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Antidepressant effect of D3 preferring dopamine agonists

Careful in the titration phase, it can make for a real yark-fest.

I take it TDS, 0.18mg/d and it was a bugger getting used to. Good now I have done though.
 
Perhaps one of you guys can expound about the greater efficacy of tricyclics??

I have to keep my options open, so I need to be aware of these things.
 
Tricyclic have greater efficacy because of their diverse pharmacology: they are serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, as well as sodium channel inhibitors. They block calcium channels. They block the 5-HT 2A and 5-HT 2C receptors: Amitryptiline and doxepin, for example. The 5-HT 2C receptor is widely implicated in depression. Completed suicides in depressed patients have been shown to have more 5-HT 2C in their brain than non-depressed patients. They also activate sigma receptors, which has been show to be beneficial in depression. The sodium and calcium channel inhibition is beneficial and offers mood stabilizing properties similar to anticonvulsant medications.
 
Are you a pharmacist?
I'm curious because, I'd like to become self educated to that degree, and would like to know the sources I can use to achieve this.

You mention Amitryptiline and doxepin.
I'm also heard of imiprimine.

I would use it to counter insomnia, as well as raise mood, alleviate IBS/diarrhea, chronic fatigue, and help put on some weight, cause I currently look like a stick figure.

Is there any particular tricyclic you would recommend?
Or perhaps point me in the direction of a link where I can research the finer points, so as to deduce the best potential option for myself...?
 
No, not a pharmacist. Do pharmacists know about pharmacology and neuroscience...? I would think they just know about pharmacokinetics and basic stuff. I studied chemistry and biochem in college for a bit...? And I'm studying neuroscience for when I go back.

The tricyclics used the most are perhaps elavil and pamelor. That's amitriptyline and nortriptyline. Amitritptyline is used for all of the indications you listed.



This is very good link (it provides a very good link on all antidepressants, even supplements like SAMe -which is something you should research...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...wwDJAjQpZeNvn3rgw&sig2=_Auh0GHl2f7lZbnpXF55Fw

It should direct you to a pdf download, if not let me know.


(methylation in the brain is a big cause for a lot of symptoms you listed especially chronic fatigue...things like L-methylfolate, methyl b12, and SAMe - which can be boosted exponentialy by 5-HTP and N acteyl l tyrosine can be exponentially more effective than an antidepressant without causing flat affect and emotional numbness, sexual dysfunction, and all the other awful side effects of antidepressants...)

You should ask your doctor to do bloodwork to see if you're in the population that can't process folic acid correctly.
 
I've been working through that link and enjoying it.

Not processing folic acid?
I've had blood work done and folic acid has come back within normal range.
Would that not be the case if folic acid disregulation was occurring?

The other thing to take into account I guess is that, mirtazipine has had a profound effect on my symptoms, just not allowed me full remission - which indicates to me that depression is in actual fact a root cause.
But - I'm always open to suggestion and intend to look further into the use of those supplements, SAMe etc.
Would the necessity for that be excluded if my folic acid levels were normal, though?
 
especially chronic fatigue...things like L-methylfolate, methyl b12, and SAMe - which can be boosted exponentialy by 5-HTP and N acteyl l tyrosine can be exponentially more effective than an antidepressant
Click to expand...
You are alluding here to using a supplement like SAMe in conjunction with 5-HTP....?
Now, I've never studied neuroscience, and come from an engineering/mathematics based background - so I have to research each of those denotations.

Looking into their use, there does seem to be some positive feedback, but not particularly widely used - and they do seem expensive.
 
Not it being in a normal range, that doesn't matter about methylation in your brain. Ask them to test to see if you they can test to see whether or not you can convert folic acid into folate, as a large percent of the population can not.

Here, check this out: http://mthfr.net/

Mirtazapine is a powerful antidepressant - one of the best that their is.

No, the necessity would not be excluded, you should still take them. Try them and see how much better you feel. And once again, it is not based on your folate levels.

Yes. Use it with 5-HTP and N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine, precursors to norepinphrine, dopamine, and serotonin, as well as methycobalamin, pryridoxal phosphate, and l 5 methylfolate. The previous three are necessities when using SAMe
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
Not it being in a normal range, that doesn't matter about methylation in your brain. Ask them to test to see if you they can test to see whether or not you can convert folic acid into folate, as a large percent of the population can not.

Here, check this out: http://mthfr.net/

Mirtazapine is a powerful antidepressant - one of the best that their is.

No, the necessity would not be excluded, you should still take them. Try them and see how much better you feel. And once again, it is not based on your folate levels.

Yes. Use it with 5-HTP and N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine, precursors to norepinphrine, dopamine, and serotonin, as well as methycobalamin, pryridoxal phosphate, and l 5 methylfolate. The previous three are necessities when using SAMe
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm gonna call my endocrinologist to run this by her.
Is there anything else I should mention while I have her on the phone, anything else to check for?
Looking at, methylation - the conversion of folic acid to folate.

Regarding those compounds you mentioned, I assume you mean, take one out of the three - not all three together with SAMe....?

And - do they require a prescription to attain?
I'm based in the UK.
 
I've had all the other blood work done - full pituitary tests - all hormone levels are within normal range. Synactin test, diabetes, celiac etc - all good.
A full range of gastric tests etc - all normal.
 
No, take everything I mentioned with the SAMe.

They are all over the counter.

Even if you are a good converter, I would still recommend these supplements. They are EXTREMELY effective, more so than any antidepressant, and they don't make you numb, and have sexual dysfunction. You can stay on the mirtazapine with them.
 
I've been having a look at that site.... MTHFR.net - which I thought initially was a spoof on motherfucker.net.

But it seems legit.

Regarding further researching the compounds you mentioned, is that where you attained information on them?

I would like to look further into their use and effect.
There are some user reviews on SAMe on drugs.com, but again - in comparison to mainstream anti-depressants - their use seems to be very sparse.

That being said, I'm all about reading and researching and trying these things.

Attainable at the chemist, or local health food store?
I guess I'm gonna go into town shortly and find out either way.
If there are any other links, papers or research articles you have handy, I would enjoy reading them also.
 
JohnBoy2000 said:
I've been having a look at that site.... MTHFR.net - which I thought initially was a spoof on motherfucker.net.

But it seems legit.

Regarding further researching the compounds you mentioned, is that where you attained information on them?

I would like to look further into their use and effect.
There are some user reviews on SAMe on drugs.com, but again - in comparison to mainstream anti-depressants - their use seems to be very sparse.

That being said, I'm all about reading and researching and trying these things.

Attainable at the chemist, or local health food store?
I guess I'm gonna go into town shortly and find out either way.
If there are any other links, papers or research articles you have handy, I would enjoy reading them also.
Click to expand...


Lol, a lot of people think it means motherfucker. :)

No, get them on Amazon.

It's because pills are pushed on people.

Read about methylation. Do in depth research on that. Not just into the supplements. I'll get links for you.
 
Here are some links on the methylation, they can explain it better than I can right now as I haven't slept since Friday and I am still having effects from the phenibut and baclofen I took the other night...

Here is a chart of the cycle:

http://www.autismpedia.org/wiki/images/d/da/Methylation-cycle.jpg

Here is a simplified version of the methylation cycle:

https://ihateticks.me/2014/10/06/methylation-for-dummies/

And here is one more link:

http://autismnti.com/images/Methylation_Pathway_Explained.pdf

EDIT: oh, and if you get methyl- b-12, you need to get sublingual, as it does not get absorbed orally.

I'm not saying to take these as a replacement. Take them in addition. They will help counter a lot of side effects and boost the efficacy fucking tremendously.
 
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l methylfolate is implicated in treatment response to ssris and can make treatment resistant people respond, the dose used with deplin was 7,5 and 15m combined with ssris, its alot more effective then same if im correct, b12 supplementation is a good idea but it wont be as significant therapeuticallu
 
theGirlWithBlueHair said:
Tricyclic have greater efficacy because of their diverse pharmacology: they are serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, as well as sodium channel inhibitors. They block calcium channels. They block the 5-HT 2A and 5-HT 2C receptors: Amitryptiline and doxepin, for example. The 5-HT 2C receptor is widely implicated in depression. Completed suicides in depressed patients have been shown to have more 5-HT 2C in their brain than non-depressed patients. They also activate sigma receptors, which has been show to be beneficial in depression. The sodium and calcium channel inhibition is beneficial and offers mood stabilizing properties similar to anticonvulsant medications.
Click to expand...

it depends on the type of depression, 5ht2c plays a big role in social dominance, and activation is actuallu helpfull for some people, dont generalise to easily, the causes of mental health are extreelu individual.
claiming they are more effective are absurd, it dpends wheter the individual has a favorable response, other ppl benefit from differened strategts like da agonists while they wont work for others.

According to that logic one ssri would be enough as a ssri would be "that" good, its more complicated then that
 
it showed (relatively) high-dose pramipexole alone may be as effective as fluoxetine in the treatment of MDD.
Click to expand...

Stuff like that doesn't sound appealing at all as fluoxetine is useless for depression in my opinion as are all SSRIs, SNRIs etc. At best they were mania-inducing for me which is clearly not what an antidepressant should do. I bet many tests done in lab that supposedly show whether there is an antidepressant activity or not give results that poorly correlate with the presence of antidepressant activity. For instance increased motor activity as opposed to lack of it is not really a sign of depression gone, right? Tricyclics are basically SNRIs/SSRIs with an even bigger side effects spectrum, perhaps they are effective for some people as they target many receptors, so they might as well target some that actually do play a role in depression. I'm not ever again touching anything that is supposed to be an antidepressant and decreasing libido at the same time. On amitriptyline I actually started talking to non-existing people who I was aware weren't there but still it made some sense at that time to talk to them.
 
SSRIs arent more effective then placebo in studies, however thats more like noise in the study, the placebo effect lasts about 6 months and ssris are reported to poop out after 5 years, due to their poor effectiveness docs try all sort of differened which boosts the effectiveness from 30% which is the same as placebo to 50% but thats what ive been tolled i didnt double check it.

they are weak shit, serotonin releasers like mdai are much more effective which alot less side effects, but then again sero isnt corrolated with depression unlike dopamine which has been shown to be majorly involved, theres bupropion but thats a nri releaser not a reuptake inhibitor with some affinity for da however for most ppl thats way to low to have any clinical effects.

the first ssri that should be tried is lexapro its the most efffective, works after 2 instead of 4 weeks and has the least side effects, its still weak crap but for ppl that respond to it it can work at a dose of 2,5mg where it occupies 50% of the transporter, the minimum for a clinical response with pretty much no side effects.
prozac helped me in soe ways due to its ellevation of allopregnenolone and fluvoxamine which acts on sigma1 restored my focus and togheter with viagra is the only thing working for premature ejaculation.
The therapeutic response to sero releasers for me is better alot but in diff ways.

the first ssris existed long before prozac, its a sndri actually the antihistamine chlorpromazine, i found it to be side effect free.

Tramadol is a sero releasing agent with a plethoria of other unique effects which makes it extremely effective for depression for a subgroup of ppl, ppl complain of the horrific withdrawal but if it really helps you then those guys need to get a grip and realise oyou can slowly taper down, rather then avoid it because it can have abuse issues, which makes it bad for therapeutic use, pharm companys avoid those chemicals and ppl allways avoid to stay away, well some ppl dont have many options, so lets focus instead on reducing the potential side effects rather then screaming running to your mummy because you took something weith withdrawal issues, or tolerance which can be prevented.
oh my
 
you must have been sensitive to the anticholinergic side effects, which prob rules hypercholinergic activity as a possible cause in your depression out, scopolamine works for like 90% of ppl that try it for depression with long lasting results.

i like that ketamine induces long lasting antidepressant effects rather then only when you take the stuff like ssris.
 
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