Misc Any drugs I should avoid? Bipolar 1 -- SSRIs causing Psychosis.

[JarBag]

Hello.
I hope this is the right thread, I also searched, couldn't find anything.
I hope the title is okay, still getting a feel for bluelight.

*Feel free to skip to the next asterisk

Alright, last summer my psychiatrist diagnosed me with depression.
I was put on Escitalopram, but it gave me OCD out of my mind, I couldn't even go outside because
trees and leaves and stuff were uneven. I started to get paranoia and mild hallucinations.
By this point I was thinking I had schizophrenia, life was so false and foreign.
Then she prescribed me Fluvoxamine.. I was on it for 3 days.
Day 1: I was at a show, my bro's band was playing. I was getting so scared and paranoid,
I went to my car and was just so sketched out in fear, my friends thought I was acting weird as fuck,
but didn't say anything. By this point, I self-diagnosed myself with Paranoid Schizophrenia..
And had tons and tons of other symptoms.
Later that night, I remember trying to sleep, but I couldn't close my eyes because I was so so scared.
I don't know, I felt like a child going to my parent's room to just be with people in the middle of the night.
Day 2: I had been having panic attacks daily for two weeks. My OCD was now at its worst it's ever been.
Went on a painting spree, I look back at my writings and paintings of that day.. They are 100% different
from my normal style\writings.
I couldn't go to my room, because it was messy, I couldn't handle mess, I couldn't handle anything.
I organised EVERYTHING in the kitchen, trying to achieve perfect symmetry. Later that night, I just layed down on the carpet, had a panic attack, my Mom gave me some of her klonopin so I could sleep and calm down.
Day 3: at night, in my house, I was talking to my Brother and Mom pacing everywhere.
I was trying to explain how I felt, I told them, I am so worried because I have no worries!
I was the most paranoid I had ever been. I didn't feel pain, I was sort of sketching my brother out.
They thought I was just anxious, the world was the worst it's ever been.
I kept slapping my face, in hope to feel pain. I felt nothing.
I began explain to my Mom how worried I was, she then went in for a hug...
At that moment I had a psychotic break, and screamed at her to get away from me.
I ran to the corner of the room, told everyone to stop moving, I was screaming so loud.
I went to my room, locked my door, slammed the wall, kicked shit, was crying, etc.
I felt every emotion I have ever felt, and nothing.
I eventually was talked into going to the hospital, they told me they would call the ambulance
if I didn't go with them. I was on my deck, they came a bit closer to me, I was going to jump to get away,
but they walked back so I wouldn't.. I just wanted to be alone, with my... cat.
I was talking to myself about how I feel normal but I know I'm not.
Every time they tried to negotiate in anyway, I felt like they were "against me."
Took a trip to the hospital, I was writing about this guy who was after me in my mind etc.
Let's just say it was a tough year.
What sketched me out, is that even though I wasn't that psychotic for the next two months,
the hallucinations and delusions I had haunted me for so long.
During the 6 month period of her diagnosing me, I wasn't using drugs recreationally,
I had no desire, and wanted a proper diagnoses.
I am very lucky that within two months she narrowed it down to schizoaffective and bipolar.
But I'm mostly stable now. Lamictal twice a day, all the other anti-psychotics I tried gave me bad
side effects and I was hospitalized so many times.



The story was just me explaining the severity SSRIs had on me.

*tl;dr: SSRIs make me extremely psychotic.

So here's my question:

Are there any recreational drugs I should avoid that might send me into full blown psychosis?
I have done DXM many times, dropped acid, rolled pure mdma, opiates, weed, spice (fml,) benadryl (fml again,)
some RCs, benzodiazepines (of course,) DMAA, (lololo) and I can't think of anymore atm.
I generally get mixed episodes, not pure depression\mania, though they do happen separately.

I have never done amphetamines. I try to avoid drugs that primarily affect dopamine.
But SSRIs don't affect dopamine? And yet it gave me psychosis.
It just doesn't make sense to me that only SSRIs have made me psychotic and not other drugs?
Even drugs that reuptake serotonin?

I also have HPPD.


Ever since I did DXM my first time, I stopped abusing drugs, only using.
Acid opened my eyes to so much happiness.
MDMA just reminds me how euphoric things actually can be.
I don't think any of those drugs have caused mania.




I hope I wasn't a rule breaker by anything I wrote

Peace.

 

[Tommyboy]

Well if you were taking SSRIs when you took DXM that could have caused Serotonin Syndrome. DXM can cause psychotic effects on its own, but SSRIs can cause it along with other side effects.

Definitely stay away from amphetamines. Hell, stay away from everything if you are not mentally sound.

 

[faceplant]

JarBag

Reading that I was almost in tears. Your situation sounds a lot more severe than mine, but I am bipolar II and suffer social anxiety to. So Many of the things you just said. I Have felt exactly the same way before, and honestly believe no one else could comprehend the mash of emotions torturing me. I have only been to the point of psychosis once, and again it is so comforting that I am not alone here. I to have felt every emotion at once and at the same time felt nothing. I am really sorry you had to go through that.

I to have been diagnosed as depressed with anxiety issues. I have been prescribed ssris that almost tipped me over the edge to insanity. I have tried every ssri in teh book, and eahc and every one made me totlaly unable to sleep and made me jsut so tense, and full of energy (in a very very very abd way) that I just wanted to destory things and scream. Im not insane, but that was a glimpse of insanity. I also had terrible ocd symptoms, I couldnt STAND square objects not being 90 degrees to eachother (funnily enough im normally extremely messy and untidy), I would look at 2 thogns, totlaly unrelated things. And have this anxiety shoot through me that jsut amde me thing something wasnt right about those to things, Id have to leave to make the feeling go away. I was totaly out of control of myself.

Before being formally diagnosed I was also convinced i was shcizophrenic, hell i know i was more than depressed. Trouble is my depression was just like normal depression. My mania however manifestes itself in rage.

Sorry to blabber on about that, I just needed you to know that someone else knwos how you feel when you feel like that, Im hoping knowing that helps you as much as it helps me. On to your question, and more similarities.

Ill start with the drugs that have helped me:

* Dissociatives (ketamine/mxe/DXM) My experiences with these substances seem to be far more trippy than most, I have learnt so much about myself thorugh these drugs. But my use of these drugs has not been "fun" it has been a harsh and sometimes brutal learning experience.

* MDMA, I have not yet tried MDMA, but i am due to next week for the first time, so well see how that goes!

*Opiates. Opiates have perhaps been the most helpfull drug to me, in my periods of depression. Opiates have pulled me up and showed me that actually everuything isnt so bad, they have lifted the fog from my vision, And made lifes little happies more clear to me. And that stays with my quite some time after I use them. Used resposibly they are very helpfull.

* Benzodiapines. My love afair with benzos was short and sweet, whilst it lasted they where the best thing in the world, but It was my lack of self control that caused a total train wreck, not the fault of the drug.

Now the things that havent.

*cannibanoids (spice/haze)

Oh man. Its been about 6 months since my experience with cannibanoids and i am not entirely over it. Specifically it was a blend of damania, AM2201 and JWH 18. I am not sure to this day how much of each i smoked, but according to a friend (with no mental health issues) who has used the same stuff, i didnt smoke much at all. I can never fully portray what happened with that drug becasue what i saw/felt/experienced was far beyond human comphrehension. It started like this, I smoekd it, felt a bit stoned and though " great, this stuffs pretty good" Then slowly i got a bit more uneasy, and it got worse, and worse, and worse, and worse. before the whole world started to spin into a kaliedescope of yellow blue and red swirls. I lied down closed my eyes and expected the unexpected. Slowly it got so bad it was like a K hole. I lost contact with the wrld adn forgot there was a world. Again i cant descirbe how i felt in there. But it was, by far the most tormenting, terriying experience of my entire life ever. I was truly psychotic, beyond all recognition. I woke up, and i was terrifeid of everything. Just to clarify this wasnt a trip by any means, this was my own brain doing this to me. I ended up running aroudn screaming, tyrign to attack things, crying, cluthcing things. Id lost it. And by the next day I was still not quite there. I have no where near accurately portrayed just what that was like, ive tried a few tiems and failed every time. just stay the hell away from cannibanoids if you have bipolar.


Watch out because certain vendors put cannibanoids in their kratom extracts. Which caused me to unknowingly take cannibanoids and freak the FUCK OUT. I emailed the vendor and they appologized and sent me some different extract which was fine. To their credit this particular vendor was extremely helpfull at sorting this out.

* SSRIs

As mentioned above they made me permenantely manic, OCD and all around nuts. Made the anxiety much worse and stopped me sleeping. They are evil little things.

*Benadryl

Its funny you should mention benadryl. Im too tired to type the whole story. But TL;DR. I OD'd on benzos, thought everything was a great idea and took about 50 benadryl tablets. It goes without saying that was the last time i ever touched benzos or diphenhydramine. I woke up in hosptial hallucianting and deulsional, then had several seaizures because I discontinued a benzo habit cold turkey.



Drugs seem to affect people with bipolar very oddly, they so far are the things ive found to affect me positively and negitively. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope that somewhere between our experiences some usefull information has accumilated. Ive tried previously to search on the subject of drugs and bipolar with no sucess.

One last thing, everyone says dont touch drugs with an unstable mind. And they are right, its a bad idea. But if I didnt have that escape, christ knows how Id end up. Stay safe, good luck . If you ever want to talk about anything feel free to PM me .

 

[JarBag]

Well if you were taking SSRIs when you took DXM that could have caused Serotonin Syndrome. DXM can cause psychotic effects on its own, but SSRIs can cause it along with other side effects.

Definitely stay away from amphetamines. Hell, stay away from everything if you are not mentally sound.

I took DXM about 4 months after being off SSRIs.

I am going to continue to safely use.

I appreciate your concern though.



Honestly, reading what you wrote seems hard to believe, because it just hits home so much to me.
I'm really sorry you had to go through that too, and it's sad to think other people have suffered like me\you
but I happy I am not alone, like I feel so much these days as far as being expressive of my internal feelings.
I wondered so much about people who have been through this.
but simply searching google didn't really make me feel reassured.
Something that helped me is knowing that the worst mental illness anyone can have, is the one they have.



I'm so sorry to hear you went through SSRI hell too


It's not blabbering at all, it's really meaningful and enlightening.

Ill start with the drugs that have helped me:


You should read my 600mg DXM thread! It's a long ass report though.
You may be able to relate.

And that's exactly how I feel with opiates too!

Yeah, the days of benzo abuse are behind me.

Now the things that havent.

And woow, I have had an insanely similar experience to your spice hell:
I once had an amazing time before I had a bad time, it was while I was untreated bipolar,
so it gave me racing thoughts, I had hundreds and hundreds of mental images going through my mind,
very emotional experience, they were all childhood memories\thoughts\dreams, and I can't describe it
other than I can say, I met up with nostalgia and we chatted for hours.

But the rest of spice was hell, I think I got tachychardia from it.

Here is a quote from a post in a thread I made about spice and benadryl:

"The two bad trips that stand out the most are when I tripped diphehydramine, it won't let you sleep.
It caused me to become suicidal, I would not follow through with it.. I managed to remember I was tripping.
The second was a spice trip (synthetic cannabis) I have had a few bad spice trips before, but the last one made me quit.
I became delusional, hallucinated, was paranoid, I was in pain, physical and mental pain, it was so awful. It lasted four hours, all from the spice.
I smoked a pipe about 6 hours later after the spice trip; (tobacco) and I can no longer smoke the heather tobacco I smoked at that time.
I am definitely going to avoid deliriants and synthetic cannabis; I suggest you do too, unless that's just how you roll.
Seriously though, a cheap diphenhydramine trip is not worth it to me, or fake cannabis, regardless of how long it lasts."

I think SSRIs and bipolar should be avoided, rather than using SSRIs and other drugs to counter
the mania caused by SSRIs. I'm not doctor, but it's just so risky.

Wow... About the benadryl too. At first, I started abusing opiates, a lot, and then I smoked weed
for my first time ever with a friend, it was so great because I had been in so much pain for years.
And then, I lost my weed hookup and didn't see my friend(s) much because I just wanted to disappear.
So I started abusing benadryl, I would take doses daily, lots.. Not nearly as many as you did that one time,
sorry to hear you had that hell : (
I think about how shitty benadryl was, and it makes me depressed to think, I chose the world
of benadryl emptiness and blankness, over sober emptiness. I did anything to feel different.

What really made my Mom decide to take me to a psychologist was (who later recommended I see a
psychiatrist for "mild depression." To be fair, I lied a shit load to her about how bad I felt.)
I popped two vicodin and was on my way back from somewhere, (driving and on high doses of
vicodin is selfish anyway, but when you're suicidal,
that isn't your number 1. priority as I'm sure you know too.)
I was driving 63mph on a 45mph, I thought it was 55, but I was too gone in opiate world to even
pay attention. Fell into a speed trap, got pulled over.. I was freaking the fuck out, since I was on drugs
and sped. He only asked for my license, gave me a ticket, didn't know I was on vicodin.. I had class later
that day.. But I headed home, screaming, kicking, pissed off, suicidal, everything..
I called my Mom to tell her, in tears. (I generally don't cry unless I'm happy, mixed episode, or just unstable.)
Sometimes my body would just 'shut down' I guess you could say, where I would dissociate myself
from everything, wouldn't speak, wouldn't do anything.
I remember just drooling and numb, not even crying anymore..
My Dad was like "it's just a ticket." That really upset me, eventually something set me off
later that day, and I went outside, screaming emotional, suicidal.
I live in the woods, so I walked a bit, crossed this fence in a state of I do not know..
I was so desperate to die, I was looking for something to make a noose with..
I ended up just grabbing this medium size stick and just hit myself over and over and stabbed myself with it
until I just fell to the ground, mixed emotions, screaming to the sky, asking why me, etc.
The will to live somehow prevailed, and I calmed down, eventually going back.
I am glad I went to that psychologist because she recommended me to a psychiatrist, he was all booked
or whatever it's called, so they recommended to the doctor I have now, who is like the coolest person
I have ever met. I quickly left that psychologist when she started to tell me lots of my symptoms
may be spiritual\demonic, from the corner of the eye hallucinations (first few weeks of lexapro.)
That was absolutely not what I wanted to hear, at all. I felt so betrayed, and then I felt
even more scared than ever, since I was becoming delusional, thinking evil spirits were after me.




"Drugs seem to affect people with bipolar very oddly, they so far are the things ive found to affect me positively and negitively. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope that somewhere between our experiences some usefull information has accumilated. Ive tried previously to search on the subject of drugs and bipolar with no sucess."

I completely agree with what you said.

"One last thing, everyone says dont touch drugs with an unstable mind. And they are right, its a bad idea. But if I didnt have that escape, christ knows how Id end up."
They are right, but believe I am still here because of DXM. so how can I be against something that
showed me new light?

I wish you the best too.

P.S.

Oh, and I should be rolling this weekend. You will have an awesome time when you do!
I dosed at 100mg, then after an hour, re-dosed another 125mgs.
It may have been a bit high.
If I were you, I'd do something similar, take a first dose, and then an hour later, decide.
I'd avoid pills if I were you though.


P.P.S.

To all:
Definitely still open to suggestions of drugs to avoid.
Or ones that can be as damaging as SSRIs were to me.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

amphetamines
cocaine
stimulants in general

 

[lptrax]

just do opiates bro. basically harmless on the mind/body if used properly and nothing is better for pain/depression

 

[JarBag]

Thanks Neighbor, just reassures my thoughts on amphetamines and coke.
I am curious to try amphetamine, but it doesn't really seem worth it, maybe a small dose...
and as far as MDMA goes, just a monthly or longer thing, and since it's not really purely focused on dopamine, doesn't worry me too much.. But I guess SSRIs aren't either.
MDMA never caused mania\depression after the fact, just a nice afterglow, no bad comedown at all.

Iptrax, Although I agree with what you're saying about opiates, I try to not use them too often because of the possible addiction factor to them.


And I'm definitely still open to more opinions and thoughts on avoiding drugs.

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

OK, I'm diagnosed as having Bipolar II, but I question that diagnosis as I usually get manic or hypomanic when I get unstable (which thanks to my med cocktail, is very, very rare). Plus when I was first diagnosed it was due to a massive manic episode that ended in psychosis with a diagnosis of Bipolar I.

Anyways, you want to avoid stimulants like the plague. I always found that they would get racing thoughts going or would set of other triggers for mania or hypomania (if you've lived with bipolar for a while, you know what your "triggers" and warning signs are). Also, avoid psychedelics for obvious reasons. Such strong alterations of perception can really put you at risk for full-blown mania and psychosis. Also, IME, MDMA crystals "Molly" screw with your mood horribly if you're bipolar. Whenever I used to do molly, I'd basically be either hypomanic/manic or have a mixed episode for about a week.

Generally with Bipolar, especially Bipolar I, you may have a liking of downer drugs. I know I did because I always needed something to take the edge off. But the fact of the matter is, I think something like 50% of bipolars end up with major substance abuse issues, so any drug is even more risky for a bipolar than for an average person. I'm clean now and I can tell you this: the only way you can win against Bipolar Disorder, regardless of type is to stay clean and sober. You simply won't win. I learned this the hard way. . If you need any advice or just want to chat, PM me, and hopefully I can show you some tricks for living with Bipolar.

 

[Druidus]

Pretty much anything affecting dopamine and serotonin receptors should be avoided, or only tried with extreme precaution and low doses. Stimulants are tough, including the empathogens like MDMA. Opiates and benzos shouldn't directly affect you negatively unless you allow a dependence to form and experience withdrawal. Cannabis really depends on you. I would be lying if I said that psychedelics like LSD and psilocin were not very risky, but I still hold that they benefit me, and whatever my issues actually are (diagnosed with soc./gen. anxiety, and bipolar-NOS). Just not all the time, obviously. Still, increase dosage slowly, and be safe. They always improved my emotional health immensely for 1.5 months, with lesser benefits still apparent for another 1.5. But that's me.

As has been said, you're only fully safe through abstinence. But I'd be a hypocrite to say I hold to that, despite my diagnoses.

 

[Tommyboy]

Definitely stay away from alcohol. If you are in a manic state when you start drinking then it can lead to doing some very wreckless stuff. If you are in a depressed state when you start drinking then you will just get more depressed.

just do opiates bro. basically harmless on the mind/body if used properly and nothing is better for pain/depression

Only occasional use though. If you become dependent then you act bipolar even if you aren't. When you are sick you are just depressed, lethargic, and agitated, and when you are high you are talkative, friendly, active, etc... My parents actually thought I was bipolar when I was strung out, because my actions were night and day when going from withdrawals to being high.

 

[Druidus]

Excellent point about opiates.

 

[tricomb]

Definitely stay away from alcohol. If you are in a manic state when you start drinking then it can lead to doing some very wreckless stuff. If you are in a depressed state when you start drinking then you will just get more depressed.



Only occasional use though. If you become dependent then you act bipolar even if you aren't. When you are sick you are just depressed, lethargic, and agitated, and when you are high you are talkative, friendly, active, etc... My parents actually thought I was bipolar when I was strung out, because my actions were night and day when going from withdrawals to being high.

^Same here, especially to that last part.

AVOID NONDRUGS: Credit Cards, gambling of any kind, ebay/amazon, the racetrack, Costco/Walmart etc.

AVOID DRUGS: amphetamines (pharmaceutical and their illicit counterparts) and anything like it (like MDMA & the countless RCs), cocaine, anti-depressants, they all trigger mania and sometimes psychosis.

If I am not extremely careful, well, last time I did a lot of cocaine I spent over a thousand dollars on a satellite phone. It's cool and all, I wanted one for a long time, but you have to be super careful about mania, I would avoid gambling, online shopping, the bank, etc. You do not want to end up buying a house, or taking out a huge loan or second mortgage or whatever, this is a very real and very serious risk of mania.

 

[JarBag]

@Rorer, once your inbox opens up a bit I'll pop you a private message.

I rarely, rarely, drink alcohol, I try to keep it to special occasions.

I love opiates and would pop painkillers everyday if I could, well I could, I have lots, but I choose not to due to the fact that I love them so much.

I generally try to avoid phsyically addicting substances.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to keep my hands off MDMA.. I only had a nice afterglow, no depression or mania after.
I would never do it more than once a month.
I actually have only done it once, and it showed me so much joy that you truly can feel, and it showed me that even when I feel bad and depressed, that "drugs" aren't
necessarily the answer, it just helps me knowing that joy such as that exists in this world, exists within. and am going to this coming weekend most likely : S

I always bring anti-psychotics and benzos everywhere I go, I feel uncomfortable going places without them.

As far as psychedelics go: I agree so much with what everyone is saying with them.. But to me they have shown me so much in my life, that I feel I would take some temporary instability for the enlightenment it brings to me.
I just can't imagine giving up acid, it's literally the most euphoric and amazing I have ever felt; the mind opening beauty to it far surpassed the euphoria even of the really pure crystal MDMA I had.
Although.. Lucky for me(?) the HPPD I have (which sucks) comes out insanely strong when baked on marijuana, it's a full blown trip if I smoke enough, so I can get a "psychedelic experience" without having to touch a true psychedelic.
I'm a little bit uneasy about it though, last time I smoked that much I experienced a lot of dissociation from my body, had an insane mental trip, and the visuals were absolutely incredible, very emotional and rollercoaster like of a trip.

As stereotypical as it sounds, I try to use and not abuse.
I'm not gonna lie though, temporary abuse can still sometimes occur, but popping drugs and living by just trying to feel different is all in the past for me. (hopefully for good.)

I don't think I'll ever touch coke\MDPV and other amphetamines along those lines.. no pun intended.
If it's anything like the hypo-mania (which I rarely get, usually mania\mixed, but hypo-mania more so now since I have been properly medicated) I probably shouldn't touch them..if it is only mild hypo-mania and never passes to mania or has a depressive comedown it doesn't bother me much, feels pretty good, so I don't want to pump amphetamines into my body to keep going, because I imagine that would just lead to full blown mania? Aren't there more psychotic breaks from amphetamines as opposed to psychedelics? I usually get mixed episodes though, so I don't really bump into this problem much... (Wanting to take amphetamines that is, more depressive racing thoughts is the last thing I would want.)

The first time I did DXM was during a mixed episode with mixed emotions, I had been abusing drugs a lot before that.
I was in awe of the euphoria, I came out the other end with a fresher perspective.. And after that my abuse of drugs slowly faded.

 

[tricomb]

oh god, MDPV and bipolar would probably be the worst thing you could do, that or 4-MAR.


Which antipsychotics are you taking?

 

[JarBag]

None right now, I (nicely) insisted to my psychiatrist to just let me try purely Lamictal. I'm on 400mg of it. She agreed since I got through a two week episode and was just doing well. She's smart, and conservative but is giving
this a chance. She was also saying how everyone reacts to medicine differently (obviously) and I may be a lucky person and not have to be on the typical "cocktail of drugs." I'll just see how it goes.

The first one I originally took was Risperidone just to get me stabilized, it was temporary, but that's the one I bring around with me in case of problems. Risperidone has quite a lot of side effects and knocks me out too.
During my periods of hallucinations and delusions I was on 2mg twice a day of it I think, I was just like a zombie, a paranoid one. But note, this is still when I was recovering from a very hard hit from SSRIs.

She put me on Seroquel, that was short lived, it sent me to the hospital when I upped my dose. I hated seroquel, it caused me insomnia for 6 months after coming off it. I had 15+ side effects from it, and some of the worst scared
paranoia I've ever had, I couldn't close my eyes in fear : S I really hate that drug, it puts you into a trance, and breaking free from it is tough. If I ever wanted to leave this earth for a week straight I would take seroquel, that's how potent
the sleeping factor of it is. I had to take sleeping pills after to get me on track and even then that barely worked. But Within the past few months my sleep cycle is being restored now that I have a stable job and am able to work and function.

There was another one that I forgot right now.

She wants to put me on abilify next, but we agreed that we will wait for me to have another "episode" because I told her I don't want to be on a drug the rest of my life if I don't need it.
She isn't all for give drug to counter another drug, but she has been happy with my results and stability recently.

I know lamictal is helping, because of many reasons. A main one is that once I was on 300mg but I was having a mixed episode, she upped my dose and it helped a ton.
Lamictal is definitely my favorite mood stabilizing drug, I only get a bit of tiredness from it, and the occasional RLS that is bearable. It has barely any drug interactions too.. Which is another reason I don't want to be on more.
I still feel like 'myself' on lamictal and isn't hasn't zapped every ounce of creativity out of me.

I hate anti-psychotics, they make life so plain, so flat and boring. But in the end, if it's really what I need, I'll give them another chance.

Ever since doing Acid my outlook on life is so much more positive and I'm just more of an optimistic person, last time I used it was 5 months ago I think. It's hard to come by around here.

I'm unfamiliar with 4-MAR, what drugs would you compare it to?

Also, I know this is a little off topic but I used the search and couldn't quite find the results I wanted and I didn't want to make another thread.
When people "lose the magic" on MDMA is it generally from overuse? Will the "magic" return from a long hiatus? And do you know around how much and how often you have to do to "lose the magic?"

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

I know lamictal is helping, because of many reasons. A main one is that once I was on 300mg but I was having a mixed episode, she upped my dose and it helped a ton.
Lamictal is definitely my favorite mood stabilizing drug, I only get a bit of tiredness from it, and the occasional RLS that is bearable. It has barely any drug interactions too.. Which is another reason I don't want to be on more.
I still feel like 'myself' on lamictal and isn't hasn't zapped every ounce of creativity out of me.

I hate anti-psychotics, they make life so plain, so flat and boring. But in the end, if it's really what I need, I'll give them another chance.

"

I'm on both Lamictal and Tegretol as my mood stabilizers. I absolutely hate Tegretol as it interacts with EVERYTHING and I find that I have to take it at the EXACT same time every day, if I'm even an hour off, I start to feel really weird, get derealization and shakiness. Lamictal is a very good medication, especially compared to the nightmare anticonvulsant mood stabilizers like Depakote and Depakene. I've never been on either, nor have I been on Lithium and I definitely wouldn't want to be on any of those. You'll notice that a lot of bipolars are on clonazepam. My shrink told me that as it has a strong anti-convulsant action, it can act as an adjunct mood stabilizer. Hell, it's a first-line drug in the cocktail used to suppress acute mania.

As for antipsychotics, I've tried Risperdal, Seroquel, Abilify, Zeldox/Geodon, Zyprexa Zydis and Invega. Out of the lot, Zyprexa Zydis is actually really helpful for emergencies, as if you're starting to get really manic-y, it brings you back to normal ASAP. For maintenance, I wouldn't recommend it at all because of weight gain. I'm currently on Invega 6 mg and I think that it's an awesome med, as far as antipsychotics go. A LOT of docs say that it's identical to Risperdal as it's just the main active metabolite in a extended release matrix, but having taken both Risperdal and Invega, the differences are very, very noticeable. For one, Invega doesn't have that zombifying effect that Risperdal does, except at doses of 9 mg or greater, IME (I once accidentally double-dosed my Invega one morning....) and I find that it has a very distinct calming effect. It's also once-daily dosing and I find that it doesn't kill your personality or creativity the way the other antipsychotics do when it's taken in doses of 3 to 6 mg. Another thing I noticed about Invega that's really strange is that it completely kills any desire to drink alcohol. It literally causes alcohol to lose its appeal. I don't know why it does this, but a guy I used to hang out with that was bipolar and a severe alcoholic went to detox to get him through withdrawals and then was put on Invega by his shrink and after starting Invega, he never had any urge to drink whatsoever without even going to rehab or a treatment program. Mind you, it didn't stop his love of coke or oxys . The bottom line is that you should give Invega a try.

Wow major tl;dr material here lol.

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

Thanks Neighbor, just reassures my thoughts on amphetamines and coke.
I am curious to try amphetamine, but it doesn't really seem worth it, maybe a small dose...
and as far as MDMA goes, just a monthly or longer thing, and since it's not really purely focused on dopamine, doesn't worry me too much.. But I guess SSRIs aren't either.
MDMA never caused mania\depression after the fact, just a nice afterglow, no bad comedown at all.

Iptrax, Although I agree with what you're saying about opiates, I try to not use them too often because of the possible addiction factor to them.


And I'm definitely still open to more opinions and thoughts on avoiding drugs.

Please, do not take amphetamine. I know a few people who have bipolar and have taken amphetamines. It only made things get out of control.

I'm saying this again. Do not take amphetamines.

 

[JarBag]

The bottom line is that you should give Invega a try.

If my stability starts to go down\up hill too much I'll definitely consider trying more.
What can I say though? I love my dopamine (sometimes..) : )

I guess to me I hesitate a lot since the idea of being bound to a medicine for possibly life if it seems to work..
So when I feel fairly stable like I do now, that thought continues to scare me.


In case anyone missed it and has a possible answer :D

Also, I know this is a little off topic but I used the search and couldn't quite find the results I wanted and I didn't want to make another thread.
When people "lose the magic" on MDMA is it generally from overuse? Will the "magic" return from a long hiatus? And do you know around how much and how often you have to do to "lose the magic?"

You'll notice that a lot of bipolars are on clonazepam. My shrink told me that as it has a strong anti-convulsant action, it can act as an adjunct mood stabilizer. Hell, it's a first-line drug in the cocktail used to suppress acute mania.

Ah, I have been prescribed Lorazepam to take as needed, it's been very nice to have.

 

[tricomb]

I lost the magic with MDMA years ago and I don't think it ever comes back, from what I know.

I would definitely avoid MDMA if you have bipolar.

 

[JarBag]

I lost the magic with MDMA years ago and I don't think it ever comes back, from what I know.

Did you use it a lot?
Does it lose it's magic because it loses euphoria? Or maybe do you just get used to the euphoria?
I just don't really get the whole it not being that great anymore even years after.