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Anxiety and E

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Chicane

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
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18
Hi guys, I rolled for the second time (the first time i had 1/2 pill with no effect) about 3 months ago with some friends. Initially I took 1 pill and then after I peaked I was so out of it that I ended up taking 2 more pills over the course of the next four hours. For the past 3 months I have had quite a bit of anxiety (and panic attacks in the week following the roll). Its gradually getting better but just wondering if anyone has had similar experiences? I'm quite keen to roll again but am not sure if I should be looking at taking a 1/4 or 1/2 next time (obviously I have a pretty low tolerance so taking a full one would be a no no!). Any thoughts? Thanks guys
 
Hi Chicane,

Welcome to Bluelight.

I've recently started collecting data on people who appear to incur anxiety/panic reactions.

Would you mind if I ask you a bunch of questions (some may seem kind of off the wall).

Thanks
 
I have had panic attacks for like 9 months since I took ecstasy. I did stop drinking alcohol and smoking after e turned my life for the better and the anxiety is getting less now, but panic attacks is a side effect that I have incurred...
 
definately. Ecstacy will bring out panic attacks and anxiety in those prone to it. It seems to trigger anxiety reactions in some people, including myself (after heavy use over 2 years). Reactions which may persist for a lot longer than the experience itself. Even those who would not admit to it having any detrimental effect, to those who know them well it is very obvious that it has altered their mental health for the worse. The fact is E will cause damage. I dont know if its neurotoxicity or whether it merely emphasises or excarbates certain negative aspects of personality long term. The fact is Ecstacy is an amazing, life changing drug, because it is so positive, and probably is, if used cautiously. the problem is a drug so good, inevitably becomes part of a lifestyle choice, and, simply put, you cannot live a lifestyle which involves E because you will end up using lots of it. Ideally I would like to have done E around 10 times and left it at that. You cannot continue doing E over a long period of time, even if only using it a month at a time. It will cause anxiety and depression Whether or not this is due to the intensity of the experience (as it compares to the bare facts of reality and the banality of average lived experience) or whether it damages your brain remains to be seen. I dont know, but the basic result is the same. Personally i think it fucks up your brain chemistry, since panic attacks derealisation etc have been linked to low serotonin levels. However, any drug which challenges your view of reality is bound to lead to a certain amount of ontological anxiety, ennui and just a sheer fucked up perspective of reality (or rather a true perspective of a fucked up reality). Even some of the strongest minds will be broken by drugs, some of the weakest will remain intact. Everything continues. All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well.
(I may be a nut, but dont call me an etard!). Keep safe. It will pass.
 
Panic attacks is the scariest thing I experienced in my life, scarier than standing under burning WTC and watching people jump. And yet, I would say the whole experience was worth it.

As to what causes them it is hard to know. It could be lower serotonin, although I feel like my general well-being got significantly better after e experience. It could also be norepinephrine, as e does affect that transmitter as well as dopamine. It also could be psychological, we are hearing so much crap about e from gov-t, that it could be the fear of smth going wrong with you later in life after you took e, that causes the anxiety.

Needless to say, gov-t screwed this whole e war up. Instead of spending money on trying to come up with false test results, gov-t should investigate the cause of panic attacks in e users, and at least stop scarying the users, who might be getting those as a result of all bad publicity.

As a side note, i got my panic attacks, 1 month after i took e, and NOT immediately. After I took e, I was very concerned about my life, that e screwed me up, and also started to really care about living, before I wanted to die.
 
falstaff said:
definately. Ecstacy will bring out panic attacks and anxiety in those prone to it. It seems to trigger anxiety reactions in some people, including myself (after heavy use over 2 years). Reactions which may persist for a lot longer than the experience itself. Even those who would not admit to it having any detrimental effect, to those who know them well it is very obvious that it has altered their mental health for the worse. The fact is E will cause damage. I dont know if its neurotoxicity or whether it merely emphasises or excarbates certain negative aspects of personality long term. The fact is Ecstacy is an amazing, life changing drug, because it is so positive, and probably is, if used cautiously. the problem is a drug so good, inevitably becomes part of a lifestyle choice, and, simply put, you cannot live a lifestyle which involves E because you will end up using lots of it. Ideally I would like to have done E around 10 times and left it at that. You cannot continue doing E over a long period of time, even if only using it a month at a time. It will cause anxiety and depression Whether or not this is due to the intensity of the experience (as it compares to the bare facts of reality and the banality of average lived experience) or whether it damages your brain remains to be seen. I dont know, but the basic result is the same. Personally i think it fucks up your brain chemistry, since panic attacks derealisation etc have been linked to low serotonin levels. However, any drug which challenges your view of reality is bound to lead to a certain amount of ontological anxiety, ennui and just a sheer fucked up perspective of reality (or rather a true perspective of a fucked up reality). Even some of the strongest minds will be broken by drugs, some of the weakest will remain intact. Everything continues. All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well.
(I may be a nut, but dont call me an etard!). Keep safe. It will pass.
Click to expand...

^^^This is %100 tru, no matter what invalid user name may say out of his textbook
 
Post anxiety might be a side effect that some people experience, but like with any drug the side effects are only experienced by a percentage of the user population. Personally I've suffered from anxiety attacks since 1998. I've been using moderate doses of MDMA on occasion, and I don't think that MDMA has affected my anxiety at all. As a matter of fact I took a pill July 3rd, and I haven't had an anxiety attack since I dosed.

I guess I should also note that I haven't taken more than 1 pill in a night, and I only roll about 6-8 times a year.
 
falstaff said:
definately. Ecstacy will bring out panic attacks and anxiety in those prone to it. It seems to trigger anxiety reactions in some people, including myself (after heavy use over 2 years). Reactions which may persist for a lot longer than the experience itself. Even those who would not admit to it having any detrimental effect, to those who know them well it is very obvious that it has altered their mental health for the worse. The fact is E will cause damage. I dont know if its neurotoxicity or whether it merely emphasises or excarbates certain negative aspects of personality long term. The fact is Ecstacy is an amazing, life changing drug, because it is so positive, and probably is, if used cautiously. the problem is a drug so good, inevitably becomes part of a lifestyle choice, and, simply put, you cannot live a lifestyle which involves E because you will end up using lots of it. Ideally I would like to have done E around 10 times and left it at that. You cannot continue doing E over a long period of time, even if only using it a month at a time. It will cause anxiety and depression Whether or not this is due to the intensity of the experience (as it compares to the bare facts of reality and the banality of average lived experience) or whether it damages your brain remains to be seen. I dont know, but the basic result is the same. Personally i think it fucks up your brain chemistry, since panic attacks derealisation etc have been linked to low serotonin levels. However, any drug which challenges your view of reality is bound to lead to a certain amount of ontological anxiety, ennui and just a sheer fucked up perspective of reality (or rather a true perspective of a fucked up reality). Even some of the strongest minds will be broken by drugs, some of the weakest will remain intact. Everything continues. All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well.
(I may be a nut, but dont call me an etard!). Keep safe. It will pass.
Click to expand...

I know what u r talkin about.

and i can understand how u feel bout it.

but personally I dont believe E is doin alot of real brain damage ( except for those who v really exaggerated with it ) , the damage it can do is mainly psychologically ( but the mind is strong and this can have severe consequences )

If ur havin panic attacks it's becuz u cant really handle the E , it's becuz ur mind isnt able to process the E-experience u had, that's how I feel about. so what should u do? take a break and wait for the rite time. that's all

and relax! smoke a splif once in while, that might help, but dont exaggerate cuz it might get u paranoid

and dont take any other prescription drug, for instance a drug which might calm u down and stop the anxiety....i strongly disapprove this!!!
 
s0nic said:
Post anxiety might be a side effect that some people experience, but like with any drug the side effects are only experienced by a percentage of the user population. Personally I've suffered from anxiety attacks since 1998. I've been using moderate doses of MDMA on occasion, and I don't think that MDMA has affected my anxiety at all. As a matter of fact I took a pill July 3rd, and I haven't had an anxiety attack since I dosed.

I guess I should also note that I haven't taken more than 1 pill in a night, and I only roll about 6-8 times a year.
Click to expand...

after my first time i suffered from severe anxiety and i only took 1! so what ur sayin is BS. everyone is different! everyone is unique!

+ the one i took that nite wasnt a "heavy pill" at all, in fact my friend, who was with me ( he 's older and had lots of experience with it ) took 2 at once
 
phinerone said:
^^^This is %100 tru, no matter what invalid user name may say out of his textbook
Click to expand...

Source: The National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH)

How Common Is Panic Disorder?
  • About 1.7 percent of the adult U.S. population ages 18 to 54—approximately 2.4 million Americans—has panic disorder in a given year.
  • Women are twice as likely as men to develop panic disorder.
  • Panic disorder typically strikes in young adulthood. Roughly half of all people who have panic disorder develop the condition before age 24.
NOTE: As best I can recall, no anxiety/panic attack related affliction has ever been reported in this forum by a female. However, the ratio of women to men, in the Ecstasy Discussion forum, is disproportionate to the overall population. Which is what I believe accounts for this disparity.




Bluelight does not maintain a record of visitor traffic. So I am basing my estimates on other web sites which are equally busy, and feature public forums.


I guestimate that the total number of visitors to the "Ecstasy Discussions" forum per day is greater than 1,000 individuals, with the majority (75%?) of those being non-registered visitors. Judging from the level of participation (actual posts) in the forum, visits from 250 registered members "seems" about right (within any internet population for every post made by an individual, there are roughly 20 visitors who visited but did not post.).


Where am I going with this?

Glad you asked! I would estimate that ED is visited by at least 250 "registered" members (i.e.,visitors with posting rights) per day. Given the nature of the forum's topic, I would guess that at least 50% of these visitors have tried MDMA at least one time in their life. Out of that 50%, I would guess that about 1/3 use MDMA more than 2 times per year.

This means that 41.25 registered visitors in any given day are regular MDMA users ("regular" meaning anywhere from a few pills per year, to more than once per month).

These 41.25 registered visitors are NOT the total population of visitors fitting the "regular MDMA users" category. They are simply the ones who have visited the forum on any given day. Some may visit once per day, others may stop by once per week, and others may visit only occasionally, still others may have frequented in the past but no longer visit. I would suspect that the majority of those fitting the "regular MDMA users" category either visit infrequently, or no longer attend.

At any rate, I am not willing to attempt guess the total population of those who are registered Bluelight members and "regular MDMA users," and who are currently Ecstasy Discussion visitors, or were Ecstasy Discussion visitors but are no longer active in the forum.

But I feel safe in saying that it well exceeds 1,000 persons (and chances are that it could very well greatly exceed 10,000 persons). But to err on the very safe side, lets use 1,000 persons.

Given the statistics provided by the National Institute of Mental Health, we would have 17 members who are prone to a panic attack disorder. That is solely based on population averages, and has nothing to do with MDMA use.


Given all of that, the number of cases reporting anxiety/panic attack disorders due to suspected MDMA use is incredibly small. Thousands and thousands of people come through this forum, and only on rare occasions do we see someone who's concluded that they've acquired an anxiety/panic attack disorder as a result of their MDMA use.


For the record I do think, just as s0nic said, that someone with a disposition to having a panic attack disorder could find that heavy MDMA use aggravated it (and I have never said anything contrary to this). It could very simply be that such a person's brain keeps the disorder below threshold by counter balancing it with serotogenic actions. Take the serotonin away and the coping mechanism is disabled.

But I do not believe that anxiety/panic attack disorders are induced by MDMA in people who are not disposed to it.

Furthermore, if it was the case that MDMA induced anxiety/panic attack disorders in otherwise healthy individuals, we would be seeing numerous incidences of the condition.

As I've said (and this is beginning to sound like a broken record), worldwide over 30 million doses of MDMA are consumed each and every weekend. And this has been going on for over 10 years. Yet, the occurrence of anxiety/panic attack disorders are almost parallel to that of the general population. (1.7 percent of 30 million is 510,000 - so these incidences would be in addition to that number of suffers.)

Given all of this, and going back to the Ecstasy Discussions forum as a population sample, if there were a problem then we would be receiving countless reports of people who have acquired an anxiety/panic attack disorder. But the fact is that there are only a handful of persons who have ever reported it (squeaky wheel or not). And it is not reasonable to conclude that MDMA causes these problems when so few experience them. It just doesn't fit into a public health model.


And anyone reading this, PLEASE understand that I am not attempting to make light of a very life crippling malady. Anxiety/panic attack disorders essentially hijack your life, leaving you in a situation where at any moment this monster could strike. I know it very well as I once suffered from agoraphobia, and I have also lived with panic attacks.

.
 
Last edited:
Pornaddict since '92 said:
after my first time i suffered from severe anxiety and i only took 1! so what ur sayin is BS. everyone is different! everyone is unique!

+ the one i took that nite wasnt a "heavy pill" at all, in fact my friend, who was with me ( he 's older and had lots of experience with it ) took 2 at once
Click to expand...
The question in my mind is was the anxiety chronic after that, or was that a single event?

As I mentioned in my [yet again loong dissertation] I think that it is possible (in theory) that some people (or better, their brains) manage to maintain the anxiety below threshold via a serotogenic response. MDMA depletes serotonin, thus disabling the internal coping mechanism.

But the important thing to consider is that this should not be a chronic condition. because as soon as the serotonin levels are back to baseline, the coping mechanism will be fully active again.

But I do see a in this if the sufferer begins to believe that they are neurologically damaged. This could lead to circular thinking which would result in maintaining a high anxiety state. (The "fight or flight" mechanism can be triggered solely by a belief.)
 
Invalid Usename said:
The question in my mind is was the anxiety chronic after that, or was that a single event?

As I mentioned in my [yet again loong dissertation] I think that it is possible (in theory) that some people (or better, their brains) manage to maintain the anxiety below threshold via a serotogenic response. MDMA depletes serotonin, thus disabling the internal coping mechanism.

But the important thing to consider is that this should not be a chronic condition. because as soon as the serotonin levels are back to baseline, the coping mechanism will be fully active again.

But I do see a in this if the sufferer begins to believe that they are neurologically damaged. This could lead to circular thinking which would result in maintaining a high anxiety state. (The "fight or flight" mechanism can be triggered solely by a belief.)
Click to expand...

no it wasnt chronical, offcourse not!!!

the thing is : the week after my first time I felt extremely happy ( the entire week ) I felt so good I forgot to smoke ganja.

when I finally did smoke ganja agian it made me extremely paranoid and then the anxiety began, in fact.

two weeks after my firts roll the anxiety attacks began 4 real.

---> i just couldnt concentrate on anythin anymore , when I was half way tru a paragraph I had to read it again becuz I had forgotten all about it. I remember I went to see a movie with friends ( who didnt knew bout my roll ) and I simly couldnt concentrate on it, my mind was busy with other things, i simply couldn stop thinkin bout everythin. afterwards my friends asked me bout the movie and I had to make up things cuz I simply knew nothin bout it.

anyway: i felt so bad and i was convinced i had fucked up my entire body ( every single cell) i went to seek "professional" help. ( dont do it )
---> the anxiety stopped, but I couldnt handle the pills they gave me, i felt and acted like a zombie...this was no solution to my problem... ( afterwards I ve found out that so called dr. is an alcoholic =D )

i felt even more sick, becuz of those pills , hence I went to see a "special doctor" , a socalled "homeophatic" doctor...

i know many ppl are sceptic bout homeopathic stuff, but it helped 4 me, i was able to concentrate again and study (and pass) for my exams.
 
Invalid Usename said:
This could lead to circular thinking which would result in maintaining a high anxiety state. (The "fight or flight" mechanism can be triggered solely by a belief.)
Click to expand...

exactly : i m "afraid"=D i m very familiar with those circular thinking pathways
 
Thanks guys for your responses. What confuses me is if I take less E (say 1/4 or 1/2 a hit as opposed to 1 pill) will this mean that my anxiety/panic attacks are less? I guess I don't really understand how serotonin is released i.e. will 1/4 of a pill release less serotonin than 1 pill??? Hopes this makes sense!!
 
Though I don't like to blame drugs solely on my life mental issues I certainly believe they have contributed to my current mental state. After using Ecstasy regularly for 3YRS and since stopping, I now suffer extreme anxiety and common panic attacks. Within suffering from these disorders then comes some depression. It's very much a catch-22 situation.

You live, You learn.

shals :D
 
Chicane said:
Thanks guys for your responses. What confuses me is if I take less E (say 1/4 or 1/2 a hit as opposed to 1 pill) will this mean that my anxiety/panic attacks are less? I guess I don't really understand how serotonin is released i.e. will 1/4 of a pill release less serotonin than 1 pill??? Hopes this makes sense!!
Click to expand...
Yes, less MDMA equals less serotonin being released. But as far as producing less intensity of anxiety/panic attacks, I don't really think anyone can answer that question with any real sense of certainity.
 
Chicane said:
Thanks guys for your responses. What confuses me is if I take less E (say 1/4 or 1/2 a hit as opposed to 1 pill) will this mean that my anxiety/panic attacks are less? I guess I don't really understand how serotonin is released i.e. will 1/4 of a pill release less serotonin than 1 pill??? Hopes this makes sense!!
Click to expand...

do u always have anxiety attacks?

if so, the answer is definetely yes. ;)
 
Pornaddict since '92 said:
no it wasnt chronical, offcourse not!!!

the thing is : the week after my first time I felt extremely happy ( the entire week ) I felt so good I forgot to smoke ganja.

when I finally did smoke ganja agian it made me extremely paranoid and then the anxiety began, in fact.

two weeks after my firts roll the anxiety attacks began 4 real.

---> i just couldnt concentrate on anythin anymore , when I was half way tru a paragraph I had to read it again becuz I had forgotten all about it. I remember I went to see a movie with friends ( who didnt knew bout my roll ) and I simly couldnt concentrate on it, my mind was busy with other things, i simply couldn stop thinkin bout everythin. afterwards my friends asked me bout the movie and I had to make up things cuz I simply knew nothin bout it.

anyway: i felt so bad and i was convinced i had fucked up my entire body ( every single cell) i went to seek "professional" help. ( dont do it )
---> the anxiety stopped, but I couldnt handle the pills they gave me, i felt and acted like a zombie...this was no solution to my problem... ( afterwards I ve found out that so called dr. is an alcoholic =D )

i felt even more sick, becuz of those pills , hence I went to see a "special doctor" , a socalled "homeophatic" doctor...

i know many ppl are sceptic bout homeopathic stuff, but it helped 4 me, i was able to concentrate again and study (and pass) for my exams.
Click to expand...
I've noticed that several people have reported the same thing regarding pot triggering the onset of their anxiety. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have a clue as to how pot induces intoxication. (I actually gave up pot a long time ago because I feel too foggy on it.)

It might be worth looking into the how's and why's of THC's effects. Perhaps there is some kind of synergy which occurs in conjunction with MDMA use? (Does anyone here have a working understanding of THC neuropharmacology?)

If you don't mind my asking, what did the physician prescribe for you?

As far as Homeopathy goes, every bone in my body says "quack." OK, now that I've said that... :)

One of my ex's and I often went to this one Indian restaurant about every other weekend. The food was great, but I swear that part of their ingredients was neutron star material. Because for about two hours after dinner, the food would feel as though it continued to expand in your stomach. And by the time we got home, we'd both be rolling around on the floor pleading for death. (Somehow, after two weeks went by, we'd forget our near death experience and go back for more. :D )

Anyway, Debbie (my ex.) was a grad student in nursing, and had been studying various forms of alternative medicine. And she had several homeopathic remedies lying around for an upset stomach. She'd read a few [off the wall] questions off of this list, and then depending on either my or her answer one of the remedies would be recommended.

What is weird, is that every time she'd give it to me, the feeling that I was about to explode all over the living room wall would immediately stop. Either they we made of anti-neutron star matter (thus canceling out the Indian restaurant's "secret ingredient") or it was one hell of a great placebo effect. Or.. maybe it was even something else?


Anyway, it doesn't matter what one does. If someone goes to a Homeopath and the treatment works, that is what counts. :)
 
The First and only anxiety/panic attack I ever had was after dropping about 15 E's over a 3 day span. It was pretty scary and intense, most likely due to my sketch factor.

I still consider myself lucky though; it could have been so much worse.

If you abuse drugs they'll abuse you :)
 
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