Aniracetam discussion

[NeoLime]

I have some quick questions about Aniracetam:

First off, I would like to know if the Erowid article is correct that the onset of this being 60 days to 4 months?

Second, I had a rather good experience with Piracetam, How does Aniracetam compare? Is the potency exchange correct (5-10x potency). I am no longer piracetam and miss its sweet mind expanding subtleties.

Third, I would like to ask about the price/effectiveness ratio. If the onset is in fact 60 days to 4 months then the price far exceeds the effectiveness, probably. However, is it worth the $35 to get 60 caps of Aniracetam, which is approximately a months supply (2 a day). Or does it have an effect similar to Piracetam where dosages can taper out a bit and you can stay under the effects of Piracetam for relatively long periods of time on very small amounts.

I would very much appreciate serious discussion on this issue. I am trying to make an informed decision.

 

[rollingstoned!]

Aniracetam experience and thoughts

In April I bought some Aniracetam from some site in Colorado, USA. I think it was called AmericanNutrition.com or something. The bottle I received said Nutraceutics Rx.

After eagerly waiting for the Aniracetam, it finally came in. I took 1 capsule immediately (the capsules are 750 mg of Aniracetam). I didn't really notice anything at all. I didn't do anymore for a week or so. It should be noted that I had read that most racetams need to be supplemented with choline sources. I had choline bitartrate and alpha-gpc. I chose not to supplement at first.

Anyway the week went by and I was going to my grandmas to help restore and clean up her house. I decided to take 750 mg Aniracetam with 500 mg Choline Bitartrate. I was full of energy but started to feel slightly spaced out. After working for two hours, I decided to have a cigarette. Bad idea. At first the cigarette was very euphoric (more than usual) but by the time I got half way through I couldn't take it. I just didn't feel right. I felt stupid. I felt like I was on a drug, but not a good drug. It almost felt anti-cholinergenic (strangely enough for an alledged nootropic). I ended up sleeping for 4 hours, and the dreams I had during this 4 hour period weren't nice at all.

Again I stopped taking Aniracetam telling myself it was a waste of time. Well I finally got the balls to try it again, this time without any other drugs (even caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, etc.) This time I noticed it had a very profound nootropic effect, which was immediately disrupted by consumption of ANY amount of nicotine. I finally ruled out nicotine+aniracetam for good. I also tried lowering the dosage from 750 mg to around 100-200 mg. THIS WORKED WONDERS!! I simply opened the pills and poured some of the stuff into empty pills and took it with fish oil, eggs, milk (any fat), etc. With 100-200 mg of Aniracetam, I was able to drink coffee (I couldn't with 750 mg ani as ani seems to vastly potentiate caffeine), although I usually had just one cup of it.

For me, Aniracetam did seem to have anxiolytic effects, but they would only show up at least 2 or 3 hours after I took it. This leads me to believe that the anxiolytic effects are caused by Aniracetam's metabolites rather than Aniracetam itself. Marijuana smoking was more enjoyable as I didn't get dumbed down as much. I was able to carry on conversations, make eye contact, and talk to girls easier than before.

It should also be noted that most people report a "break in" period in which they are tired, moody, and dumb when they first start taking it. I can assure you that this does go away and all three of these effects get completely reversed.

I think in the end, Aniracetam needs to be taken in much smaller doses and, possibly, spread throughout the day. Nicotine and Aniracetam=extremely bad for me so take that into account if you're a smoker. Also, people say that you need to supplement with choline sources because the Aniracetam speeds up choline consumption. While this may be true (although I haven't really seen any evidence of this), I would think that supplementing with glutamate precursors would prove to have greater benefits as the main mechanism of action is modulation (neurons are primed to fire but not forced to fire, I believe) of the NMDA and AMPA receptors (which are both glutamate receptors). I supplement with 1 gram L-glutamine every day but only supplement choline sources every 3 days or so. This works best for me.

Anyways I find it works great now and I truly am happy I pushed through the shittiness at the beginning because it really is brighter on the other side.

 

[golden1]

First off, I would like to know if the Erowid article is correct that the onset of this being 60 days to 4 months?

I got the same brain fog the first 2 days I used aniracetam, then it all cleared up and started working wonderfully. The effects did get stronger each day though, so I would say that it does need time to have the maximum effect.

Second, I had a rather good experience with Piracetam, How does Aniracetam compare? Is the potency exchange correct (5-10x potency). I am no longer piracetam and miss its sweet mind expanding subtleties.

I started out with piracetam as well. Aniracetam has some subtle differences and improvements, most noticeably a more relaxed feeling, but the majority of the effects seem like an enhancement of piracetam's.

Third, I would like to ask about the price/effectiveness ratio.

If ordered in bulk powder, it is not expensive at all. Somewhat expensive compared to bulk piracetam, but thats
dirt cheap.

my experience(on and off over a year):

I notice dramatic increases in so many areas. Mood, perception of music, depth perception, color saturation/contrast, vision clarity, deep thinking, imagination/creativity, etc all get turned up a notch. The effects are very noticeable for me.

The change in sound/music perception is comparable to cannabis in that everything sounds fuller and more 3d. Harmonies and rhythms sound better and I feel more into the music. In fact, all of my best music(on fruity loops) was created on aniracetam. They just end up much better sounding.

The visual enhancements make everything look so much more beautiful, at least to me. Nature just becomes amazingly detailed art. I am not entirely sure if it actually effects depth perception, but it appears possible and from experience seems to be true. Imagine a pop up book compared to human depth perception. The amount of depths is clearly increased, allowing perception of more 3d looking objects and scenes. Aniracetam seems to increase this at least enough so that I can consciously notice it. The color enhancements are very obvious and easy to appreciate.

Aniracetam did seem to have anxiolytic effects, but they would only show up at least 2 or 3 hours after I took it

Same exact experience here, rather decent effect too.


I feel, after reading over this, that most will probably be doubtful of these effects because they seem almost too good to be true. The fact is, at least for me, that it improves my life in many ways and I believe enhances my consciousness.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I would think that supplementing with glutamate precursors would prove to have greater benefits as the main mechanism of action is modulation (neurons are primed to fire but not forced to fire, I believe) of the NMDA and AMPA receptors (which are both glutamate receptors). I supplement with 1 gram L-glutamine every day but only supplement choline sources every 3 days or so. This works best for me.

Anyways I find it works great now and I truly am happy I pushed through the shittiness at the beginning because it really is brighter on the other side.

The glutamine could cause excitotoxicity, leading to neuron damage/death, be warned. I'd recommend supplementing it with magnesium since it can prevent that excitotoxicity by allowing the NMDAR calcium channel to close before too much calcium gets in. Supplementing with calcium could just make the excitotoxic potential worse, but at the same time could also improve the effectiveness of the glutamate as it binds to NMDARs, and therefore the racetam. Supplementing with sodium and potassium will do the same for AMPARs. Also, glycine is a required co-agonist for NMDAR activation.

 

[overstoned]

I just started an aniracetam+choline bitartrate regimen last week, and it has already has a profound effect on my life, especially in school. For once in my life I am able to focus in class and take in all the information. Socializing is also much easier and I feel less worried about sounding stupid when I talk. My speech and typing are much more fluid and require less effort on my part.

For me, Aniracetam did seem to have anxiolytic effects, but they would only show up at least 2 or 3 hours after I took it. This leads me to believe that the anxiolytic effects are caused by Aniracetam's metabolites rather than Aniracetam itself.

Right you are! The name of this metabolite happens to be N-anisoyl-GABA!

Quite aniolytic sounding, eh?

It hasn't been found to increase amounts of GABA, but it could act similarly to GABA or maybe even bind to GABA receptors. The fact that it doesn't increase levels of GABA doesn't mean anything, though; benzos agonize GABA while at the same time decreasing GABA levels. This metabolite has, however, been shown to reduce kainate receptor sensitivity, which in turn improves the efficacy of GABA transmission. This, I believe, is the mechanism of action of the anxiolysis of aniracetam and its metabolites.

The glutamine could cause excitotoxicity, leading to neuron damage/death, be warned. I'd recommend supplementing it with magnesium since it can prevent that excitotoxicity by allowing the NMDAR calcium channel to close before too much calcium gets in. Supplementing with calcium could just make the excitotoxic potential worse, but at the same time could also improve the effectiveness of the glutamate as it binds to NMDARs, and therefore the racetam. Supplementing with sodium and potassium will do the same for AMPARs. Also, glycine is a required co-agonist for NMDAR activation.

Aniracetam blocks NMDA exitotoxicity. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1J-3YGTV3K-6W&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F14%2F1995&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1668974015&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f77b5390cd7192c1e5fa56b40049f8d5&searchtype=a

 

[/navarone/]

Another very interesting property of aniracetam is it elevated effect on AMPA receptors compared to other racetams. In fact it is very similar to the CX class of ampakine drugs.

Even simple 2-pyrrolidinone seems to have noticeable effects on AMPA receptors.

Read this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11834304

 

[PsychedelicPeptide]

Aniracetam is great to use before stressful events, but I much prefer to take piracetam on a consistent basis and save ani for an occasional day once a month or less where I know I will be put to a performance test where I know calm nerves will be needed.

I feel like the profound anti-anxiety effect doesn't last for more than that initial day of use when taken on a regular basis.

 

[DJHENRU]

In weirdly got some pain relief from it.
When I would take it, the chronic and neuropathic pain in my legs would subside becuase it felt as if my neves relaxed enough to push my knees together.
I never took it 60 days in a row so I found it minorly anxiolytic, but always when abusing amphetamine it deminished negative psychological effects (or atleast reseting me to only exaustion, not sleep deprived psychosis and anxiety)

 

[rebinator]

"The change in sound/music perception is comparable to cannabis in that everything sounds fuller and more 3d. Harmonies and rhythms sound better and I feel more into the music. In fact, all of my best music(on fruity loops) was created on aniracetam. They just end up much better sounding."

Amen, golden1! I too, have experienced thc, shroomy soundstage expansion with Aniracetam (a little goes a long way btw)

To the non-initiated critical listener, the best way to describe it would be

-wall-of-sound mixes become somewhat separated/demultiiplexed (all 40 tracks of that ping-ponged backup session lead are audible)
-the arrangements seem more tonal, as if one is hearing them the way the mixing engineer planned it.
-muddy-mixes/8-track (analog) portastudio mixes show the biggest improvement. Major-label radio-rock shows the least (predicably).
-the whole piece of whatever one is listening to has much more emotional impact and dynamic... almost orchestral in depth of field.

And the good news, is that you're not always running to the fridge or up until 8 am.

 

[DexterMeth]

I've been taking 4-6 grams of piracetam a day for almost a month. This thread has sold me on aniractem.

So is supplimenting with 400mg magnesium OXIDE (I weight ~175lbs) sufficient to prevent excitotocity? I have a feeling I'm misunderstanding some of this.

I have yet to purchase some choline bitartrate to stack with my piracetam.

 

[MeDieViL]

Ive been taking aniracetam for a couple of weeks now but i cant conclude yet what it exactly does as alot can be placebo; its modulation of AMPA is what interested me a downside however is that it likely accelerates tolerance to most drugs (atleast in rodents ethanol tolerance was accelerated).

 

[SerotonergicHaze]

I purchased a bottle of 60x 600mg Aniracetam a few weeks ago. I've been taking it with lecithin. I would dose around 2-4 capsules a day. The substance seems to be working at increasing written creativity and articulation, as well as memory recall. It synergises with Alcohol and Stimulants. Reducing the verbal ataxia and cognitive lapses from alcohol, and potentating Methylphenidate and Dexamphetamine, the former I take daily. I do wonder about tolerance, since it acts on glutermergic systems and NMDA is implicated in tolerance formation, from memory through Ca2+ influx.

The most worthwhile effect in my opinion, is it's anti-smoking effects. I was an occasional tobacco smoker, usually a few before bed, especially when on Dex, but now it not only has killed any enjoyment from tobacco, but also has killed all cravings. It brings back the nicotine malaise you get when you're a noob smoker.

It did cause a migraine type headache without a choline source, as widely reported, and in the first few days, it caused minor symptoms of excitability slightly resembling Amphetamania such as pressured speech, increased sensitivity to sound , irritability and hyperbolic thinking.

 

[DexterMeth]

After working for two hours, I decided to have a cigarette. Bad idea. At first the cigarette was very euphoric (more than usual) but by the time I got half way through I couldn't take it. I just didn't feel right. I felt stupid. I felt like I was on a drug, but not a good drug. It almost felt anti-cholinergenic (strangely enough for an alledged nootropic). I ended up sleeping for 4 hours, and the dreams I had during this 4 hour period weren't nice at all.

There are two main types of acetylcholine receptors (cholinergic receptors): muscarinic receptors, which are stimulated by muscarine and ACh, belong to a family of G proteins coupled receptors and are situated in parasympathetically innervated structures (e.g. the iris and ciliary body); and nicotine receptors, which are stimulated by nicotine and ACh, are ligand-gated receptors and are situated in striated muscles (e.g. the extraocular muscles).
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/anticholinergic

 

[Section813]

I was dipping snuff regularly before starting aniracetam. While on the aniracetam it makes me nauseated and dizzy. Needless to say Ive stopped using tobacco.

 

[golden1]

Yeah. Aniracetam and tobacco don't mix, it also, I believe made me really sensitive to tobacco even when off aniracetam, but I can't prove that just a speculation.

500-1500mg Aniracetam + 250-1000mg CDP-Choline + Green tea/coffee/caffeine = Great synergy. Especially if you add some weed in. That combo also works well when on stimulants, will bring back the effects sometimes better than they were at the peak hahah(or if you take it before methylone,mdma,4-fa, etc it will boost the calm euphoria A LOT). Just sharing. I've been experimenting with aniracetam and nootropics for about 4 years so I figure some people could benefit knowing what works best(well.. for me).

By the way, check out the wikipedia on CDP-choline(lots of very interesting mechanisms). I know offtopic, but my experiences proved reproducible for many people with aniracetam on this forum and others, so I figure why not mention that CDP-choline has an insanely positive impact on my subjective wellbeing when taken daily 250mg-500mg(clearer head, smoother overall feeling to being awake.. lol, calming/focusing, increased musical perception/enjoyment as well as visual, mood boost). I've tried almost all the available nootropics and CDP-choline, aniracetam, and piracetam are still the best of them. Hydergine was good too, but I never ordered more, so it's hard to compare since it was so long ago. edit: I would also say, thiamine @ 25mg+ and b6(specifically as p-5-p) @ 20mg+ are also both nootropics for me(I would say this is not from a deficiency, but a result of the extra vitamins).

Ive been taking aniracetam for a couple of weeks now but i cant conclude yet what it exactly does as alot can be placebo; its modulation of AMPA is what interested me a downside however is that it likely accelerates tolerance to most drugs (atleast in rodents ethanol tolerance was accelerated).

Just an idea, but it may have appeared to accelerate tolerance to ethanol, as it has a direct effect when taken with it(you maintain much more cognitive function, and do feel less drunk, but imo it is more fun..hah). I could see it accelerating tolerance to stimulants though possibly. Also, I find it so odd how some people can take it and not distinguish from placebo when I get a whole headspace from it.. ahah(I'm not doubting you at all btw, just saying the variance is strange/interesting).

 

[Section813]

@golden1

Have you taken the ani with standard choline or have you always used cdp-choline? If youve used both how do they compare?

I totally agree with you on the synergy with caffeine. Its a great combination.

 

[golden1]

I've taken it with no choline and been fine. I've taken with alpha-gpc/choline bitartrate/centrophenoxine(noticeable, but even alone it made things in my head and in class impossible not to laugh out loud at... during class and generally not give a shit about it like I was a maniac, lmao) the other two were not noticeable at all.. so I don't know whats up there.

 

[cryptix420]

noopept is just....so much stronger. I still love aniracetam though, for it is unique. Anxiolytic and makes life feels simpler and richer.

 

[golden1]

noopept is just....so much stronger. I still love aniracetam though, for it is unique. Anxiolytic and makes life feels simpler and richer.

thanks for reminding me that I have tons of noopept! I tried it before but something about the headspace felt off, that it was distracting to be on, but now taking it with aniracetam,cdp-choline,l-tryptophan(500mg-1g),p-5-p,thiamine, green tea, and 30mg of 4-fa feels so super human..

I can visualize geometric random visualizations extremely well and they evolve without effort, can picture landscapes, and pull myself inward so much that it is almost like experiencing whatever it is in real life or a dream. I've always been good at visualizing things, I also practice, I noticed aniracetam had this effect.. but with these extras.. not sure which(although I'm sure noopept is part of it. probably 4-fa, but I'm thinking not nessesarily). While in these short trance-like states of visualization/madeup perception it feels like my mind is so powerful... hard to describe, but the complexity and unconscious animation/continuation/accentuation/creativity of these perceptions and openness of the headspace make my brain feel like it's temporarily unlocking/activating parts of the brain that are less active or something..feels awesome..hahah. Oh, also the euphoria is about that of 150mg methylone, which for me is a decent amount; a very decent amount for only 30mg of 4-fa and greentea with some common-ish chemicals.

I think l-tryptophan + p-5-p + cdp-choline add a lot to aniracetam/noopept, makes them rather euphoric and empathogenic with only caffeine too..

I should mention I'm dependent on 3mg clonazepam, due to phenazepam's half-life and benzo induced-carelessness(fuck my life, worst way to get dependent on a shitty non-euphoric boring drug that only fucked you up because of it's stupid halflife... sorry rambling..), and that at first aniracetam was too much to handle and would precipitate w/d feelings and noopept just felt weird but now after using the above they make me more relaxed and help with any w/d. Also my experience with aniracetam on clonazepam is the same as when I had used it years earlier before I ever used benzos, the only difference is that it is not quite as crisp or quite as amazing.. as benzos seem to do to most things.

This combo makes it feel like the front of my brain is growing like a shady patch of grass that was uncovered by the sun's rays... or maybe it's just euphoria.. but it certainly only happened after I added noopept(aniracetam had it too I suppose, but not focused so much.. hard to compare how it makes one's brain feel haha).

 

[Epsilon Alpha]

Moving this to other drugs, ADD is more for the discussion of scholarly sources.