Tryptamine*Dreamer
Ex-Bluelighter
A lot of us here have trouble with depression or bipolar disorder. I have either major depression or bipolar II disorder (diagnosed as the latter, but they may have been wrong). I have been on many antidepressants and combos of antidepressants and other psych meds. Some were prescribed by doctors; others I tested on myself. None have been highly effective, but I have found two drugs that work better than any others I have used(tianeptine and selegiline). They also work better combined, but are still not nearly as good as I would like.
I am trying to see if anyone here has found a med or combo that works really well. I will rate my meds first. You can use whatever rating system you want. I'm going to rate mine on a -5 to +5 scale with negative numbers indicating a worsening of symptoms (-5 would be attempting suicide or becoming homicidal when you were not previously suicidal or homicidal) and side effects rated 0 to 5 with 0 being no side effects, 3 being severe enough that you'd probably quit using it even if it is working well for your depression and 5 as life threatening side effects.
The first number is the effectiveness and second is side effects. I'll make a short description of effects after rating. I am trying to rate the effectiveness of the drugs on improving overall mood for depression and not for other positive effects such as on anxiety or insomnia. Some of the meds would get much better ratings if I included that.
If you want to rate your experiences, you can respond with a simple numeric rating or go in depth about the positives and/or negatives of the drug or combo of drugs. I’m really just wanting to find out what works best for others.
Paroxetine/Paxil: -3,2
This induced an unpleasant state which continued to get worse over the 2-3 weeks I was on it. Anxiety levels went up and I developed severe insomnia. The depression seemed to increase some and I had more mood swings. I felt tense all the time and had a feeling of inner turmoil that sometimes led me to scream into the air and hit, bite, or even stab myself with shards of glass. It increased suicidal ideation to the point that I was making plans to do it. It also caused nausea the whole time and daily headaches but those symptoms may have been improving when I quit. The exacerbation of symptoms subsided within a short time of quitting.
Fluoxetine/Prozac: -1,1
Caused insomnia and anxiety without affecting my depression. Caused nausea at times and increased headache frequency.
Venlafaxine/Effexor: -3,3
This caused much of the same effects as Paxil/Paroxetine but there was also a feeling of being too energized in a bad way. I lost the ability to focus on anything and all kinds of bad thoughts kept running through my head constantly. The thoughts made even watching TV impossible, they were obtrusive and impossible to ignore. I had near constant anxiety. I felt like I was losing my mind by the time I quit and I was probably more depressed at that point. I only stayed on it for two weeks because the physical side effects were too bad and judging from the mental effects up to that point, it would probably not have worked even if I had stayed on it for the 4-8 weeks it takes these meds to produce maximum benefits. Side effects were persistent nausea with occasional vomiting, headache, dizziness, tachycardia (heart rate stayed above 100 the whole two weeks, sometimes 130+bpm), hypertension (as high as 190/120), and excessive sweating.
Trazadone: 1,1
Seems to help my anxiety. May have helped some with the depression but probably because it helped me sleep. Now I take it just as a sleep aid on occasion or a small 50-100mg dose for anxiety attacks with a benzo. It increases the effectiveness of benzos and makes them work with less. After breaks in use, I can still get weak AD effects but can only use it 2 or 3 weeks at a time for that. The only side effects are drowsiness/sedation (desired by me) and dry mouth. Not very good as an antidepressant, somewhat effective for acute anxiety, and moderately effective for insomnia when used for two weeks or less.
Sertraline/Zoloft: 0.75,1.5
My depression may have improved slightly but if so it did not seem to last. I was very suicidal shortly before getting it prescribed. I was on a lower dose which had no effect. I had to be hospitalized due to my suicidality. After they doubled the dose, I was feeling less suicidal after about a week and was discharged after two weeks, though only because I exaggerated the improvements. This medication initially caused severe insomnia and after 10 days with maybe 3 or 4 hours of sleep for all nights combined I started feeling delusional and having hallucinations. I knew it was lack of sleep so I did not tell anyone about it. The insomnia subsided almost completely within 3 weeks. For the first week of treatment, I developed extreme anger to the point of rage, yelling, screaming, and saying horrible things to employees of the institution. I had a reason to be angry though, they would not give me anything for insomnia even knowing that I had been awake all but 4 or 5 hours of the last 11 days and would not do anything about my severe panic attacks. Benefits were modest and seemed to either be temporary or it only helped part of the time. I quit using it due to lack of effects.
Quietiapine/Seroquel: 1,1
This is not an antidepressant but is used in treatment of depression. After the Zoloft had seemed to quit working, this was added and it produced a small but noticeable mood lift that did not seem to go away with time. It is immediately effective as well. It seems more useful in decreasing frequency of panic attacks. It also helps with insomnia but not as much as trazadone and only for a week or two before it loses effectiveness. The only bothersome side effect for me has been occasional dry mouth but some report really bad side effects.
Divalproex Sodium/Depakote: 0.5,0
Did little to improve mood, but it is a mood stabilizer, not an antidepressant. It helped with mood swings and I did not get suicidal as often while on it. I also stopped burning myself while I was on it. It increased my energy level some and kept me from sleeping if I took it at night. Taken in the morning, this was a good thing. No side effects that I noticed other than insomnia when I was taking it at night. It helped me when I was on it, just not much for the depression.
Selegiline: 1.5/2
This one works very well for a mood and energy lift when taken occasionally as needed and would get a higher rating if I could take it more than a couple of days per week. Unfortunately, it causes severe insomnia with near complete lack of sleep by the second or third night along with increasing anxiety. I have been unable to use it long enough to find out if the side effects may ease with longer treatment. It is useful when used a couple of times per week without significant side effects. This could be a wonder drug for me if I not for the insomnia. I will be trying to take it for a longer time again later to see if that side effect might subside.
Bupropion/Wellbutrin: 1.5,2.5
This medication works well for energy without major side effects for 2-3 days and provides slight mood improvement. Side effects increase rapidly after that with severe insomnia and blood pressure elevation. Forced to stay on it in a mental hospital, the side effects started decreasing again after a week or so but blood pressure had risen to near 200/120 before that happened and was >175/100 for three days straight. Within a little over a week, my mood had become very elevated to hypomania from a suicidal state. Unfortunately, it seemed to completely stop working within a couple of months and I eventually stopped using it because it was still causing frequent insomnia and increased anxiety.
Tianeptine/Stablon: 1.75,0.5
Has had a modest but long lasting benefit on mood. Slight mood lift and an improved ability to feel good things. It is the latter effect that has seemed persistent with the mood improvement at best a part time effect. Slightly improved motivation. This med has quite noticeably decreased anxiety and panic attacks. It has produced a lasting decrease in insomnia, at times I have even slept more than normal on this. There are episodes on this med where it seems to barely do anything for mood, but these episodes tend to last only a month or so at most. Other meds I have used seem to lose effectiveness and only work again after prolonged abstinence and without many of the benefits that this med has. Side effects for first two weeks are persistent headache and slight-moderate decrease in blood pressure. It seems to have produced a lasting small decrease in blood pressure. The only bothersome side effect is the occasional oversleeping. Also, running out caused severe, persistent anxiety and a complete inability to sleep that lasted about ten days and did not respond to treatment even with a combo of benzos, Phenobarbital, trazadone, and Seroquel.
Now I will write about a couple of combos that seemed better than any med on its own. I am going to leave out the meds that did not seem to have lasting effects.
Trazadone+Seroquel: 1.5,1
This combo had me feeling better than either med alone. The seroquel has a lasting positive effect on mood. The trazadone will work a couple of weeks and then I need a break to get it working again. I can only use this part time.
Tianeptine+Seroquel+Trazadone: 2,1
My mood seems to be best when I am using all three of these. On all three of these, I probably have less than half as many panic attacks than I would with just Tianeptine or just the Trazadone+Seroquel combo. Increased benefit on mood when not anxious is harder to distinguish and could be imagined although decreased anxiety tends to occur with improved mood.
The hypomanic episode with Wellbutrin occurred while also on Zoloft, Trazadone, and Seroquel. The Zoloft had already seemed to stop working months prior to starting Wellbutrin and this combo seemed to stop working after a while too. I am pretty sure neither wellbutrin or Zoloft were helping after a while because I dropped the Zoloft first without worsening my condition after maybe two weeks off. After quitting the Wellbutrin after that, my mood improved almost immediately, probably because I could sleep better and was less anxious. Restarting Zoloft later did not cause any meaningful change and I quit it again after a while. Stopping the Seroquel and Trazadone made me feel more depressed and greatly increased my anxiety.
Of everything I have tried, Tianeptine seems to be a lot better than the others especially when its anxiolytic effects are also considered. It is unique among them in that it increased my ability to feel positive emotions and that it still works after probably near a year on it, though it lost some of its effectiveness after the first couple of months.
I am trying to see if anyone here has found a med or combo that works really well. I will rate my meds first. You can use whatever rating system you want. I'm going to rate mine on a -5 to +5 scale with negative numbers indicating a worsening of symptoms (-5 would be attempting suicide or becoming homicidal when you were not previously suicidal or homicidal) and side effects rated 0 to 5 with 0 being no side effects, 3 being severe enough that you'd probably quit using it even if it is working well for your depression and 5 as life threatening side effects.
The first number is the effectiveness and second is side effects. I'll make a short description of effects after rating. I am trying to rate the effectiveness of the drugs on improving overall mood for depression and not for other positive effects such as on anxiety or insomnia. Some of the meds would get much better ratings if I included that.
If you want to rate your experiences, you can respond with a simple numeric rating or go in depth about the positives and/or negatives of the drug or combo of drugs. I’m really just wanting to find out what works best for others.
Paroxetine/Paxil: -3,2
This induced an unpleasant state which continued to get worse over the 2-3 weeks I was on it. Anxiety levels went up and I developed severe insomnia. The depression seemed to increase some and I had more mood swings. I felt tense all the time and had a feeling of inner turmoil that sometimes led me to scream into the air and hit, bite, or even stab myself with shards of glass. It increased suicidal ideation to the point that I was making plans to do it. It also caused nausea the whole time and daily headaches but those symptoms may have been improving when I quit. The exacerbation of symptoms subsided within a short time of quitting.
Fluoxetine/Prozac: -1,1
Caused insomnia and anxiety without affecting my depression. Caused nausea at times and increased headache frequency.
Venlafaxine/Effexor: -3,3
This caused much of the same effects as Paxil/Paroxetine but there was also a feeling of being too energized in a bad way. I lost the ability to focus on anything and all kinds of bad thoughts kept running through my head constantly. The thoughts made even watching TV impossible, they were obtrusive and impossible to ignore. I had near constant anxiety. I felt like I was losing my mind by the time I quit and I was probably more depressed at that point. I only stayed on it for two weeks because the physical side effects were too bad and judging from the mental effects up to that point, it would probably not have worked even if I had stayed on it for the 4-8 weeks it takes these meds to produce maximum benefits. Side effects were persistent nausea with occasional vomiting, headache, dizziness, tachycardia (heart rate stayed above 100 the whole two weeks, sometimes 130+bpm), hypertension (as high as 190/120), and excessive sweating.
Trazadone: 1,1
Seems to help my anxiety. May have helped some with the depression but probably because it helped me sleep. Now I take it just as a sleep aid on occasion or a small 50-100mg dose for anxiety attacks with a benzo. It increases the effectiveness of benzos and makes them work with less. After breaks in use, I can still get weak AD effects but can only use it 2 or 3 weeks at a time for that. The only side effects are drowsiness/sedation (desired by me) and dry mouth. Not very good as an antidepressant, somewhat effective for acute anxiety, and moderately effective for insomnia when used for two weeks or less.
Sertraline/Zoloft: 0.75,1.5
My depression may have improved slightly but if so it did not seem to last. I was very suicidal shortly before getting it prescribed. I was on a lower dose which had no effect. I had to be hospitalized due to my suicidality. After they doubled the dose, I was feeling less suicidal after about a week and was discharged after two weeks, though only because I exaggerated the improvements. This medication initially caused severe insomnia and after 10 days with maybe 3 or 4 hours of sleep for all nights combined I started feeling delusional and having hallucinations. I knew it was lack of sleep so I did not tell anyone about it. The insomnia subsided almost completely within 3 weeks. For the first week of treatment, I developed extreme anger to the point of rage, yelling, screaming, and saying horrible things to employees of the institution. I had a reason to be angry though, they would not give me anything for insomnia even knowing that I had been awake all but 4 or 5 hours of the last 11 days and would not do anything about my severe panic attacks. Benefits were modest and seemed to either be temporary or it only helped part of the time. I quit using it due to lack of effects.
Quietiapine/Seroquel: 1,1
This is not an antidepressant but is used in treatment of depression. After the Zoloft had seemed to quit working, this was added and it produced a small but noticeable mood lift that did not seem to go away with time. It is immediately effective as well. It seems more useful in decreasing frequency of panic attacks. It also helps with insomnia but not as much as trazadone and only for a week or two before it loses effectiveness. The only bothersome side effect for me has been occasional dry mouth but some report really bad side effects.
Divalproex Sodium/Depakote: 0.5,0
Did little to improve mood, but it is a mood stabilizer, not an antidepressant. It helped with mood swings and I did not get suicidal as often while on it. I also stopped burning myself while I was on it. It increased my energy level some and kept me from sleeping if I took it at night. Taken in the morning, this was a good thing. No side effects that I noticed other than insomnia when I was taking it at night. It helped me when I was on it, just not much for the depression.
Selegiline: 1.5/2
This one works very well for a mood and energy lift when taken occasionally as needed and would get a higher rating if I could take it more than a couple of days per week. Unfortunately, it causes severe insomnia with near complete lack of sleep by the second or third night along with increasing anxiety. I have been unable to use it long enough to find out if the side effects may ease with longer treatment. It is useful when used a couple of times per week without significant side effects. This could be a wonder drug for me if I not for the insomnia. I will be trying to take it for a longer time again later to see if that side effect might subside.
Bupropion/Wellbutrin: 1.5,2.5
This medication works well for energy without major side effects for 2-3 days and provides slight mood improvement. Side effects increase rapidly after that with severe insomnia and blood pressure elevation. Forced to stay on it in a mental hospital, the side effects started decreasing again after a week or so but blood pressure had risen to near 200/120 before that happened and was >175/100 for three days straight. Within a little over a week, my mood had become very elevated to hypomania from a suicidal state. Unfortunately, it seemed to completely stop working within a couple of months and I eventually stopped using it because it was still causing frequent insomnia and increased anxiety.
Tianeptine/Stablon: 1.75,0.5
Has had a modest but long lasting benefit on mood. Slight mood lift and an improved ability to feel good things. It is the latter effect that has seemed persistent with the mood improvement at best a part time effect. Slightly improved motivation. This med has quite noticeably decreased anxiety and panic attacks. It has produced a lasting decrease in insomnia, at times I have even slept more than normal on this. There are episodes on this med where it seems to barely do anything for mood, but these episodes tend to last only a month or so at most. Other meds I have used seem to lose effectiveness and only work again after prolonged abstinence and without many of the benefits that this med has. Side effects for first two weeks are persistent headache and slight-moderate decrease in blood pressure. It seems to have produced a lasting small decrease in blood pressure. The only bothersome side effect is the occasional oversleeping. Also, running out caused severe, persistent anxiety and a complete inability to sleep that lasted about ten days and did not respond to treatment even with a combo of benzos, Phenobarbital, trazadone, and Seroquel.
Now I will write about a couple of combos that seemed better than any med on its own. I am going to leave out the meds that did not seem to have lasting effects.
Trazadone+Seroquel: 1.5,1
This combo had me feeling better than either med alone. The seroquel has a lasting positive effect on mood. The trazadone will work a couple of weeks and then I need a break to get it working again. I can only use this part time.
Tianeptine+Seroquel+Trazadone: 2,1
My mood seems to be best when I am using all three of these. On all three of these, I probably have less than half as many panic attacks than I would with just Tianeptine or just the Trazadone+Seroquel combo. Increased benefit on mood when not anxious is harder to distinguish and could be imagined although decreased anxiety tends to occur with improved mood.
The hypomanic episode with Wellbutrin occurred while also on Zoloft, Trazadone, and Seroquel. The Zoloft had already seemed to stop working months prior to starting Wellbutrin and this combo seemed to stop working after a while too. I am pretty sure neither wellbutrin or Zoloft were helping after a while because I dropped the Zoloft first without worsening my condition after maybe two weeks off. After quitting the Wellbutrin after that, my mood improved almost immediately, probably because I could sleep better and was less anxious. Restarting Zoloft later did not cause any meaningful change and I quit it again after a while. Stopping the Seroquel and Trazadone made me feel more depressed and greatly increased my anxiety.
Of everything I have tried, Tianeptine seems to be a lot better than the others especially when its anxiolytic effects are also considered. It is unique among them in that it increased my ability to feel positive emotions and that it still works after probably near a year on it, though it lost some of its effectiveness after the first couple of months.
