Mental Health Anti psycotics for schizo-affective disorder

[Chatative]

In my experience Aripiprazole (Abilify) is a great drug - it's pretty good at lowering prolactin levels due to the fact that it has some pretty unique qualities being a partial D2 and 5-HT1A agonist. Everyone responds differently to medications and unfortunately there is no way of knowing who will get what side effect and how severe that will be. Hyperprolactinemia has varying effects -some people struggle with sexual dysfunction, fatty tissue developing in the breasts (Gynaecomastia), milk production from the breasts (Galactorrhoeh) and a whole host of other symptoms but some people have high levels of prolactin and don't seem to suffer any adverse effects.

That said, Aripiprazole does seem to have a lower side effect profile and seems to be an effective treatment - I really hope it works for you.

That bolded part is essentially what it all boils down to. It's certainly helpful knowing the side effect profiles of different medications, or how well they are generally tolerated but in the end of the day, it comes down to how it affects each individual. There is almost no way of knowing without trying these medications.

I took Amispulpride & suffered quite bad sexual side effects, I assume because of elevated prolactin. However, when I was on Risperidone until recently, I did not even remotely suffer any similar problems despite it being notorious for it too like SixBuckets pointed out.

There were certainly other instances where I didn't react to medications in usual ways. On Olanzapine I didn't gain any weight & on Abilify I suffered from sedation.

Just found out, Monday, my prolactin levels are even higher than they were last time I went in to see my psychiatrist. She decided to prescribe abilify to hopefully bring the prolactin down. I was sitting there looking at her, thinking, "You had me on invega sustenna for a year! How did you not fucking anticipate this?"

Or maybe she did and she's just trying to make extra money with the abilify she prescribed.

I was on Abilfiy briefly.

The one thing to watch out for with Abilfiy is akathisia. I ended up having to switch medications because of it. There are various medications that can be used to alleviate it though should it crop up though.

Hopefully that won't be an issue & it'll be the right medication for you though!

 

[SixBuckets]

Totally agree with you here - don't get me wrong some psychiatrists are fantastic but unfortunately the majority either seem to be in the job for the wrong reasons or are completely burned out and don't care anymore. Lately I'm horrified about how little engagement most psychiatrists have with their patients full stop!

I think a lot of it is simply the silo phenomenon we see throughout medicine - specialists don't talk to each other and are extremely hesitant to even talk about anything outside of their speciality. Psychiatrists as a group seem to have gotten it into their heads that their only responsibility is the treatment of mental illness symptoms and that the physical stuff associated with psychiatric medicine is "someone else's" responsibility.

Glad to hear you're doing well, it's a really hard trade off sometimes and people can be stable for years and have the slightest tweak in medication and relapse badly and end up back at square one so I understand why you take that risk.

Thanks! You're totally right.

 

[nmwfl]

I know I sound like a broken record. Cannabinoids (CBD oil) work for Schizophrenia. They are all-natural and don't have any side-effects - other than helping people to sleep better. Your body already has an endocannabinoid system and already produces small amounts of cannabinoids to protect your nervous system, but not enough to keep up with the stresses of modern living.

http://www.medicaljane.com/2013/08/30/cannabidiol-cbd-may-reduce-psychotic-symptoms-of-schizophrenia/

http://www.medicaljane.com/2015/02/28/a-brief-overview-of-the-endocannabinoid-system/

I buy concentrated CBD oil. It's made from industrial hemp. It helps me with joint pain, peripheral neuropathy, stress, and sleep problems.
Other helpful items for nervous system health:
Fish oil (omega 3 fatty acids)
Niacin
Magnesium Citrate dissolved in water or juice
B complex vitamins
Reduce stress
Reduce caffeine
stay hydrated
Vitamin C (natural, not ascorbic acid)
Vitamin D3 and Sunshine
Healthy Diet
Exercise

Check out the thread on "Getting off Invega-Sustenna"

This is the best advice your going to get here! People posting with scare tactics that are bias saying "unless you want to end up in a nursing home" is bad advice. Antipsychotics aren't a long term solution and are very detrimental to your health. Unless your one of the lucky ones who doesn't experience side effects. Nevertheless I believe there's going to be a massive shift away from anti psychotics in the not so distant future.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I know I sound like a broken record. Cannabinoids (CBD oil) work for Schizophrenia. They are all-natural and don't have any side-effects - other than helping people to sleep better. Your body already has an endocannabinoid system and already produces small amounts of cannabinoids to protect your nervous system, but not enough to keep up with the stresses of modern living.

http://www.medicaljane.com/2013/08/30/cannabidiol-cbd-may-reduce-psychotic-symptoms-of-schizophrenia/

http://www.medicaljane.com/2015/02/28/a-brief-overview-of-the-endocannabinoid-system/

I buy concentrated CBD oil. It's made from industrial hemp. It helps me with joint pain, peripheral neuropathy, stress, and sleep problems.
Other helpful items for nervous system health:
Fish oil (omega 3 fatty acids)
Niacin
Magnesium Citrate dissolved in water or juice
B complex vitamins
Reduce stress
Reduce caffeine
stay hydrated
Vitamin C (natural, not ascorbic acid)
Vitamin D3 and Sunshine
Healthy Diet
Exercise

Check out the thread on "Getting off Invega-Sustenna"

Every drug has side effects. Neurons don't function in a vacuum.

As it does an endogenous opiate system, but that doesn't mean we should all become heroin junkies. It's like you're justifying drug use because the drug works?

So you're categorically stating that none of us produce a healthy amount of endocannabinoids naturally.

The conclusions of your source may be informative, but the source itself is not valid. It's like me citing jackdaniels.com as a source detailing the virtues of alcohol consumption.

Again, maybe your information on other things "for nervous system health" is plausible, but this time instead of posting a questionable source you simply don't post any.

 

[Hilary]

I think the problem here is that you are pro pharmaceutical solutions, as evidenced by some of your previous posts:

…From what I've read, antipsychotics can be effective for such disorders.

…Antipsychotics have a bad rep because they've sometimes been prescribed to people way too young, cause some troublesome side effects, and are very hard to mentally tolerate. But society would be in a much worse place without them. We'd have an unbelievably larger amount of people living in psychiatric hospitals for their whole lives….

With this type of moderator intervention, it's pointless for people like me to continue to post here.

 

[Chatative]

With this type of moderator intervention, it's pointless for people like me to continue to post here.

I wouldn't really call this "intervention". I believe Ho-Chi-Minh is just expressing his opinion; are we as moderators not allowed to do that too?

That's all we can do here, express our opinions & discuss the merits of different approaches.

As far as I can see, that's all that is going on.

 

[swisscurrie]

http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v2/n3/full/tp201215a.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924933809704407

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22716160

"These results support the idea that CBD may be a future therapeutic option in psychosis, in general and in schizophrenia, in particular."

Hilary speaks the truth. Cannabidiol has been proven to alleviate symptoms of not only psychosis but also anxiety and depressive disorders. As this forum focuses on Harm Reduction I dont feel its right advocating neuroleptics, especially as they have recently been proven to shrink the human brain. Brain shrinkage and obvious permanent brain damage are only a few of the "side effects" of that class of drug.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I think the problem here is that you are pro pharmaceutical solutions, as evidenced by some of your previous posts:

With this type of moderator intervention, it's pointless for people like me to continue to post here.

Sorry, didn't realize that a few news stories on a site centered around cannabis use holds more weight than the hundreds of millions of dollars and several years of trials (minimum) that goes into approving a single pharmaceutical medicine. Maybe you want to read the actual literature.

Intervention? As in, stating the scientific evidence? The pointlessness of your posts is solely by virtue of the weaknesses of your sources.

 

[Hilary]

I realize that deeply entrenched ideas don’t change readily – no matter how compelling the opposing argument. This is especially true when billions of dollars and entire industries are at stake (i.e. pharmaceutical industries).

One difference – Big pharma advertises. Marijuana and Industrial hemp producers do not (other than some on-line advertising for people who are searching). Pharma's spending on direct-to-consumer ad spend amounts to 4 to 5 billion dollars a year. Many drug companies spend twice as much on marketing their products as they do developing and researching them, resulting in huge profits.

The fact that drug companies pay out millions of dollars in lawsuits, and unsuspecting ‘patients’ kill themselves over side effects and withdrawal symptoms from highly addictive drugs is a mere inconvenience to drug manufacturers.

Lawsuits were filed against Janssen and Bayer Healthcare for introducing a medication without identifying a safe and effective reversal agent that doctors could have used to counteract the drugs effects. I personally think Invega Sustenna should fall into that same category. http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/drug-s...h-report-73740/#sthash.MvpLpzLS.hsBif5rV.dpuf

The likelihood of marijuana every being approved for clinical use by the FDA is nearly impossible due to the hundreds of compounds in marijuana and hemp that work together synergistically for their remarkable effectiveness for countless conditions. Other countries which are not hampered by the FDA are forging ahead.

You want better links to clinical research?
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/197/4/259
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v35/n3/abs/npp2009184a.html
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s0100-879x2006000400001&script=sci_arttext
http://cre.sagepub.com/content/17/1/21.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/009130579190386G
http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v2/n3/abs/tp201215a.html
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/early/2008/11/21/0269881108096519.short
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/20/5/683.short
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-009-0024-2

That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
It is not I who is discounting scientific evidence.

 

[Boku_]

I know I sound like a broken record. Cannabinoids (CBD oil) work for Schizophrenia. They are all-natural and don't have any side-effects - other than helping people to sleep better. Your body already has an endocannabinoid system and already produces small amounts of cannabinoids to protect your nervous system, but not enough to keep up with the stresses of modern living.


Check out the thread on "Getting off Invega-Sustenna"

To be honest i know completely nothing about using Cannabinoids (CBD oil) to treat schizo conditions but half the reason i'm on anti psychotics is that in my early childhood i experienced severe trauma and my mind locked these events away in my brain as repressed memories. Then in my early 20's i started smoking Cannabis regularly and at the start the Cannabis was a god send as smoking it didn't make me overweight compared to drinking beer and also helped me fall asleep quickly at night compared to if i didn't smoke weed. Unfortunately after a year and half of heavy cannabis use something just clicked in my brain, i lost the plot and i had my first psychosis. ever since then i've needed meds and if i have even a toke of joint i lose the plot.

My question is how does Cannabinoids (CBD oil) treat schizophrenia with out causing paranoid feelings in people who have had negative affect's due to Cannabis use?

If CBD oil could help me sleep as easily as what weed did before i got sick i would be all for it, it's just i can't believe a drug that caused me so much mental illness could actually help treat the long term symptoms of my mental illness.

 

[mb-909]

CBD (antipsychotic) is the counterpart of THC (psychotic) you might say. The problem with cannabis is that it contains up to 15% of THC and way less CBD, causing psychedelic experiences in some users, I guess. There are products (oil) out there containing only around 0,03 % of THC and 5% of CBD, which might help some, but in the end it is no wonder medicine.

EDIT: At the moment it is too expensive and low dosed... In a couple years it might be an alternative.

"CBD may have therapeutic potential for the treatment of psychosis following cannabis use, as well as schizophrenia, possibly with better tolerability than current antipsychotic treatments. CBD may also have anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective properties. Establishing the role of CBD and other CBD-based compounds in treating psychotic disorders will require further human research."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26311150
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26350340

 

[Hilary]

...My question is how does Cannabinoids (CBD oil) treat schizophrenia with out causing paranoid feelings in people who have had negative affect's due to Cannabis use?

If CBD oil could help me sleep as easily as what weed did before i got sick i would be all for it, it's just i can't believe a drug that caused me so much mental illness could actually help treat the long term symptoms of my mental illness.

I understand your feelings completely. I've seen the same thing happen to my son. For years I tried to get him to stop, even going as far as doing in-home urinalysis to try to curb his drug use. We threw away both drugs and paraphernalia that we found in the house many times. My son's first psychiatrist after his first psychotic break told me about the suspected link between marijuana and 'schizophrenia'. It was clear to me that the marijuana was causing his psychosis. However, this was all taking place about the same time as the discovery by research scientists in Israel of the of the endo-cannabanoid system in human beings (and all other living creatures).

It was quite an epiphany for me to discover the medicinal properties of marijuana, especially as it related to marijuana and mental health. My son absolutely cannot handle anti-psychotic medication. I started giving him CBD oil (from industrial hemp) against my husbands vehement opposition (at first). But there is a marked change in my son since he's been taking it. He's calmer, easier to talk to, and less anxious. Of course he's also not psychotic. I think that as long as he continues to take the CBD oil, he will continue to be ok. The only thing really holding him back right now is the residual effects of the invega sustenna. He was hoping to apply for disability because of the terrible side-effects from the drug, but according to the SS Office, he has to be unable to work for 12 months before he can hope to collect disability pay.

The clinical studies using CBD oil to treat mental illness used large doses (I think around 300mg a day for 4 weeks, if I remember correctly). But from what I've seen, 25 - 50mg are effective. There are also plenty of anecdoctal accounts on various websites about CBD for psychosis. But I think that the CBD didn't work in all cases. If you were to try it, I might suggest using it in addition to your current medication.

It may take a few days before noticing a diffence. The recommended dose on the bottle that I buy is 25mg. But there are no clinical studies using that dose. I started taking CBD oil also, and it has really helped with my quality of sleep. I used to get up 4 or 5 times a night. Now ususally only once.

The Mayo Clinic has published a 'dosing guide' for CBD to treat schizophrenia of from 40 - 1250 mg by the mouth for 4 weeks. (Yes - the Mayo Clinic)

If you're interested, and it is legal where you live, 'Seedsman' sells a strain of marijuana called "CBD Therapy" that has 0.3%THC and 5-8% CBD. It's the first strain of it's kind with seeds available for purchase to the public. But I'm sure, with all the hype about CBD, that other strains will soon follow.

 

[SixBuckets]

I realize that deeply entrenched ideas don’t change readily – no matter how compelling the opposing argument. This is especially true when billions of dollars and entire industries are at stake (i.e. pharmaceutical industries).

One difference – Big pharma advertises. Marijuana and Industrial hemp producers do not (other than some on-line advertising for people who are searching). Pharma's spending on direct-to-consumer ad spend amounts to 4 to 5 billion dollars a year. Many drug companies spend twice as much on marketing their products as they do developing and researching them, resulting in huge profits.

The fact that drug companies pay out millions of dollars in lawsuits, and unsuspecting ‘patients’ kill themselves over side effects and withdrawal symptoms from highly addictive drugs is a mere inconvenience to drug manufacturers.

Lawsuits were filed against Janssen and Bayer Healthcare for introducing a medication without identifying a safe and effective reversal agent that doctors could have used to counteract the drugs effects. I personally think Invega Sustenna should fall into that same category. http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/drug-s...h-report-73740/#sthash.MvpLpzLS.hsBif5rV.dpuf

The likelihood of marijuana every being approved for clinical use by the FDA is nearly impossible due to the hundreds of compounds in marijuana and hemp that work together synergistically for their remarkable effectiveness for countless conditions. Other countries which are not hampered by the FDA are forging ahead.

You want better links to clinical research?
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/197/4/259
http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v35/n3/abs/npp2009184a.html
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=s0100-879x2006000400001&script=sci_arttext
http://cre.sagepub.com/content/17/1/21.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/009130579190386G
http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v2/n3/abs/tp201215a.html
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/early/2008/11/21/0269881108096519.short
http://jop.sagepub.com/content/20/5/683.short
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00406-009-0024-2

That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
It is not I who is discounting scientific evidence.

Pharmaceutical companies don't engage in either direct-to-consumer advertising or prescriber sponsorship in Australia and we still have masses of people taking antipsychotic medication and reporting positive results.

We've also had our therapeutic goods administration just announce that they're submitting for scheduling of cannabis and cannabis derived products as prescription substances.

 

[Ozle]

What antipsychotic are you currently on? Maybe I missed it when skimming over parts of this thread, but I didn't see you mention it.

I honestly don't understand some of the bickering in this thread. As I understand it, cannabidiol has been experimentally proven to exert antipsychotic effects, although my gut feeling tells me there's a still lot more to be gained from carrying out further studies to elucidate the mechanisms through which it acts and in what kinds of cases it's most effective. All the more so since I'm now of the opinion that psychosis isn't a single, monolithic entity (as was assumed for much of the 20th century), or even properly a syndrome, but rather a collection of symptoms which are related but can be an result of a number of underlying causes.

I remember several articles being published about a CBD vaporiser a year or two ago. What became of that? Just as much as CBD in itself is fascinating, the idea of a vapable antipsychotic definitely seems...intriguing.

 

[Hilary]

Pharmaceutical companies don't engage in either direct-to-consumer advertising or prescriber sponsorship in Australia and we still have masses of people taking antipsychotic medication and reporting positive results.

We've also had our therapeutic goods administration just announce that they're submitting for scheduling of cannabis and cannabis derived products as prescription substances.

I think the United States and New Zealand are the only countries which allow advertising for prescription drugs.

I don't know a lot about Australia, but that's great news about the possibility of allowing cannabis products as prescribed substances. I hope that the U.S. won't be far behind.

 

[paranoid android]

I don't have Schizoaffective disorder but i do have Bipolar disorder with psychotic features and i find that some anti-psychotics do help it alot. Olanzapine has probably saved my life a few times in fact and i got zero side effects from that drug. Quetiapine also helps too both with the Mania and Depression but is probably more effective as a anti-depressant for me. Cannabis definitely helps to even out my moods for sure as well and it just stops me from being impulsive.

 

[Boku_]

I've been taking seroquel since 2008 mainly to help sleep . I was first on resperidone in 2008 but had trouble sleeping. Last June I had a episode and came off resperidone to start amisulpride. Prior to 2008 I was taking olzanpian (sorry about spelling wrong I'm on smart phone) and lithium for 7 years.

Lithium gave me a terrible tremor. I used to shake like anything on it. So glad I'm not taking it any more. No complaints about the other meds apart from weight gain. I'm always hungry I wish I could get prescribed Ritalin to curb my appetite LOL

I know I should avoid drinking beer but it's the only thing that takes the edge off seeing as I don't take benzo's unless I'm in hospital.

I think I drink in moderation for the most part. I had one beer today one beer yesterday etc.

Thanks for the info about cbd oil. I will talk to my GP about it seeing as medical cannabis may be legally available in my home state soon

 

[Boku_]

What antipsychotic are you currently on? Maybe I missed it when skimming over parts of this thread, but I didn't see you mention it.

.

I've been taking seroquel since 2008 mainly to help sleep . I was first on resperidone in 2008 but had trouble sleeping. Last June I had a episode and came off resperidone to start amisulpride. Prior to 2008 I was taking olzanpian (sorry about spelling wrong I'm on smart phone) and lithium for 7 years.

Lithium gave me a terrible tremor. I used to shake like anything on it. So glad I'm not taking it any more. No complaints about the other meds apart from weight gain. I'm always hungry I wish I could get prescribed Ritalin to curb my appetite LOL

I know I should avoid drinking beer but it's the only thing that takes the edge off seeing as I don't take benzo's unless I'm in hospital.

I think I drink in moderation for the most part. I had one beer today one beer yesterday etc.

Thanks for the info about cbd oil. I will talk to my GP about it seeing as medical cannabis may be legally available in my home state soon