparently importing hundreds of tonnes of ketemine per annum - out of all proportion to their size and even their human population.

I might add that almost all of the redirected ketamine goes via the UK which when you consider the above, should be no surprise.

Oh, and one more wrinkle - a business can be a 'virtual wholesaler' which means they never actually handle the API and guess what? All that requires is record keeping. So it's almost certain a lot of people are paying the £344 and then it's just £125/annum. So if you never intend to sell product in the UK, it's even questionable as who what law(s) you may have broken in what nation(s). I suggest Uganda and the DRC would not have an extradition order accepted because, well, they torture people.

It seems as if the only actual bar is putting your real name and address onto some forms and accepting that someone will come and check you have a lock-box and keep records. If you just set up, what records would you have? So pop up, do it for a year, close down. Start again with new name at same address(es). Ridiculously easy - if I can find this on the internet I'm damned sure people who do this stuff can do just the same.

*BS 2881:1989 (Security Level 1)