Any drugs that increase REM fraction of sleep?

[Azron]

I wonder what they use in Inception...

 

[P A]

REM-sleep will be more or less suppressed by those drugs, for a limited time.

Actually, it will be entirely suppressed for the full duration of chronic ingestion, followed by a significant rebound upon discontinuation.

Millions of people use stimulants to suppress sleep altogether. If sleep was suppressed completely and indefinitely it would end in death.

Terrible analogy. Deep sleep=significantly more [biologically] important than REM. Total deprivation of unconscious rest is a different situation entirely.

The fact that not every stimulant user is dead proves that complete REM-suppression may be as bad as deadly in the long run.

I think you might want to look this one over again, as it doesn't at all follow from what I take to be the premise. And doesn't make any sense. At all.

MAOIs and high dose SRIs [for all functional intents and purposes] completely suppress REM for the duration of treatment. Aside from some mild memory issues and brain fog, there hasn't been a single clinical demonstration (to my knowledge) of any reaction as dramatic or devastating as death [or any substantial changes at all, for that matter] in otherwise healthy individuals. The psychiatric use of these compounds in currently-employed dosages has been occurring for 45+ and ~30 years, respectively. To reiterate - REM is not biologically "necessary," at least not for chronic users of anticholinergics and antidepressants.

Don't have time to dig around for studies, but here's an abstract for reference:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/w7068p5747xxx575/

REM sleep suppression induced by selective monoamine oxidase inhibitors

Abstract

The effects of 4 weeks of treatment with the selective monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibiting antidepressants clorgyline and pargyline on the sleep of affectively disordered patients were studied. Both inhibitors resulted in near total suppression of REM sleep, a decrease in total sleep time, and an increase in the percent of stage 2 sleep. Clorgyline also increased awake time and decreased total recording period and sleep latency. In general, changes were greater for clorgyline than for pargyline and were about 50% slower to return to baseline after clorgyline compared to pargyline discontinuation. The results were consistent with the hypothesis that selective inhibition of the MAO type A, as produced by clorgyline, is sufficient to induce marked sleep changes. MAO inhibitor-induced receptor changes are proposed to account for the time course of the REM suppression and the REM rebound observed upon withdrawal.

 

[golden1]

aniracetam seems to..
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=aniracetam+rem

I have very very long vivid dreams while on aniracetam.

 

[PVMD]

Actually, it will be entirely suppressed for the full duration of chronic ingestion, followed by a significant rebound upon discontinuation.



Terrible analogy. Deep sleep=significantly more [biologically] important than REM. Total deprivation of unconscious rest is a different situation entirely.



I think you might want to look this one over again, as it doesn't at all follow from what I take to be the premise. And doesn't make any sense. At all.

MAOIs and high dose SRIs [for all functional intents and purposes] completely suppress REM for the duration of treatment. Aside from some mild memory issues and brain fog, there hasn't been a single clinical demonstration (to my knowledge) of any reaction as dramatic or devastating as death [or any substantial changes at all, for that matter] in otherwise healthy individuals. The psychiatric use of these compounds in currently-employed dosages has been occurring for 45+ and ~30 years, respectively. To reiterate - REM is not biologically "necessary," at least not for chronic users of anticholinergics and antidepressants.

Don't have time to dig around for studies, but here's an abstract for reference:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/w7068p5747xxx575/

You say entirely, I say 'more or less'. The article you quoted says near total...

"Necessity" was a strong word, I'll give you that much.

My point is that complete REM suppression hasn't, to my knowledge, been done - as opposed to complete sleep deprivation.

I can see how it may have been misunderstood, after all; you're not perfect.

I'll just choose my words more carefully while you work on your "crankitude".

 

[me2b]

Seroquel is a REM sleep suppressent.

Seroquel. I have crazy, vivid dreams that I always remember and wake up refreshed the next morning.

Seroquel actually suppresses REM sleep.

 

[newbie22]

I cannot believe no one in this thread has mentioned opiates. Or maybe I just missed it. Opiates not only increase vivid dreams, but also make it easy to remember them. I've never had as intense lucid dreaming on any other drug (including melatonin) as I have on opiates.

 

[PVMD]

Why do people keep equating REM with lucid dreaming, and dreams they remember?

 

[newbie22]

"Vividly recalled dreams mostly occur during REM sleep."

That's probably why. Most vivid dreams happen during REM, and opiates produce very vivid dreams. But I don't know enough about it to argue, so I'm just gonna leave it at that. All I can say is if you want really cool dreams, REM or not, opiates help.

 

[PVMD]

I don't know enough to argue about opiates.

And I don't want to argue about opiates and their ability to induce really cool dreams.

I'll save that for the 'Any drugs that increase the 'really cool dream'-fraction of sleep?'-thread.

 

[23536]

I'll save that for the 'Any drugs that increase the 'really cool dream'-fraction of sleep?'-thread.

that thread actually exists in ADD! It's like 150 posts long, and mostly roll-call

around the time Inception was released, a bunch of these dream threads spawned

 

[BARBARELLA]

Afaik as i know sleep occurs in 90 minute cycles, with REM being the last phase (and the one most associated with vivid, lucid dreaming although dreaming occurs in all stages of sleep). The amount of REM sleep that occurs in each cycle increases the longer you sleep, makes sense whenever you think how much you wake up in the middle of the a dream after being well rested (6+ hours of sleep imo, everyone differs). Z drugs (zimovane etc) increase the quickness of sleep onset and the duration of phase 1 and 2 sleep but actually cut down on the length of phase 4 and REM sleep, they've been shown to improve sleep quality in subjects (though what that actually means is something that is definitely welcome to debate).
I think somebody mentioned agomelatine previously and afaik that's being successfully prescribed for mixed/general anxiety disorder where lack of sleep is an issue, has shown some very promising results so far but that could be more to do with its "natural" appeal rather than its efficacy. Definitely a interesting and promising direction though and its positive effect on sleep can't be denied (and will almost certainly be something servier seek to exploit).
Sorry for rambling, if the OP is looking to increase to increase REM sleep he's probably best off looking to one of the melatonin analogues. However, think theirs a probability he's looking to increase the likelihood of lucid dreaming which is probably best done with anticholinergics, wouldn't be something i'd recommend taking personally because they can have a number of effects when their taken at recreational doses (sleep paralysis apparently being one).