Misc Any pickles here who became cucumbers again?

[oxyaddict05]

I had a pretty gnarly but relatively short addiction. Did the whole OC --> IV heroin --> speedball thing over the course of 3 years. In those three years, I got MRSA endocarditis, went to jail once, and went to 3 rehabs.
The funny thing was I never really felt powerless because I wanted it. Something about that life on the edge really attracted me, even when it sucked. Don't get me wrong, there were days when I was absolutely powerless over heroin, and especially IV cocaine. That said, I'm a pretty smart guy and had no illusion of what I was getting into. I suppose this comes down to philosophy then: If you willingly accept and enter a state of powerlessness, are you powerless?

Semantics aside, it was almost like a phase of my life that I wanted, and hoped I would be able to get out of when I wanted to get back on track. I go to an Ivy League University and have a very bright future. I am only saying this to show you what I mean. I didn't use because things were hopeless. As weird as this sounds, I was sick and tired of the values those around me had (f#$% the moment, all I care about is making money so I can get into the top nursing home one day and spoil my offspring.) I had a feeling that a gnarly heroin addiction would give me a new perspective and appreciate life far more when I got out of it.

Of course this is the invincible 19 year old mindset that is so irrational and naive. I'm 25 now and laugh at that. In fact, if I had a time machine, the third thing I would do would be to go back 6 years and beat my own face with a wiffle bat. No real bat. Don't want to ruin my chances of getting laid.

So one day 3 years ago I was in jail, waiting to get out the next week on prop 36 and get my case dismissed after completing rehab (I don't really want to mess up my life with a felony now do I? <-- sarcasm) when a guy in my cell told me I should get my life back on track and have no business doing anything illegal because of the opportunity I was blessed with.

It's one thing when your parents or drug counselor tell you this. It's quite another when a gang member waiting trial for murder tells you this. So I listened to him, and put everything I had into being sober. With the help of AA and a rigorous impatient rehab facility, I have been off dope and happy every since. By happy I mean happy enough to not want to inject heroin. Obviously life isn't always great, but it has been manageable and each day is a gift. Even if I often forget it.

So here I am, and have successfully completed my first year back in school. I started smoking weed again last summer, and put off drinking until the year was over. That was 3 weeks ago.

The weird thing is I put my life and trust into AA, and working the steps gave me my life back. It also made me realize what an ignorant and selfish prick I was in my actions. I always hated being like that and had great values. My actions, however, spoke differently, and that is what matters. So now I am smoking weed and drinking occasionally, and none of those horrible things have happened to me. No cravings. No disastrous personality or emotional changes. Have zero desire to use anything hard ever again. (To me, a hard drug is one that replaces my current state with euphoria, no matter what that state may be. Or, is inherently more dangerous in its effects and acquisition). My point with that is that for some people, video games can be a 'hard drug.' This is my own definition, so of course its wrong to many others.

Has anyone else here been saved by an anonymous program, only to use something again regularly and still feel OK? I am not looking for justification to use or use 'harder' drugs. After having to work my ass off to have high self-esteem by doing estimable acts on a regular basis for 3 years, things like heroin have zero appeal.

I suppose I am more concerned that I am once again deceiving myself. I will say that there is nothing to say that I am except for the fact that the people and program that saved my life burned that 'prophecy' into my mind. Also, I have proven my capacity to be absolutely wrong before, so it's always possible and I wouldn't know it by definition.


I just had a really serious talk about this with my old sponsor, so I tried to be a little light and funny in this post. I generalized everything and made light of things; but for real, things were very, very bad.

Part of me thinks that, similar to mice in a pleasure reinforcement study, I was naive and messed with arguably the most addictive substances on earth. The other part of me thinks I have the mentality associated with alcoholism.

After all, every single mouse hit the morphine/cocaine lever until starvation, as they neglected the food lever (Only one could be used at a time, with a timed reset for both, IIRC). EDIT: Now mice as an entire species cannot all be afflicted with alcoholism, right? I use that word in the AA context, so drug addiction in some cases also applies.


Sorry, I don't really have a solid point. I really just want to hear others' experiences and/or opinions. I also miss this board....it's been a while :D

 

[pbuilder]

I like cucumbers more than pickles so your analogy doesn't work!

kidding pickles are better.

 

[oxyaddict05]

^

Such is the danger of threads with no real direction.

Sorry, I was kinda venting because I am sitting on my couch right now on campus debating whether to go to a meeting and restart my old AA ways, or go out and drink with some buddies. Normal college students are the exact opposite of those in recovery. There is something about being honest about ones' judgements that makes it so much more tolerable. Plus, I am 25. Everyone around me is 18-21. GRRRRR. Everything would be fine if the firing range was open. Nothing like the raw manliness of a semi auto to help clear the mind. Well I suppose a belt fed machine gun would be better. Or heroin! haha Just kidding........kinda

 

[PeacePipeChief]

I also in a very naive ignorant way got into IV ice addiction at 16 , I knew I was gonna be trying something really hard , not that I would become a full time junkie from the first shot though .

However after only a year I have got myself clean (only for 2 months then used once and been clean for another month and a half , that was after a 4 month period of weekend use .

I also feel like it was a period of my life where I got out there , tbh I loved it , ice felt great shit was fun . But at the same time my world was crumbling around me .

Now that I dont have a need feel to use at all , I still see using worth it somehow and plan to use in the near future with illusions to myself that I can just get some far away and go home and all will be sweet . Just hope I don't find any at home .

 

[oxyaddict05]

Do you mean tweaking again?? Or, a different, less 'harmful' drug? I know I could never enjoy an occasional heroin or cocaine injection again. Even if I didn't get hooked, it would make everything in my life suck just by comparison. For me, that is. Everyone's different that's for sure.

If someone told me that before my first relapse, it wouldn't have mattered if I believed them. I HAD to find out on my own, otherwise every day of my life I would be thinking about the what ifs.

 

[pbuilder]

^

Such is the danger of threads with no real direction.

Sorry, I was kinda venting because I am sitting on my couch right now on campus debating whether to go to a meeting and restart my old AA ways, or go out and drink with some buddies. Normal college students are the exact opposite of those in recovery. There is something about being honest about ones' judgements that makes it so much more tolerable. Plus, I am 25. Everyone around me is 18-21. GRRRRR. Everything would be fine if the firing range was open. Nothing like the raw manliness of a semi auto to help clear the mind. Well I suppose a belt fed machine gun would be better. Or heroin! haha Just kidding........kinda

it's okay if i was sober i woulda read the whole thread, but i know sometimes when high (are you high?) that it feels great to right a thread with no real direction.

 

[oxyaddict05]

Well I don't do anything but weed and very very recently, alcohol. And I'm in no place to get high now lol. I really need to think about which direction I need to take. Then I can smoke weed all day! lol But I feel you man. I laughed when I read your comment, despite a lack of expressed loling on my part.

 

[BiggDirty01]

@OxyAddict05

Please be careful in adding alcohol back into your life. I know for me, after the opiates I drifted back into weed...then drinking some....and eventually found myself rationalizing in a very convincing fashion that I could use like a gentleman, I look back now and realize that my addict brain was negotiating a relapse to opiates the second I convinced myself that I would just smoke weed and nothing else.

You might think this will never happen to me or "I am too smart for that to happen" but just let me remind you (from a fellow smart guy/big name university student) that it did to me. Addiction does not discriminate between a persons IQ

Please feel free to PM me, I really can identify with where you are what you are saying.

 

[Effuzion]

You said you've been having no cravings, yet you made this post today after just recently trying drinking and smoking weed again. I think that says it all.

As an ex heroin/oxycontin user, every single time I've tried to drink it just makes me go "fuck, this is why I was an opiate addict. Drinking sucks." And then I go find some opiates.

 

[oxyaddict05]

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I didn't clarify, but I have been smoking weed the last year, year and a half. Nothing else (other than the several times I drank in the last 3 weeks) for over 3 years. I started drinking recently. But the issue is resolved! I wasn't really upset tonight.... I was more in deep thought about what I wanted to do. Either go back to the recovery community, or remain with the 'normies.' I was talking with a friend here who is a normie and I felt a lot better. Even had a beer with her later.

My main issue is that I am an almost 25 year old experienced drug addict surrounded by nice sheltered 18-21 year olds in an Ivy League University.....Adusting to this takes times. Some of my old friend carried guns and injected meth/heroin/coke. My new friends carry textbooks and get all excited over the occasional line of coke. Being that I just came back to school after being gone more than 4 years, my whole scene is gone. As I only have a year left, I can't really bond with people like I could have as a freshman. Basically, my question was either to accept that, or remove myself completely and only associate with those in recovery.

Just needed to get out of my head for a bit!

BiggDirty I understand what you are saying. I actually believe intelligence makes using a much riskier affair. Not only this, but my cravings used to 'hijack' my intellect to rationalize my using! So if anything, I think being smart is a handicap in this regard. If I was dumber, maybe I could have just accepted that 'drugs are bad' lol. Instead I was able to outwit my therapists by drawing loops in their logic. Unfortunately, addiction is an illogical affair, and applying logic was a recipe for disaster and very quick progression in my case.

But thanks for the advice. This is a serious matter and I cannot afford to be cavalier. I have been talking with my drug counselor here about the several times I drank. Can't have any secrets. Not this ex-junkie.

P.S. Where in LA are you from BiggDirty? That's my hometown.

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

Oh most definitely. I have a blog post here detailing part of it. I'm going to be adding a few more blog posts to talk about my recovery more in-depth.

 

[PeacePipeChief]

That's really interesting with the whole 'hijacking your thoughts' and rationalizing using . I never though about it until now , but whenever I think about ice/get a craving I somehow manage to rationalize a way to use shortly after , as a trip somewhere or something where I can access it , far away so I'm 'going for a trip' but actually I'm going to see mates to get fucked up and 95% chance of using ice , and I know this lol . But I'm really keen to 'see my mates' regardless :D

I know what u mean by remaining with the normals , I feel like I'm in The scene which will make me relapse , and I still speak to them like family since I've moved .

I'm now surrounded by pot smoking , drinking , naive , obnoxious 19-21 year olds are my main circle , and heaps of others from 18 months - 45 lol .

I'm used to my mates in either dodgy ass ripped up jeans and hoodys , or lads rockin the nikes (Tns/shox/air max are my favorites) and the sports gear . All carrying knives usually , few with guns , some psychopaths in the mix , bikies , prostitutes , drug dealers , All carrying drugs at most times (except the junkies cause we already used it all)

The people here are so taboo to my passion for drugs , it's really hard to adjust to such arrogant close minded people , they're alright though lol has really bought back my love for weed and alcohol .

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

That's really interesting with the whole 'hijacking your thoughts' and rationalizing using . I never though about it until now , but whenever I think about ice/get a craving I somehow manage to rationalize a way to use shortly after , as a trip somewhere or something where I can access it , far away so I'm 'going for a trip' but actually I'm going to see mates to get fucked up and 95% chance of using ice , and I know this lol . But I'm really keen to 'see my mates' regardless :D

I know what u mean by remaining with the normals , I feel like I'm in The scene which will make me relapse , and I still speak to them like family since I've moved .

I'm now surrounded by pot smoking , drinking , naive , obnoxious 19-21 year olds are my main circle , and heaps of others from 18 months - 45 lol .

I'm used to my mates in either dodgy ass ripped up jeans and hoodys , or lads rockin the nikes (Tns/shox/air max are my favorites) and the sports gear . All carrying knives usually , few with guns , some psychopaths in the mix , bikies , prostitutes , drug dealers , All carrying drugs at most times (except the junkies cause we already used it all)

The people here are so taboo to my passion for drugs , it's really hard to adjust to such arrogant close minded people , they're alright though lol has really bought back my love for weed and alcohol .

Great post man! I used to to the exact same thing when it came to rationalizing doing oxy. It was always something like "Oh, I'm going out, I better boot up before I go out so that I can be sociable" and I'd always bring a few loaded syringes with me so I could continue to rationalize my use.

Hanging around normals for me is so damn weird. They just simply don't understand what it's like to "live the life" associated with hardcore drug use. They think that smoking pot or doing the occasional Percocet makes them expert drug users. I remember somehow getting myself involved with the fundamentalist Christians who all talked about when they "lost their way" and "went bad" and drank, did drugs and God forbid SMOKED CIGARETTES. They pissed me off to no end because they were just so clueless. When I told them my story about what hard drug use is really like and the people that you meet and associate with in that life, they were terrified. They would ask stupid questions like "What's it like to be around someone carrying a gun?" my response: "Pretty normal, actually. Just don't piss em off". These fundies never knew what "going bad" was really like. I'm 2 years clean now and I still have SO much trouble associating with people that don't use or at least don't use heavy. It's just that I can't adapt to their mindsets. In a way, I really liked living on the edge, but unfortunately, that had to stop. Oh and another thing, these fundamentalists talked about hitting rock bottom. I had to fight hard not to laugh at what their idea of rock bottom was. Anyone that's used hard knows what rock bottom is really like, and it's not something we go around telling stories about in church social groups, IMHO. Just my 2 cents.

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

^

Normal college students are the exact opposite of those in recovery.

Truer words have never been spoken (well, typed). I finished my first Master's degree immediately after getting clean. How I pulled off doing most of it with a needle constantly in my arm is beyond me (I avoided the other grad students and hung around with my user crew). I'm going back for a second Master's, this time with a completely clean and sober head, and you know what? You'd think I'd be excited and full of hope, but I'm terrified. I may be clean, but it's the thought of just not knowing how to fully fit in with normal graduate students and adjust to the stress of a rigorous program without running to the pill bottle. Sure I'm on a sub program and get piss tested weekly and everyone says that "It's been 2 years now, you should have willpower", but still, I'm scared shitless. I know who I can count on for support and I live by the "People, Places, Things" principle in recovery, but I'm just so clueless as to how to act around normals. I'm not saying I'm socially inept, it's just that I spent 10 years of my life with users, so I know what makes users tick and I have a very specific idea of what a good time is to me. I can't size up normals as well and I don't know what they think is a good time, nor do I think I'd have fun with it at first. This is going to be the true test of my commitment to sobriety. It's just scary shit man. The irony is that I wasn't afraid to hang around with users, but I'm afraid to hang around with harmless grad students......

 

[PeacePipeChief]

I was referring to normals as normal to me haha cause the rest of the world is pretty wtf to me , but normal people I can get along with , they just don't get it , and have stupid views on everything , uneducated , almost always immature perspectives on even slightly harder drugs .

My main problem with the new group I have found is that they know about my past , and they just say stupid uneducated shit , and I can't speak to them the way I'd speak to my friends who are much more understanding , open minded ... And intelligent .

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

I was referring to normals as normal to me haha cause the rest of the world is pretty wtf to me , but normal people I can get along with , they just don't get it , and have stupid views on everything , uneducated , almost always immature perspectives on even slightly harder drugs .

My main problem with the new group I have found is that they know about my past , and they just say stupid uneducated shit , and I can't speak to them the way I'd speak to my friends who are much more understanding , open minded ... And intelligent .

I know exactly how you feel. I've had to leave a few new groups because of things like that. They'd make really ignorant comments that I always found to be offensive and same as you, I couldn't just tell them exactly how things really are. I always had to watch what I said, because they just didn't get it. They were the epitome of clueless and had major superiority complexes. I always felt that in a way, they looked down on me because of my past. Maybe that's just paranoid, but a lot of their comments just hit too close to home.

 

[OxycoDrone]

I've gone through detox and out of withdrawal many times, over 20, and still have awful trouble with relapse. It happens to everyone, especially since triggers are everywhere.

I find I have to stay away from a lot of good friends, which breaks my heart, but hopefully MMT will help with this .. Here's hoping anyway.

 

[PeacePipeChief]

Yeah I'm already sick of watching what I say , the other night I got drunk and just ripped into the guy that gives me the most shit , the 'hardest' of my new circle . I just had to let him know how uneducated and ignorant he was .

I can't deal with people who think they're heaps superior , I'm too honest because of my Aspergers lol , got my jaw fractured by the Bikie I lived with cause I got over his power trip .

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

I've gone through detox and out of withdrawal many times, over 20, and still have awful trouble with relapse. It happens to everyone, especially since triggers are everywhere.

I find I have to stay away from a lot of good friends, which breaks my heart, but hopefully MMT will help with this .. Here's hoping anyway.

I'm sure that you've heard this before in detox, and you'll hear it a lot in recovery "People, Places, Things". Basically, avoid the people, places and things that trigger you to use. It's a simple enough principle, but I live my life by this principle and believe me, it makes a huge difference.

You will have to stay away from a lot of good friends, that's the worst part of recovery. Recovery is often a lonely thing, IME, even with groups like AA and NA. MMT will definitely help you out because it'll give you that backbone to help stop cravings that can cause you to use. The thing is, there's a huge social component to using, so ideally, if your friends respect the fact that you're on MMT and don't try to force drugs on you and respect your choice to get sober, things should be fine. Things will be even better if not only do they respect and support your choice to go on MMT, but they look out for you as well (i.e. helping you prevent relapses/avoiding risky behavior). Things will get better on MMT. There's a major research report by Judson on how MMT improves the quality of life of methadone patients dramatically. I'll post up the link when I find the article, but it is a long term study that basically shows that MMT patients experience significant social, financial and professional gains while on methadone.

I wish you the best of luck!.

 

[Effuzion]

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I didn't clarify, but I have been smoking weed the last year, year and a half. Nothing else (other than the several times I drank in the last 3 weeks) for over 3 years. I started drinking recently. But the issue is resolved! I wasn't really upset tonight.... I was more in deep thought about what I wanted to do. Either go back to the recovery community, or remain with the 'normies.' I was talking with a friend here who is a normie and I felt a lot better. Even had a beer with her later.

What did you tell people in recovery you were doing when you smoked weed all that time?

Anyway, this is textbook progression of addiction. Same thing happened to my brother -- he went back home, started hanging out with "normies", started drinking and smoking weed again, told everyone (including me and our parents) exactly what he was doing, thinking that would help him. But before you know it he was back into heroin and hiding things again.