anxiety, speed

[Crankinit]

Hey guys, been ages since I posted in TDS, but I've been getting really fucked up anxiety lately and can't figure out how to deal with it.

I've always had anxiety on and off at different levels, it was pretty minor until I started doing a lot of MDMA, got bad at one point but eventually it faded away. Been using meth again for about 9 - 10 months, no big thing just a few points here and there on the weekend when I'm out clubbing or if someone offers, usually don't stay up more than a day or two, but about 2 months ago I took 'way' too much d-amp over the course of 4 days, set off an insane panic attack, heart felt like it was going to burst out of my chest, thought I was dying, etc, the whole 9 yards.

I had persistant symptoms afterwards so I got myself checked out, doctor ran an ECG and some blood tests, said that there were no signs of physical damage so I figure it's all in my head.

But it's kind of fucking with me. I still find myself getting palpitations and shortness of breath at random moments, and there's some corner of my mind that keeps wondering if there's something wrong with me the doctor didn't catch, if I've somehow fucked my cardiovascular system with the drugs.

The worst is when I use meth. I stopped with the d-amp because it seems to set off anxiety so much worse than meth, but even meth I have to struggle to enjoy the high unless I'm insanely drunk. I used to love the feeling, but now I just become an edgy mess, constantly checking my BP and too worried to actually enjoy the high.

I guess the obvious solution would seem to be stop using uppers, but I dunno just can't bring myself to do it, and even when I'm not using speed the background anxiety is still there constantly. Even downers don't seem to get rid of it fully. I did take a break for a while but as soon as I get some booze in me or I'm in town it suddenly seems like an awesome idea.

A mate of mine said I should just take a 'long' break, but I can't really get my head around the idea of taking months/years off meth, especially since there's nothing else good going around atm.

Anyone else been through something similar and have some advice? Is there a way I can retrain myself to stop associating speed with anxiety?

 

[FiatFlux]

yeah it can get to the point where any altered state of consciousness, (except maybe a sedative/hypnotic state) could cause horrific 'panic attacks' and anxiety for me. i was the same as you are, once you go down that route of omg i am not in control i am not in control and your body starts buzzing, in addition to all the dopamine or seratonin flushing through you, the nasty norepinepherine starts and you're fkd.

i was a heavy benzo, opiate and meth (odd combo i kno) user for years, and i even developed complex partial seizures as a result of the drug use (sort of feels like a really REALLY horrible panic attack, but with convulsions)... i went on psych meds and stuff for a couple of years but now i seem to have gotten over it. what helped me was time off the hard shit (i still use occasionally, only meth psychedelics and pot) and basic cognitive behavioural therapy. my advice is to learn as much as you can about what happens to you physically when you do have a panic attack. for example the skin crawls and pins/needles you feel a lot of times is mainly caused by blood rushing away from your capillaries and into your CNS, part of the panic fight/flight response. It is not dangerous and it is usually to do with the tachycardia or hyperventilation (which assists in causing the tachy in the first place) and is not about you having a heart attack, dying, or anything of that sort. Remember your body freaks out and develops a switch that is too easily flipped when you have panic disorder -- most people need to be in a life or death or extremely stressful situation in order to release the endorphins associated with a fight or flight response, but since that isn't the case when u panic, your body goes through the same process as if you were trying to run out of a burning building or careening to your imminent death down an icy slope... then your brain tries to make sense of this cognitively and asks "what is this abnormal response for? there is nothing seriously wrong..." and the only sensible conclusion is that "something is very very physically wrong and i MUST be dying" lol. Once you change your thought patterns the panic attacks will become less and less.

Do you see a therapist? If not I would at least see a GP and get some lorazepam scripted for you IF you think you won't abuse it with alcohol (no1 wants that, trust me, messy messy). 1mg sublingually at the onset of a panic attack will make it last at a maximum of 15-20 minutes.

A sure sign you are using 2 many stims is if you no longer get the euphoria and become irritable/moody instead of at peace and blissful. Diversify your drugs if you aren't going to stop using...

Hope some of that helps, theres a lotta information available on the web as well.

 

[Crankinit]

i was a heavy benzo, opiate and meth (odd combo i kno) user for years, and i even developed complex partial seizures as a result of the drug use (sort of feels like a really REALLY horrible panic attack, but with convulsions)... i went on psych meds and stuff for a couple of years but now i seem to have gotten over it. what helped me was time off the hard shit (i still use occasionally, only meth psychedelics and pot) and basic cognitive behavioural therapy. my advice is to learn as much as you can about what happens to you physically when you do have a panic attack. for example the skin crawls and pins/needles you feel a lot of times is mainly caused by blood rushing away from your capillaries and into your CNS, part of the panic fight/flight response. It is not dangerous and it is usually to do with the tachycardia or hyperventilation (which assists in causing the tachy in the first place) and is not about you having a heart attack, dying, or anything of that sort. Remember your body freaks out and develops a switch that is too easily flipped when you have panic disorder -- most people need to be in a life or death or extremely stressful situation in order to release the endorphins associated with a fight or flight response, but since that isn't the case when u panic, your body goes through the same process as if you were trying to run out of a burning building or careening to your imminent death down an icy slope... then your brain tries to make sense of this cognitively and asks "what is this abnormal response for? there is nothing seriously wrong..." and the only sensible conclusion is that "something is very very physically wrong and i MUST be dying" lol. Once you change your thought patterns the panic attacks will become less and less.

Yeah that's it man, doesn't matter how much you tell yourself 'its just anxiety,' you still can't shake the feeling that something horrible is happening, or is going to happen.

Do you see a therapist? If not I would at least see a GP and get some lorazepam scripted for you IF you think you won't abuse it with alcohol (no1 wants that, trust me, messy messy). 1mg sublingually at the onset of a panic attack will make it last at a maximum of 15-20 minutes.

Hmm that might be worth a shot, other than coming down of stims I'm not a huge benzo fan, so abuse wouldn't be an issue.

A sure sign you are using 2 many stims is if you no longer get the euphoria and become irritable/moody instead of at peace and blissful. Diversify your drugs if you aren't going to stop using...

Would love to, but of the drugs I enjoy, meth is the only one readily available atm.

On that note, perhaps some kind of CBT would help? If I could learn to ignore them eventually the drugs might stop triggering panic attacks.

Cheers for the input man.

 

[AnyCouponWorks]

hey there - u sound just like me. similar scenario is driving me nuts.

ive been prescribed adderall since october 09 - prior to that ive always been a heavy cigarette and weed smoker, no drinking, maybe once a month, and then had an addiction to pain killers for a year. thats my history.

in january i had what i believed at the time was a heart attack one night at a friends house, after taking too much adderall, lots of vodka, and then some weed put me over the edge. i was about to call 911 but then talked myself down and quickly passed out into a deep sleep. since that very episode, i have had many residual symptoms and have never been able to feel the same when i take the adderall.

same as you i went to the doc - got a full physical, EKG (2 - one was normal one wasnt), then an echo - was told im in perfect health save low lung function. the symptoms i have now are slightly elevated blood pressure, palpitations mostly in the morning and at night, random shortness of breath, and extreme tightness in my upperback, chest, neck...

im a girl so first thing i did was go off birth control which id been taking for about 8 years and that improved the blood pressure significantly. stopped smoking cigarettes and that helped the shortness of breath. overall though, the symptoms still come and go at random and all i know is i never had ANY of them prior to the "attack"

what ive been doing is going off my meds for a week, then back on for 3, off for one, etc....seems to help a little to give my body a break and get deep sleep. im sorry that i cant help more but i wanted to let you know that no youre not the only one. i want and need to know as well how to "reverse" this - as i do believe it cant be anything but anxiety if ive been given all tests i can and theyre normal. i too constantly think "what if the doc missed something" which then leads to more anxiety, etc..... its a cycle.

i have come to the conclusion that something in my mind was altered that day, and i dont know if i can go back.

it sucks.....i hope others can shed some light.....

 

[woamotive]

I relate. I have GAD and have regular panic attacks. I've had a clonazepam (occasionally switched to lorazepam and alprazolam with clonazepam being most common and current script) prescribed for anxiety pretty steadily for the last few years. Panic attacks were infrequent UNTIL...I was prescribed adderall. I went from having one panic attack a month to having at least a couple a week. Still, I can't find the strength to stop taking my adderall. With it sitting right in front of me how can I NOT take it!? I use it in half the month, then struggle for the last couple weeks (if I don't find it 'elsewhere').

You're going to have to take it easy on the stims. You 'could' get that benzo script but I'm telling you the panic attacks will still occur. I take the stims throughout the day and a benzo to crash at night. It works, but it's not nice on your body. Cut back on the stims IF you can, and get an appt with a therapist and talk about benzos.

 

[burntserkits]

I feel your pain as well. I used to use a lot of meth and once the "magic" wears off it turns to misery. It is such a powerful drug and affects you in so many ways and throws off so many brain chemicals. It is affecting you even when you aren't using it for days. If underlying problems exist, meth will surely exacerbate them. Hope you find the solution you seek. Best of luck my friend!

 

[Crankinit]

hey there - u sound just like me. similar scenario is driving me nuts.

ive been prescribed adderall since october 09 - prior to that ive always been a heavy cigarette and weed smoker, no drinking, maybe once a month, and then had an addiction to pain killers for a year. thats my history.

in january i had what i believed at the time was a heart attack one night at a friends house, after taking too much adderall, lots of vodka, and then some weed put me over the edge. i was about to call 911 but then talked myself down and quickly passed out into a deep sleep. since that very episode, i have had many residual symptoms and have never been able to feel the same when i take the adderall.

same as you i went to the doc - got a full physical, EKG (2 - one was normal one wasnt), then an echo - was told im in perfect health save low lung function. the symptoms i have now are slightly elevated blood pressure, palpitations mostly in the morning and at night, random shortness of breath, and extreme tightness in my upperback, chest, neck...

im a girl so first thing i did was go off birth control which id been taking for about 8 years and that improved the blood pressure significantly. stopped smoking cigarettes and that helped the shortness of breath. overall though, the symptoms still come and go at random and all i know is i never had ANY of them prior to the "attack"

what ive been doing is going off my meds for a week, then back on for 3, off for one, etc....seems to help a little to give my body a break and get deep sleep. im sorry that i cant help more but i wanted to let you know that no youre not the only one. i want and need to know as well how to "reverse" this - as i do believe it cant be anything but anxiety if ive been given all tests i can and theyre normal. i too constantly think "what if the doc missed something" which then leads to more anxiety, etc..... its a cycle.

i have come to the conclusion that something in my mind was altered that day, and i dont know if i can go back.

it sucks.....i hope others can shed some light.....

Thanks it sounds like you're going through something similar. It really sucks seeing people around me getting on it and having an awesome time, but knowing that whenever I do the same I'll just end up all anxious and panicky. Used to enjoy it so much too.

That whole cycle of thinking something is wrong, so you panic more, etc. seems really common. I've spent hours pouring over internet pages on various forms of heart damage, BP problems etc. ever since it first started, even though my doctor reassures me I'm fine physically. I can't stop myself thinking that long term damage wouldn't show up on an ECG if there were no acute symptoms, etc etc. doing my own head in.

You're going to have to take it easy on the stims. You 'could' get that benzo script but I'm telling you the panic attacks will still occur. I take the stims throughout the day and a benzo to crash at night. It works, but it's not nice on your body. Cut back on the stims IF you can, and get an appt with a therapist and talk about benzos.

I've been taking nitrazepam since I last had a smoke yesterday arvo and it helps, but some of the physical symptoms of anxiety (palpitations etc) still remain, which of course make me panic mentally. I'm not sure if a benzo script is a path I want to go down, and I hate the idea of going on meds for a psychological issue, especially one related to my drug use.

thanks for the input guys, it's a pretty rough thing to wrap my head around.

 

[psycosynthesis]

Meth will magnify any anxiety you have and will certainly not help the underlying psychological causes of it.

I don't think that you can "stop associating speed with anxiety" at all. If you have anxiety any stimulant use is not a wise move.

From someone who has suffered amphetamine-induced psychoses a number of times (most probably due to underlying anxiety and psychological issues), I would advise you to lay of the stims for a long while, cut back on the ganja if you smoke it regularly, and consider seeing a psychologist or counselor who can help you develop cognitive techniques to deal with your anxiety. Medicare will pay for 10 sessions (in Victoria at least. I assume it is the same for the rest of Aus)
Benzos can be helpful but they should only be used short term, due to their addictive nature and the fact that they only stop the physical symptoms of anxiety and don't actually do anything to address the underlying cause, which from your post seems to be the issue you have to address.

 

[Crankinit]

I don't think that you can "stop associating speed with anxiety" at all. If you have anxiety any stimulant use is not a wise move.

I think it could be argued that meth use is 'never' a wise move, perhaps barring certain narcolepsy cases, but we still do it

I get that stimulants are always going to increase anxiety, but my issue is that since the incident with the d-amp a few months back, introducing even a small dose of amphetamines into my system results in a fairly severe level of anxiety that I hadn't experienced before outside of isolated panic attacks with fairly identifiable causes.

It feels like back when you were 15 or whatever, and you got absolutely wasted on a certain alcoholic beverage for the first time, and forever after whenever you smell (let alone drink) that drink, you feel nauseous, because your body associates it with nausea. Every time I hit the pipe, it's the usual electric warm rush, but within a few seconds it's overwhelmed by a huge OHSHITYOUREGONNADIEHEARTISPOUNDINGSHORTOFBREATHCHECKYOURPULSESITDOWNOHSHIT feeling.

Of course this is compounded by actual fear over potential damage done to my body, even though I know that the chances of it being missed by a doctor is slim, there's always a little voice in the back of my head wondering about the worst case scenario, wondering if somewhere along the way I loosened a metaphorical screw somewhere in my heart and it's just waiting to wriggle loose. It sounds ridiculous out loud (or on the screen, as the case may be), but when you're sitting there with your heart slamming away, it's a scary thought.

I get what you're saying about seeing a counsellor or such and looking at underlying causes, and I'm sure those underlying causes are many and varied, but RL situations atm make the prospect of doing something like that seem a little over my head atm. It's one thing to say 'yeah go see a psychologist,' but actually finding a good one and working that into my life just doesn't seem feasable right now.

Funnily enough, I managed to convince myself that it was a good idea to smoke some more tonight. Late night, early morning, long day (it made perfect sense, of course), the first whiff made my heart feel like it was going to explode out of my chest, now I've settled into an uneasy tweaked out feeling.

This fucking blows, I just want to be able to enjoy the drug again.

 

[pygmycosmonaut]

i had a similar experience. in high school, speed (adderrall, dex) was the first drug i used besides my weed. i used to absolutely love it. pure energy and euphoria, no considerable anxiety or depression. after a couple years, though, the negatives began to FAR outweigh the positives. I swore it off almost entirely for my early 20's. i tried dex again last winter a few times, and found i had uncontrollable anxiety off of as little as 20 mgs! no mas

 

[psycosynthesis]

If you're going to insist on using, which IMO (and with my love) is a stupid move, then use a benzo on top to deal with the anxiety. Sorry to be so blunt. I've got too soft of a spot for the shite, and understand completely the motivation/and or compulsion to use. However, you are flirting with exacerbating your anxiety and possibly taking steps down the road to where your use ends up harming you instead of making you high and happy, which is always a signifier that it is time to stop, reevaluate WHY you use it and weigh the pros and cons mate.
Meth's negative side effects far outweigh the (negligible, again IMO and WML) positives of the drug, especially with preexistent anxiety issues.

Would hate to see you posting back here in a few months telling us about a psychotic episode or an increase in your anxiety.

Love, light and stay safe bro.

 

[hyroller]

This fucking blows, I just want to be able to enjoy the drug again.

This is more or less where I have ended up.

for better or worse, hey

 

[Crankinit]

If you're going to insist on using, which IMO (and with my love) is a stupid move, then use a benzo on top to deal with the anxiety. Sorry to be so blunt. I've got too soft of a spot for the shite, and understand completely the motivation/and or compulsion to use. However, you are flirting with exacerbating your anxiety and possibly taking steps down the road to where your use ends up harming you instead of making you high and happy, which is always a signifier that it is time to stop, reevaluate WHY you use it and weigh the pros and cons mate.
Meth's negative side effects far outweigh the (negligible, again IMO and WML) positives of the drug, especially with preexistent anxiety issues.

Would hate to see you posting back here in a few months telling us about a psychotic episode or an increase in your anxiety.

Love, light and stay safe bro.

Oh don't worry man, I fully realise how stupid a decision it is to keep using speed. I just, dunno, have a hard time picturing my life without meth in there somewhere. Doesn't help that it's the only drug I'm into that's readily available atm, the alternative is more or less sobriety, and I get far too bored far too quick to handle that :/ If I had ready access to something I found equally captivating and a little less toxic, I probably wouldn't be posting here.

I mean I'm not an addict, but it's kind of like sex. Sure I'll survive if I don't get it today, or tomorrow, or the day after, but start talking about months/years without and it gets a little freaky, and the concept of never having it again is just, incomprehensable. And when it's constantly on offer, really it's only a matter of time before 'eventually' becomes 'soon' and 'soon' becomes 'now.'

This is more or less where I have ended up.

for better or worse, hey

I think it was actually one of your posts I read a few days back and really related to, about having a similar experience with meth.

What a bitch of a drug :/

 

[unsettled]

I suffer from the dreaded panic attacks as well, I've been dealing with it for years now and it has improved somewhat, partly from the meds and partly because I know what it is and I'm much more informed and therefore less scared than I used to be. Still I get the occasional panic attack from hell.

I think in general stimulants aren't good for anxiety but I've found there are exceptions. For me small amounts of D-amphetamine can actually decrease my anxiety but I have to keep the doses small, make sure I eat and sleep well, and don't abuse it.

If you're not willing to take a good long break I'd recommend making sure you're getting enough sleep and eating well, take small amounts and don't use it every day, even if that only means you're skipping one day a week.

I don't know anything about meth if that's what you're using, I've been around it, seen it and been offered it a handful of times but it never looked appealing to me. I'm sure I'd like it if I'd try it, another reason to stay away.

 

[dishearten]

ugh..
bad combo.

 

[Crankinit]

Maybe a blessing in disguise, I was just prescribed amitriptyline (doctor thinks my back pain might be neuropathic). Apparently amphetamines + tricyclics is a big nono, so it looks like I'm on some more forced abstinance, for the short term anyway.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Amphetamine use enhances the way your body uses NE (upregulation? I think... might be another mode of action), which is why you have increased anxiety.

You should use it more sparingly, more time to come down in between each experience will help.

 

[DexysMidnightRuner]

ive totally been there. ive been close to an o/d on amps three times. its really not a pleasant experience, and from what others have said it does feel like your dieing. the only way to handle it without calling 911 is to realize whats happening and remain calm (extrealy hard i know) if you start to freak out it will just make everything worse - accelerated heart etc. once you've had an experience like that, amps really never feel the same. amps definitely enhance anxiety and if its meth, well that is most certainly the cause. going by what everyone else said, take a break, get some help, lay low. if you must do uppers try adderall or focalin, its not a great alternative but its a bit better on your body then meth.

 

[Crankinit]

I've actually found the opposite, we don't have adderall over here but d-amp feels a lot harsher on the body than meth, especially once you've been going for a day or so.

A nonissue anyway, I got rid of the last of my stash, going on these tricyclics for at least a month to see if they help with my back pain, and I'll go from there. Feeling a lot more clearheaded than I was over the weekend and it just seems fucking stupid to keep messing with the drug if it's going to make me feel like ass. I mean I'm 20 and meth isn't going anywhere, plenty of time to take a serious break and party later on.

Shortness of breath seems to have cleared up, but quite a lot of chest pain and palpitations still. I want to go see a doctor and get it checked out, but do 'not' want any reference to drug use recorded, since that could fuck with future career plans. But I'm worried if I don't mention the speed use, the OD, etc. they won't know what to look for, or will write it off as anxiety. Will have to figure out a way around it, but it'd be really nice to either have some peace of mind or at the least to know what I'm dealing with.

 

[MatthewD]

I appologize for not contributing to this thread, but I don't have much time to use the internet at the moment. I did notice, however, that Crankinit has very similar issues to me, and I saw this after posting a thread of my own. I did too much Meth, and ever since have massive Anxiety when it comes to any altered state, basically, and lingering Anxiety. I'm worried I've wrecked myself!